MBB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[old_hooper]

DIIIgetto, you do make good points.  The problem as you well know the SCIAC is the only D3 show within 700 or 800 miles.  It would be great to see one of the schools with the great facility to have its own preseason invitational that brings in 16 teams from D3 around the country and have a tournament.  The east coast teams would love to come to CA in Dec or Jan.  This could be an annual event that would not only be good for the SCIAC but also D3 that would bring answers to the team/talent desparity that is presumed by the critics of D3 basketball.

[David Collinge]

I guess I don't understand who you want to impress, ghetto.  It's probably true that I am in the 99.9th percentile of D3/NAIA knowledge in the country, but that's only because 98% of the country is at knowledge level zero, and nothing a SCIAC team does is likely to change that. 

If you're looking at national respect, and you limit yourself to people who have the least idea who Westmont or Occidental or Wooster are in the first place, there's basically two target audiences: those in the know, like Pat, Titan Q, and the other poll voters, and the general hoi polloi in these chat rooms.  While it may be true that the rank and file chatroom denizens would be more impressed with a victory over Wooster than one over Westmont, I'm not sure you should care what they think.  Most of them are just college students that are only interested in what happens to their team and maybe their conference.  On the other hand, the cognoscenti are definitely as impressed with good performances against GSAC teams as against ranked D3 teams.

If you're looking for local respect, first I'd suggest that this whole conversation shows that the SCIAC posters know all about the GSAC and are impressed when a SCIAC team puts up a good game against one.  I would also suggest that CMS vs. Westmont is roughly twice as likely to draw media attention as Pomona vs. Wooster (although I recognize that 2 x 0 = 0).  I don't recall reading anything in the Times about Oxy's victory over Amherst last year.

You're looking at a very small target audience when you try to improve your national reputation.  The very best thing you can do in that regard is win in the NCAA tournament, and playing Biola may be more effective towards that goal than playing Johns Hopkins.  Short of that, if you play and beat tough opponents you'll impress the people you want/need to impress, and it doesn't matter (much) to them if those tough opponents are NCAA D3 or NAIA D1.

[DIIIghetto]

Old_hopp, that is a great suggestion.  Maybe with Cal Lu's new facility they will step to the plate and try to bring in some DIII horses.  Pomona could do the same.  Actually, a nice facility is helpful but we probably need more is some corporate/booster sponsorship so we can continue to offer something enticing to schools we want out here. 

Collinge, with a comment like  "[t]very best thing you can do in that regard is win in the NCAA tournament" I have to move you down a couple of points on the DIII knowledge scale.  Your patronage, nonetheless, is appreciated. You've missed a fair amout of the debate here, but we had our conference champ last year, be sent to the runner up to play the first round game last year.  It is a sore point for Stag fans, who had a heck of a conference run last year and a non-conference schedule that most SCIAC teams stick with (that is, a few good GSAC games, a couple of DIII snowbirds, and your usual easy Ws against the west coast christian schools).  Oxy, on the other hand, had their usual D1 L, coupled with the GSAC game and the Ws against the religious schools, but they brought in two tough DIII opponents to their tournament and got Ws.

Oxy got the bid, the home game and the W against the Stags.  CMS was so upset that it went out and ducked Wooster, Williams, Mississippi College, Hopkins, St. Thomas and UPS (granted, UPS may have ducked them :-)).  I don't think I have ever seen so many good DIII teams show up in the southland for games. 

Fighting to get the SCIAC's big 3, CMS, PP & CLU, to think beyond the fishbowl and to the national scene has been a challege.  I'll bet CMS will start to step up next year on these games, like PP did this year.  They clearly have the resources to.  Nobody really cares at any of these campuses either way, and that is a problem, although granted, not unique at DIII institutions.  My view is that taking whippings to schools in your academic comp set is more likely to rattle feathers in an apathetic admin than taking whippings from Azuza Pacific or Concordia, which we have been doing for years. 

And we definitely need to rattle some institutional feathers to do what you suggest, "win in the NCAA tournament."  While at least someone at Williams, Amherst and Wooster think that athletic goal is within reach, I'm not sure it every comes up in Hersey Park West, Claremont or Thousand Oaks.   

[scandihoovian]

Since we have a number of visiting cognoscenti in the room, I was just wondering if CLU's win over Messiah, last year's MACC co-champ, means anything on the national scene.

The write up on the CLU website makes it sound like the Kingsmen played some of their best ball of the season during the second half.

And Bob, you may be of the SCIAC hoi polloi - but if so you are their modern day Voltaire 

[David Collinge]

Thanks for the history lesson, ghetto.  It might interest you to know that I was in LA most of last season and attended a bunch of games at Oxy and Cal Tech last year, and was fully aware of what happened at the end of the year.  I've been following SCIAC ball to one degree or another (and posting in this room) since Oxy's "Salem Pavers" run several years ago (in fact, I attended the Aurora playoff game.)  That Oxy playoff run did more for the credibility of the conference outside the Southland than any holiday tournaments could ever have done; it's too bad the conference hasn't been able to build on that momentum.

Your insights on making the colleges' administrations think like champions are interesting, and something I'd not considered.  Thanks. 

[DIIIghetto]

DC, I just moved you back up on the scale.  Between watching games at Westmont, Cal tech & Oxy, I'm not sure whether you are a parent, coach, or fan, but you definitely fall in there as someone who has seen some good small school hoops (CT excluded).  You write so well, what can we do to get you to write up some of these games?  I'm not sure the SID position at any SCIAC school is anything other than a PT, volunteer position.   OB and I will treat you to a beer and a burrito in Hersey Park West, a burger in Pasadena, some wings in Claremont, or as many double-doubles as you can eat!

[David Collinge]

Don't hate on the Beavers!     I loved going over to Pasadena to watch them play.  I have a lot of admiration for those student-athletes, and I hope they take down Bard and get off the schneid.

Thanks for the offer, but I'm spending the winter in Ohio and don't expect to darken any SCIAC doors this season.  As much as I like double-doubles (monster style), I'll have to settle for fried Trail bologna sandwiches this season. 

[Gray Fox]

Old Hooper,

Good Idea!  All eight SCIAC teams could play if they wanted.  They could get eight other top teams from various regions.  This might even get some ink in the Times. (Might as well dream Big).

[WLCALUM83]

Donald Fagen and Walter Becker will surely not be taking the Wolverine up to Annandale after this loss.

This poster doesn't think they'll be playing "Time Out of Mind" for that squad, either. 

[Raptormania!]

Congratulations, Cal Tech, on breaking through. I've seen the other side of that, and it's a spectacular feeling to come up with the victory.

[buck14]

Robert Morris and OXY was a very competitive game. Both teams had the streaks of amazing shooting. OXY just outplayed RMC in the final 2 minutes. The 7 players RMC has is the roster for the rest of the season, but they can compete with a lot of teams.

[pineconefan]

Congrats to Coach Dow and Caltech for last night's win.  Heres to hoping for a SCIAC win or two to go with it this year.

[dawg gone it]

Congrats to Cal Tech...I was on the losing end of one of "those streaks" at a d3 school for one year and its no fun.  Way to go Beavers.....next the SCIAC???

[OxyFan21]

Cal Tech on the front page of D3hoops.com...and then I navigate to Yahoo.com and find this link as the Featured news story! 

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news?slug=ap-caltechwins&prov=ap&type=lgns



The SCIAC gets some national print.  Great job Beavers!

[Gray Fox]

and Coach Dow emptied his bench.

This may be even better than the win itself.

We need to get everyone involved to get a woman on Mars.