MBB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

I just wanted to say, it's great to see so much activity on this board and I hope you guys a) follow football and b) come back next November for basketball!

[TeeDub]

g.   Redlands W against Oxy unfortunately for all of us probably will keeps the system in tact.  Can someone please tell me why Coach Smith has Wooden status out there?

I'm pretty sure it has something to do with hime being the AD

Again, I hate when facts get in the way...Gary Smith is NOT the AD at Redlands...and the comparison to Wooden is more than likely a comparison to the man, not the coach.  And, very few can compare to Wooden on either level.

[tigersports]

Sagecock, I couldn't agree more about SCIAC officiating, a point that we make quite often on our broadcasts (subtly and otherwise).   It's part of the game like bad lights at Oxy or a short floor at CalLu.  My point really was that bad officiating evens out over a long haul, like bad hops in baseball, lucky bounces in football, etc.  In other words, it's a random distribution of ineptitude.  There are always anomalies in random distributions and last night's was one.  They called that crappy jump ball, missed a key goaltending call anc called everything when a man went to the hoop, regardless of contact, so credit PP for recognizing that.

[WestCoastWhiner]

PC, use your magic to get Oxy in and we'll do one better, we'll stay here all summer      8).

Sage, that imaginary conversation still has me on the ground.

OxyBob, I agree with you and love how you coined the Redlands's system as a travelling freak show. 

I'm going to revise my Betty opinion just based on one play alone.  When Lloyd went in to flush it on him last night and he blocked it with two hands and came down with the ball, I think he made a statement about the ongoing debate here this year about who is the better athlete.   Lloyd got the last laugh with the W but he'll be shaking his head about that play by Betty for some time.

[Gregory Sager]

I don't get why WCW is always demeaning Oxy with the "Big 3" talk, either. Look at how this league has turned out over the past four years. This season Oxy will finish in second place. Last season they finished third. The season before they finished fourth, but only a game out of second place and two games out of first. The season before that, of course, they had the best season of any SCIAC team in the D3 era, running the table in the league and making it all the way to the Elite Eight.

Here are the SCIAC's cumulative records over the past four seasons:

Oxy 41-14 (.745), 1 title
CMS 40-15 (.727), 1 title
PP 38-17 (.691), 2 titles
CLU 33-22 (.600)
LaV 25-30 (.455)
Whit 22-33 (.400)
Redl 21-34 (.382)
Ctech 0-55 (.000)

There may have been such a thing as the "Big 3" in the past, but the record over the past four years shows that such a label is now outmoded if it's being used to exclude Oxy. The Tigers are clearly among the SCIAC elite now.

[tigersports]

Amen, Sager.  I always bristled when I hear that Big 3 talk, especially given Oxy's recent run and CalLu's lack of anything for now 5 years.   I never brought myself to post on the issue, but thanks for saying what I thought.  WCW, I still love you bro' -- almost as much as I love Scali and Taylor.   

[sciacguru]

Amen, Sager.  I always bristled when I hear that Big 3 talk, especially given Oxy's recent run and CalLu's lack of anything for now 5 years. 

Really...a lack of anything for 5 yrs now??
OK
2001 - SCIAC champs - 12-2     Oxy @ 8-6
2002 - 12-2 (2nd to CMS 11-1) Oxy @ 9-5
2003 - 10-4 (2nd to Oxy) and ahead of CMS by 2 games and PP (6th) by 4 games
2004 - 10-4 (2nd to PP 11-3)   Oxy @ 9-5
2005 - 7-7                                Oxy @ 9-5
2006 - starting 4 sophs and 1 freshmen....one of which had any SCIAC experience.

With PP losing 4 starters, Whittier losing 6 seniors, Laverne losing 7 seniors that play, Oxy losing Phillips/Marvin, CMS losing Taylor/Parsons, CIT losing Carlson/Ivy....and Redlands well being Redlands.....I have a feeling you will be eating your words come the next few years.

[sciacguru]

All SCIAC predictions:
MVP - Taylor (dont be surprised as Co-MVP w/ Parsons)

1st Team
Betty - Oxy
Wex-Beron - PP
Parsons - CMS
Maceria - CMS
Greenlee - ULV
LLoyd - PP

2nd Team
Knowles - PP - (if no more room at 1st team)
Phillips - Oxy
Mazarei - Redlands
Whitman - Oxy
Carlson - CIT
one or the other with (Lepiashinski or Miller from CLU or Farlough from Whit)

[Stags4Life]

All SCIAC predictions:
MVP - Taylor

1st Team
Betty - Oxy
Wex-Beron - PP
Parsons - CMS
Maceria - CMS
Phillips - Oxy
Knowles - PP

2nd Team
Lloyd - PP
Greenlee - ULV
Mazarei - Redlands
Whitman - Oxy
Carlson - CIT
Lepiashinski - CLU

[Stags4Life]

MY PICKS(a little different)

All SCIAC predictions:
MVP - Taylor (dont be surprised as Co-MVP w/ Parsons)

1st Team
Betty - Oxy
Wex-Beron - PP
Parsons - CMS
Maceria - CMS
Phillips - Oxy
Knowles - PP

2nd Team
Lloyd - PP
Greenlee - ULV
Mazarei - Redlands
Whitman - Oxy
Carlson - CIT
Lepiashinski - CLU

[D O.C.]

