MBB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[1992]

So Tigersports?

A group of African-Americans makes a place ghetto?

Or a group without a high number of African-Americans makes it not ghetto?

This is what "grads and fans of these fine institutions are accustomed".

Good thing you don't represent us all.

All I can say Tigersports, is "wow".

[scandihoovian]

Thought the board might be interested in an update on the facilities at Cal Lu.  The floors are going in and other finish work is being completed.  They've updated the photo gallery online:

http://www.callutheran.edu/about/watch_clu_grow.php

The main competition gym is the one without windows on the upper level (it has ceiling mounted volleyball apparatus in case you're trying to figure out what that is on the ceiling, I'd never seen that before - they'll be using the stanchion style hoops for games).  The practice gym is the one with the windows.  The one other room that's pictured is the weight room/fitness center.

[diehardfan]

Thought the board might be interested in an update on the facilities at Cal Lu.  The floors are going in and other finish work is being completed.  They've updated the photo gallery online:

http://www.callutheran.edu/about/watch_clu_grow.php

The main competition gym is the one without windows on the upper level (it has ceiling mounted volleyball apparatus in case you're trying to figure out what that is on the ceiling, I'd never seen that before - they'll be using the stanchion style hoops for games).  The practice gym is the one with the windows.  The one other room that's pictured is the weight room/fitness center.

Nice... I'm enjoying watching the construction guys wander around. 

It looks like it will be lovely... though I don't know what the old gym looks like either. 

[scandihoovian]

Thanks, DieHard-

The old gym is literally a converted corrugated metal WWII era airplane hanger with a short floor (full of dead spots) low ceiling and interesting lighting.

Great home court advantage 

[diehardfan]

Sounds like it! 

The guys look busier right now, trucks driving around and everything... still no visible signs of a building yet though. 

[scandihoovian]

Oh - I just realized that what you're looking at now is the pool construction site.  Scroll down the page and they have several pictures posted that show the interior and exterior of the new sports and fitness center.  The exterior is basically finished and they're putting the finishing touches on the interior.  It will be open for business at the start of the 2006-2007 academic year.

[diehardfan]

Oh - I just realized that what you're looking at now is the pool construction site.  Scroll down the page and they have several pictures posted that show the interior and exterior of the new sports and fitness center.  The exterior is basically finished and they're putting the finishing touches on the interior.  It will be open for business at the start of the 2006-2007 academic year.

well what do you know... 

[tigersports]

My message was aimed at what I perceived to be a pejorative reference to the area around Oxy, which is rich in ethnic diversity but is not by any definition -- whether a group of impoverished African-Americans (which is by far the most common usage of the name) or just an impoverished area generally -- a "ghetto."  I obviously took the comment to mean the former.   My only point was to say that the comment showed a lack of understanding of the area -- it was definitely not to demonstrate that Eagle Rock had very few African-Americans in the neighborhood or that this was a good thing.   My apologies to anyone who took it any other way.  My "discourse" comment was aimed, again, at what I thought was a cheap shot and something that didn't belong on the board -- a board that I participate in because of its spirited yet high-minded discourse.  I'd be happy to answer any public or private messages to discuss further if need be, but I think this clarifies what I said and meant.

[diehardfan]

Actually, it is the latter, rather than the former.

It is not unusual for people to think what you said. However, what was stated, and is still being affirmed by you, is intrinsically offensive, because it is simply not the overarching case in the US. The statement is not fair to African-Americans themselves, considering the large percent of them who are sucessful financially, and who would improve the economic base around Oxy by moving in. It's also not fair to the Hispanic, White, and Asian populations that are living in terrible "ghetto" like conditions and who are passed over due to the lack of public understanding about the poverty, crime, and gang issues they face.

Personally, I still think of the tragic oppression of Jewish people in Europe during the reign of Hitler when I hear the term "ghetto", and the corresponding lack of response by the Americans of the time due to their own racism toward Jewish people....  And it actually bothers me that the term is now being used to describe something that is terrible to live in, but much, much less awful by degree compared to the forced systematic oppression of an entire people group.

But I guess that's just me.

[Mr. Ypsi]

whether a group of impoverished African-Americans (which is by far the most common usage of the name) or just an impoverished area generally -- a "ghetto." 

Actually, it is the latter, rather than the former.

