MBB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Titan Q]

On the topic of travel, Illinois Wesleyan is scheduled to play at Occidental next season, so looking forward to meeting some of the fine Oxy posters.  My Titans could be starting 4 or 5 freshmen next year, so hoops may be rough....but  I will enjoy the weather!

[Sabretooth Tiger]

As Brian Newhall noted in the radio address linked by OB, Oxy's extra $$ goes to hiring coaches.  As for those of you who wonder why Oxy won't spend the money to go to the NWC . . . please read the posts and listen to Brian:

Oxy raises money by going to play the likes of Cal Poly SLO, Utah State, UTEP, UNLV, etc.

The boys get to play against big time programs, the trip is paid for and Oxy makes some money.

That explains the budget . . . and tell me how Oxy is "ducking" the NWC when instead they're playing Utah State or UNLV?

Geesh, pay attention.

And . . . as the program meets w/ success, alumni giving improves.

[diehardfan]

As Brian Newhall noted in the radio address linked by OB, Oxy's extra $$ goes to hiring coaches.  As for those of you who wonder why Oxy won't spend the money to go to the NWC . . . please read the posts and listen to Brian:

Oxy raises money by going to play the likes of Cal Poly SLO, Utah State, UTEP, UNLV, etc.

The boys get to play against big time programs, the trip is paid for and Oxy makes some money.

That explains the budget . . . and tell me how Oxy is "ducking" the NWC when instead they're playing Utah State or UNLV?

Geesh, pay attention.

And . . . as the program meets w/ success, alumni giving improves.

I don't have a problem with Oxy playing higher division schools if they need it to raise funds at all, though I do think that it hurts them when there are less regional wins/losses for committees to look at come playoff time... especially in regards to seeding/hosting.

Coaching salaries aren't included in those expenditure numbers, obviously. So that doesn't explain where the money goes. But as someone who is generally so cordial and affable as yourself is apparently getting offended by my posts, I'll stop with the prodding.... sorry!

[pineconefan]

Tooth you said - "Oxy raises money by going to play the likes of Cal Poly SLO, Utah State, UTEP, UNLV"

No one debates that, but those are only one, MAYBE two, games a year.  How does that explain never traveling for regional games in the other eight non-conference dates?

[Sabretooth Tiger]

DHF,

I was not responding to you . . . please do not take any offense . . . my response is directed to our friends from the cold, wet and dark northwest who are desparate need of sunshine and illumination . . .

But . . . one note, Brian in his interview referenced the impact of fundraising on his ability to staff.  Now that may be a result of being able to shift the use of resources, but the continued success of the programs and additional revenues raised has permitted him to expand his staff.

cheers,

tooth

[Sabretooth Tiger]

Tooth you said - "Oxy raises money by going to play the likes of Cal Poly SLO, Utah State, UTEP, UNLV"

No one debates that, but those are only one, MAYBE two, games a year.  How does that explain never traveling for regional games in the other eight non-conference dates?

You know, I can ask him . . . but it seems to me that there have been some pretty good DIII teams coming through SoCal the past few years from far afield . . . I don't think it's like football with long term reciprocal travel agreements (home/away).

Rather, I think that schools like Amherst, Williams, St. Thomas, Concordia-Wisconsin, Trinity (CT), Robert Morris, etc. would rather come to SoCal in the winter than vice-versa. So if the Tigers can host good DIII teams and use travel dates to raise money and play DI programs . . . I say "why not?"

[pineconefan]

Tooth, you make a good point about schools coming into SoCal (though I was talking mostly about regional contests, since those are the ones that factor most into postseason).

But I think your point also supports my arguement that its Oxy's (coaching staff/administration) choice not to travel.   Rather than they can't.

[pineconefan]

So,

For those of you who have seen both, does Caltech have a real chance to beat ULV tomorrow night and end decades of SCIAC losses?  I know they have a couple of actual players on the team, but is that enough for a SCIAC win.

And will any of you interested SCIAC observers make your way to the Caltech gym just for the opportunity of seeing history?

Just wondering, since the outcome could have an impact on Whitworth's potential SOSI 

[Sabretooth Tiger]

Hmmm . . . Wed night, travel to Caltech or to Oxy . . . ?

Neither, will head to Muir Field North to coach 7 year old soccer players, oh well, I look forward to the eyewitness reports . . . GO TIGERS, BEAT THE TFS!  GO BEAVERS, END THE STREAK!

On another (and IMHO sad) note, I see that Dawg Gone It has gone to poster heaven, having apparently become a dearly departed . . .

I know that he created some strong reactions on the board (OB, you there?) and pushed some buttons . . . but I have to say that I have now met the man face to face in a professional setting, and he's a good guy.  Moreover, while I didn't always agree w/ his postings, I think he helped bring the football boards alive last summer and continued to "stimulate discussion" here and on the baseball boards.

I, for one, will miss his postings and hope that he considers yet another comeback . . . and if he does, beg for restraint from his adversaries.

cheers DGI, wherever you are . . .

tooth

[David Collinge]

Here is the breakdown on the NWC and SCIAC in terms of Operating Expenses:

SCIAC:
$44,028-Oxy
$36,175-Claremont
$23,975-Redlands
$22,000-Chapman
$16,262-Cal Lu
$14,507-LaVerne
$14,431-Pamona
$10,400-Whittier

When did Chapman replace Cal Tech in the SCIAC? 

