MBB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[WestCoastWhiner]

SaberApologist, the moves you mention by Oxy seem to be mandated balance of power moves that were a decade coming.  Oxy's field was no longer in the top half of the conference.  Its weight room is still in the bottom tier.  I have no doubt that the track is fine because the school would be crazy to ignore  historically how a quality track gets them 'fringe' benefits by being so close to downtown (ala Olympics use).  Without those moves Oxy would have worse fields than Pomona, soon to be Cal Lu, CMS & arguably Whittier.  Tough stuff to accept for the SCIAC's historical football heavyweight.  Pitzer & Scripps might start to rival you pretty soon, and all they have are some grassy fields.   Oxy's pool & gym are falling apart.  Your weight room is still rumored to be as good as La Verne's.  Student fitness center?  Welcome to something other schools grasped in the 90s.  I'd guarantee that something that seemingly insigificant has tipped the balance in favor of some other school for some applicants. 

I'm glad Oxy is starting to invest in its people & facilities.  But hurry up because you have an elite-level basketball coaching staff, good momentum in two big sports & your alums are coming out of the woodwork - an indication that people care.  Your window won't be open forever. 

And Wooster has a bigger endowment than Oxy?  Shocking.  What the heck have you guys been investing in?  Beach front real-estate in Arizona?  Back in OxyBob's day Oxy used to have a nice endowment. 

But I'm not arguing for new facilities.  Too big of a leap.  Plus, PomonaAlum brings up some great points, no SCIAC school will ever support a facility like Hope has.  But how about Oxy and other SCIAC schools at least find $25k in the annual budgets for their basketball programs.       

      

     

[tigersports]

To my mind, there are lots of reasons why SCIAC teams don't compete on a national level in football and basketball, and most of those have been expressed on these pages.

1.  There is virtually no coverage in the mainstream media.  I suspect that Linfield's and Whitworth's exploits at least get an article in the Portland and Spokane papers whereas here it only happens if the team never loses or never wins.  There is also no radio coverage of any teams other than UOR football (though CLU and Oxy do internet broadcasts  ).  I don't think this is anyone's "fault" as there are dozens of sporting events on a given weekend night in LA that have crowds of 300 or so.  (That said, the the SID's could do a better job of getting the word out.)

2.  There is a great deal of competition for the athlete here that is not quite good enough to play at the D-I level.  For football, there are about 30-40 Jucos around, and scholarships offered from APU.  For hoops, there are about 6-8 D-II schools around, 8 NAIA schools (that's 80 scholarships for non-DI players just in NAIA).

3.  The lack of coverage and location in a major metropolis also contributes to an apathy among students and administration that leads to a lack of an expectation of excellence in athletics which causes programs to "settle."

4.  Last, I'm not sure anyone outside of this board really cares about national recognition on the DIII level.   Most of the fans at the game and the less than ardent supporters don't get bent out of shape if their team doesn't compete at a high level.  Does anyone at Pomona, other than a few people, care that Kats has flamed out of most of the tournaments he's been in? 

In short, I think "commitment to athletics" is way down the list of culprits as to why the SCIAC doesn't compete nationally.

[The Roop]

Ahhhhhhhh. There speaks my close personal friend OxyBob. You knew I'd have to "give it back" at some point.

Did "your day" involve a loss in the 1980 Regionals to a team from the midwest by chance ??

[Sabretooth Tiger]

'SaberApologist?"

Geez, I thought that providing accurate information was something of use to folks who wish to banter . . . at least so that people can offer offer informed comment.

OxyBob . . . are you old enough to remember coach Lefler?

sabretooth

[Sagecock]

OxyB, your comment suggests that you buy the line that a liberal arts school has to lower its standards to compete nationally.  That excuse is nothing more than a subterfuge for deeper institutional issues.  Nobody else in DIII accepts it and you shouldn't either.  Williams, Wooster & Amherst are all higher ranked than Oxy and have a commitment to elite athletic programs.

I don't think you can dismiss the notion of standards entirely fromt eh picture however.  While there certainly are elite academic institutions that also have elite level athletic programs, there are only a limited number of athletes who can meet those standards.  Amherst and Williams do an excellent job of attracting many of those athletes, however, they have some advantages over SCIAC schools such as slots.  If you can guarentee a kid he's going to be admitted a week before that kid will hear from a SCIAC school it makes for a pretty tough decision.

I will admit there is a fundemental lack of committment to athletics at many of the SCIAC schools, however, I honestly the academic component plays a far greater role then you're giving it credit for.  Anecdotal evidence: Colin McNeil and Derek Turbin's first choice?  Pomona.  Did either one of them get in?  No.  Academics make a difference, to claim otherwise is ignoring the evidence.

[WestCoastWhiner]

Sage, does it feel good being in the female canine seat to Amherst & Williams?  Or, do you take the approach like Bowdoin & Swarthmore that what happens in athletics is insignificant?  I know that you wouldn't be posting here if the complete whipping that Amherst laid on the Hens at Oxy didn't sting.  Win a banner this year and you'll still ask Katz this summer, "Coach, congrats on another great year.  But what HAPPENED against Amherst???"  Let your feelings known that when in Rome, we have to act like Romans, not Beavers.  There is no nobility in spankings. 

Pomona's problem is that you have been blessed with too good of a coach.  His SCIAC success has lulled an already apathetic administration into believing that their system works and is fine.  No need for slots.  A couple of Admission wins now and then at Pomona, a couple here and there at Pitzer, and Kats is reloading with some banners.   