What is the deal, people? Is it too much to read the front page before complaining??

Must be the smog.

[WestCoastWhiner]

Guru, thanks for beating me to the punch.  Also, if you are going to look at 4 years, why not look at 10, at 14.  Oxy, more than anyone, has knocked on the door of the Big 3 but year in and year out, since CLU joined the conference, this thing has been about the Big 3.  But as Sagers & PC know, I say that partly tongue in cheek because before Oxy's '03 run, the Big 3 is really a laughable concept outside of the southland.  The more appropriate moniker would be 'the Big Nada'.   Which, by default, would make everyone else 'the Nada de Nada'. 

But there is hope that the times are changing (notably Oxy trying to turn this conference national rep on its head) and I'm looking for the Stags to bring back a pair of wins from the Tourney this year.  Won't be easy and our conference's historical failings should make them a HUGE underdog no matter who they play.  CMS plays well in that position and just might be able to pull it off.        

[scandihoovian]

sciacguru:

tigersports said: "Amen, Sager.  I always bristled when I hear that Big 3 talk, especially given Oxy's recent run and CalLu's lack of anything for now 5 years."

You replied: "Really...a lack of anything for 5 yrs now??"

Answer: Yes, CLU hasn't won the conference since the 2000-2001 season. That was six years ago.

You're also probably one of those people who think the new millenium started in 2000.

Not to detract from Oxy's success, or to make an argument for a Big Three instead of Big Four.  But 2 tough seasons in a row does not mean that the Kingsmen haven't done anything for 5 years now.

No, they may not have been championship seasons, but there have been plenty of years when those records would have been good enough for at least a share of the conference title.

Regardless of when you start the millenium, Cal Lu has a tradition of success in the SCIAC.  I like their chances next year, especially if Minney is back in the mix.

That said, I hope the committee sneaks the Tigers in...

[sciacguru]

Ok Oxy Bob...since you like to insult the intelligence of the CLU folks.  Here's a math question for you that should be easy.

Since joining the league in 91 - CLU has won 4 titles....and your beloved Oxy - 1.
So CLU wins the title 1 every 3.75 years
Oxy wins the title every...uhhh...15 years

Oh, ok, so you will come back that it was Dunlap that won the titles and not Rider.....I believe this is Rider's 12 or 13th year and has been 1st or 2nd for 10 of those years.
Newhall has been there how long???  18 or 19 and hmmmmmmmm won 1 title and how many 2nd places???  I believe none...oops...I forgot about this year 

So is Oxy still considered apart of the elite?  Currently yes.....Historically.....Well, you do the math.

[Gregory Sager]

Guru, thanks for beating me to the punch.  Also, if you are going to look at 4 years, why not look at 10, at 14.

Ok Oxy Bob...since you like to insult the intelligence of the CLU folks. Here's a math question for you that should be easy.

Since joining the league in 91 - CLU has won 4 titles....and your beloved Oxy - 1.
So CLU wins the title 1 every 3.75 years
Oxy wins the title every...uhhh...15 years

Oh, ok, so you will come back that it was Dunlap that won the titles and not Rider.....I believe this is Rider's 12 or 13th year and has been 1st or 2nd for 10 of those years.
Newhall has been there how long??? 18 or 19 and hmmmmmmmm won 1 title and how many 2nd places??? I believe none...oops...I forgot about this year

So is Oxy still considered apart of the elite? Currently yes.....Historically.....Well, you do the math.

You can draw the line anywhere you like, but the further back you draw it the less applicable it becomes to the here-and-now, because you end up diluting the present and the recent past. WCW and Guru, do you really think that 1996 is as relevant to the current power structure of the SCIAC as is 2006? Or that 1994 is as relevant as 2004?

Four-year increments tend to be good indicators of where a program is in the present, because four years is the span of a student-athlete's career. And all I'm concerned with here is the present ... and in the present, Oxy is very much a part of the Big 3, or the Big 4, or whatever Big you want to construct in order to define hegemony within the SCIAC.