Seriously, I'd be interested to know what Cal Tech spends on hoops.  Talk about a high cost per win! 

[DIIIghetto]

Appreciate everyone stopping by.  5 years ago if we had tried to get someone from the NWC come in here they would have dissmissed us like h.s. senior coeds getting asked out by freshmen.  I guess with our Whitworth Ws last year we merit some attention from these folks.  And Whitworth fans, I think Oxy has the scheduling figured out just fine.  After all, they did come in second in the conference last year but based on their strength of schedule and quality non-conference wins got a ticket to the Tourney.  More than one person last year watching the Whitworth losses commented on those Ls having a significant potential impact on the ability of the NWC to get two in last year.   Lesson well learned.  It looks to me like you guys have two strong candidates for the Tourney this year.

Someone has to tell me where they are getting that school data.  I'm still scratching my head.  "Pamona" having a budget of $14k?!?  Doesn't make any sense at all.  The Oxy figure also has to be way, way, way high.  Oxy getting 3x the Hens?!?  Outrageous.     

Someone tail their coaches after the games and tell us what kind of cars they are driving.   Even if these figures are exaggerated and misleading, hats off to Oxy & CalLu for shaking dollars from somewhere to help their programs.   PC or someone, how many teams in the top 25 have operating budgets sub $30k?

[Pat Coleman]

It would just be a guess. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more than a few. A lot of schools simply don't fund athletics very well.

Those schools at the bottom don't fund sports information offices very well either, and it shows.

[Gregory Sager]

On the topic of travel, Illinois Wesleyan is scheduled to play at Occidental next season, so looking forward to meeting some of the fine Oxy posters.  My Titans could be starting 4 or 5 freshmen next year, so hoops may be rough....but  I will enjoy the weather!

The Titans could be starting four or five freshmen next year? So Ron Rose is gonna throw Gilmore, Gant, Morris, Chamernik, Bryant, etc., over the side of the boat? Has the team's radio colorman alerted them to this yet?

Pineconefan, thanks for the cogent contribution to the discussion. In addition, I looked up my own alma mater, and we spent a few thousand less than Oxy in 2006. Wheaton travels pretty regularly, including a trip out here to play Whittier, Redlands, and LaSierra (at the Whittier Poet's classic) last season and some regional travel to sourthern IN and Michigan.

Wheaton also has a hefty recruiting budget as part of its operating expenses, as the coaching staff will travel by plane if necessary to recruit out-of-state players.

I think that a lot of the dispute here between the NWC people and the SCIAC people comes down to scheduling methodology. As has been pointed out by a couple of SCIAC fans, SCIAC schools have the advantage of warm weather working for them when it comes to scheduling. The snowbirds have flown into SoCal every year for games for as long as I can remember, and unless they all start adopting the strategy that Coe, Dominican, Lake Forest, and North Park established this year (rent out a SoCal juco or high school gym on your own dime, then stage your own tournament and bypass the bother of having a SCIAC host dictate terms -- including the assignment of hometown refs -- on your warm-weather trip), it's likely to continue to be that way for the foreseeable future. The SCIAC schools are merely taking advantage of their best natural resource -- parka-free winter sunshine.

The problem with that is twofold: 1) You have to take potluck in terms of which snowbirds decide to make the trip to SoCal in any given year; one year you might get the likes of Amherst, St. Thomas, and Washington (MO), but the next year you might get stuck with such relative lightweights as Swarthmore, Wisconsin Lutheran, and Bard coming into your gym; 2) You don't present your team with the challenge of playing tough D3 competition on the road, thus failing to expose them to what they can expect in March should they make the D3 tournament.

These problems can be ameliorated somewhat by playing good GSAC teams on the road or by doing it the Oxy way and slipping in an exhibition game against a D1 whenever possible. But they don't replicate the problem of hopping on a plane, flying to a completely alien part of the country, and getting exposed to the midwestern style of D3 basketball that has obviously set the standard for how the game is played on this level -- or the problem of flying to the NWC and its home gyms that have caused so much trouble for SCIAC teams in recent tourneys.

But if there's anything I've learned about D3 basketball over the years, it's that each program has its own way of doing things, its own set of priorities and limitations, and its own chosen goals. If declining to travel to Spokane or Sea-Tac or Chicago or Grand Rapids or Columbus in November and December is the choice made by the SCIAC braintrust, then good on them. To each his own. I'm sure that they understand the pluses and minuses without our having to tell them what they are.

[David Collinge]

[...]unless they all start adopting the strategy that Coe, Dominican, Lake Forest, and North Park established this year (rent out a SoCal juco or high school gym on your own dime, then stage your own tournament and bypass the bother of having a SCIAC host dictate terms -- including the assignment of hometown refs -- on your warm-weather trip), it's likely to continue to be that way for the foreseeable future. [emphasis added]

Are you saying that Coe et alia imported snowbird refs for their So Cal sojourn?  They must have a pretty big travel budget for such an extravagence!

[wildcat11]

When did Chapman replace Cal Tech in the SCIAC? 

Seriously, I'd be interested to know what Cal Tech spends on hoops.  Talk about a high cost per win! 

David,

I noticed that yesterday after I posted but since I figure that since Cal Tech is a IM basketball team that I didn't want to take to time to update that post.  However, since you asked.  Cal Tech OE for Men's Basketball: $22,937