I think Pomona will eventually be forced to rethink its approach to this issue.  It won't be another perra feminino slap to Amherst, Williams, or some other top 10 competitor.  I think the change will be forced by some other SCIAC school deciding to really invest in their program.  Oxy keeps knocking on the door.  CMS has some ballers too.  One of those Admins is going to jump on the bandwagon.  Let Oxy or CMS have some real success in the Tourney, get great press about being elite liberal arts schools with serious students and student-athletes who are amongst the best in the country, and folks who never cared at Pomona will start to care. 

         

[OxyFan21]

I believe that Oxy is already beginning to get that "good" press by way of its football and basketball teams.  Though Oxy may not be on the academic level of Pomona, I don't think the school makes any apologies for who and what it is. 

It will always be difficult for small liberal arts colleges on the west coast to compete with the east coast/new england schools.  I believe that my brother (PomonaAlum) and I are the ONLY students ever to leave our prep school in Maryland and head west.

I have several friends who work in CA high schools and they seem to think that the trend is for top-notch west coast kids who want the liberal arts experience to head east to schools like Williams, Amherst, Bates, Bowdoin, etc.   

Being here in St. Louis now, it makes me wonder how a school like Wash U competes for those same students.  The campus here definitely has a distinct east coast vibe with a lot of NY/NJ kids.  Athletically at least, I have to believe that Wash U gets a few "slots", no?

A side note...Apparently, a new wireless scoreboard and shot clock system was approved by President Chan and will be installed shortly.  One step at a time.

[pomonaalum]

I read somewhere that Pomona was about the embark on a renovation of the Rains Center.  Not sure what it all entails.  To me, a nice facility, but on the sterile, institutional side.

I do know that it's a constant tug-of-war on between admissions and the athletic department to get kids into school.  Part of the problem at Pomona is the "success" of the school in terms of applicants, test scores, etc - and to be sure, it's a great institution.  However, this success on the surface may limit the institutional appetite for changing the formula to include a higher profile athletic program.  As long as the students and alumni are happy with the academics, there will be little push for change.

In terms of endowment, Pomona really lags its peer schools - there's really a lack of ability to "think big."  On the other end, Wash U recently embarked on a $1.5 billion fundraising campaign, which they completed early and went over the goal easily.

[scandihoovian]

Whiner has been plugging Hope's new facility so I went to their website to take a look.  Here's a link to a great panoramic picture from opening night:

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/announce8.html

It takes a while to fully load - but it's worth the wait.
There's some other good pictures in a "dedication photo gallery" as well.

FWIW the new Cal Lu facility will have a similar feel.  I don't think there's going to be seating behind the baskets - which would be fun - but the practice gym is in an entirely different room which eliminates the need for the huge curtain.

[David Collinge]

I mean, who wouldn't be jealous of such a fine facility? 

[dj_hyphen]

Whiner has been plugging Hope's new facility so I went to their website to take a look.  Here's a link to a great panoramic picture from opening night:

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/announce8.html

It takes a while to fully load - but it's worth the wait.
There's some other good pictures in a "dedication photo gallery" as well.

FWIW the new Cal Lu facility will have a similar feel.  I don't think there's going to be seating behind the baskets - which would be fun - but the practice gym is in an entirely different room which eliminates the need for the huge curtain.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT....that is dope as ****!  First off, tight picture...the 360 was great.  Secondly, look at the fan support...the only thing I've seen close to that in SCIAC is CMS/PP.  Third, that facility just looks great.  Some Oxy fan should get on the photoshop job and change all the "Hope"s to "Oxy"s and email it to the administration.  That's what they should strive for

[scandihoovian]

I agree, hyphen, the fan support is awesome.  Great student turnout and a lot of multi-generational community support.

After further exploring the Hope website I need to make a couple of corrections to me previous post.  Apparently Hope can seat upwards of 3,000 for basketball, so the sideline seating at the Cal Lu gym (my understanding is capacity will run about 2,000) will have fewer rows in addition to the aforementioned lack of seating behind the baskets.  Also the facility behind the curtain at Hope is not a practice gym but instead a somewhat dedicated volleyball venue.  I say somewhat because it likes like they can set up hoops there as well if needed.

I wonder what they're cooking up at Calvin?

[OxyFan21]

That is a pretty sweet picture.  DJ, you're right about photoshop, but what if we just sent the picture in as it is...wouldn't that make any administration drool over what could be?

I was looking for some people of color in the picture 

[WestCoastWhiner]

Funny thread here: http://d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=121 about overworked SIDs.  I have one thing to say to all of those SIDs, "Guys, send your resumes in to the SCIAC."  You will make less, but your 50 hour workweeks will be things of the past.  Try 5 hour work weeks.  And demanding bosses, productivity, attention to detail, fughit aBout it.  Just show up when you want.  Go to the pool, catch some rays, read a good book, relax a bit. 

 

[K.C.]

I'll start it here...Jordan Carlson (Cal Tech) for 1st Team!

15 pts. against P-P
24 pts. against CMS
21 pts. against La Verne
29 pts. against Oxy

The last person I remember getting on any level of All League from Cal Tech was Jonathan Bird who I believe was 2nd Team a few years ago.

I'd have to agree.  Any other opinions on mid-season all-conference teams? I think mine would be as follows:

Player of the (1/2)Year:  Sam Betty, OXY

1st Team:
Miles Taylor, CMS
John Parsons, CMS
David Knowles, PP
Ed Wexler-Baron, PP
Aaron Gibson, WC
Jordan Carlson, CTU

2nd Team:
Zach Phillips, OXY
Connor Whitman, OXY
Manny Maceira, CMS
Alex Lloyd, PP
Chad Acerboni, CLU
Amir Mazarei, UR

MVP would be Taylor if CMS had beaten Oxy.  Noticeably missing is Greenlee from La Verne - he's been having a down year.  Hopefully he can pick it up in the second half.