It is not unusual for people to think what you said. However, what was stated, and is still being affirmed by you, is intrinsically offensive, because it is simply not the overarching case in the US. The statement is not fair to African-Americans themselves, considering the large percent of them who are sucessful financially, and who would improve the economic base around Oxy by moving in. It's also not fair to the Hispanic, White, and Asian populations that are living in terrible "ghetto" like conditions and who are passed over due to the lack of public understanding about the poverty, crime, and gang issues they face.

Personally, I still think of the tragic oppression of Jewish people in Europe during the reign of Hitler when I hear the term "ghetto", and the corresponding lack of response by the Americans of the time due to their own racism toward Jewish people....  And it actually bothers me that the term is now being used to describe something that is terrible to live in, but much, much less awful by degree compared to the forced systematic oppression of an entire people group.

But I guess that's just me.

'Alice',

While I agree with the gist of your post, I'll (much to my surprise!) have to stick up for what tigersports directly said.  I'm pretty sure that he is right that it is the former, not the latter.

In America, 'ghetto' seems to be reserved for poor blacks.  Barrio is for poor Hispanics.  Poor Asians (regardless of nationality) are Chinatowns.  Poor whites seem to go by a variety of pejoratives: slums, wrong side of the tracks, hillbillies, etc.  I don't recall many references (whether media or in person) of impoverished communities which were predominantly non-black being referred to as ghettos.

Of course, that in itself may be a reflection of racism.

[Pat Coleman]

Ooof...

I'm not sure any good can come from a discussion of stereotypical names for places poor people of specific ethnic backgrounds live. This can only go badly.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Pat,

I fully understand where you're coming from (and also understand the risks), but I'm not sure that an HONEST discussion of where things are (keeping in mind how we wish things would be) is ever a negative.

Call me a cock-eyed opimist....

[diehardfan]

One problem is that it's common, yes, if it is in fact common. But the more immediate problem is that he thinks it, and thinks it is okay to say it. You just basically told him that it was, because you also think it's common, and in most people's minds, common tends to equal okay. There is good in admitting that a situation is the way it so. But, just because you can validate that someone else thinks the same way as you doesn't make what you think right.

My original statement still stands.

Incidentally... http://www.webster.com/dictionary/ghetto

No racial group specified in the modern definition. Just an FYI.

America is a dream.
The poet says it was promises.
The people say it is promises-that will come true.
The people do not always say things out loud,
Nor write them down on paper.
The people often hold
Great thoughts in their deepest hearts
And sometimes only blunderingly express them,
Haltingly and stumblingly say them,
And faultily put them into practice.
The people do not always understand each other.
But there is, somewhere there,
Always the trying to understand,
And the trying to say,
"You are a man. Together we are building our land."
.... KEEP YOUR HAND ON THE PLOW! HOLD ON!
- Langston Hughes (one of my favorite African-American poets), "Freedom's Plow"

http://www.poemhunter.com/p/m/poem.asp?poet=6691&poem=32570

Yeah.

[Mr. Ypsi]

As you expressed on the board (and I expressed to you privately), I believe his original statement was reprehensible.  But I believe his latest statement (for better or for worse) is correct.

That IS the common usage of the word (whatever implications that may or may not have).  And I disagree that common = good.  Overwhelming majorities once felt that either blacks or women voting, or blacks and whites sharing the same schools, were absurd ideas - I doubt you could find many people today thinking these were good ideas!  No INTELLIGENT person thinks that ideas are good JUST because they are common (especially after the first paragraph, I doubt that tigersports is under any delusions that I have ratified his original statement!).

But I am also of the opinion that ignoring the realities of where things are is a real hindrance to getting to where we think they ought to be.  Where this country is right now (IMO, but also based on polling data and LOTS of media reading) is that 'ghettos' are places where lots of poor African-Americans live.  If the majority are not African-American, it has some other name.

[OxyFan21]

I'm not sure that I want to get involved in this discussion as I agree with Pat that not much good can come of this.

I will say, however, that I honestly do not think TigerSports meant to ruffle anybody's feathers from his statement(s).  Having listened to his broadcasts for many years and also having corresponded with him privately over email, I don't think he meant any harm.   

Of course, any statement (public or private) can and often will have unforseen and unintended consequences.

I loved my experience in Eagle Rock and would not want to have lived anywhere else during my time in Southern CA.  It's my slice of L.A., and all of my memories originate from "The Rock."