MBB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[nwhoops1903]

Good points NW.  No doubt all this could have turned out differently. 

Question I have looking at Whitworth's roster is whether the NCAA tournament conflicts with any of its national juco tournament dates (http://www.njcaabbtrny.org/mod/index.htm)?

I mean, Whitworth is a good school,was the pressure from UPS winning so much that they had to go to the point where they brought in 6 junior college players?  Wow.  That is more juco kids than Gonzaga and Washington State combined.   

What are you saying?  These kids don't deserve a good education?

[bbaddict]

Good points NW.  No doubt all this could have turned out differently. 

Question I have looking at Whitworth's roster is whether the NCAA tournament conflicts with any of its national juco tournament dates (http://www.njcaabbtrny.org/mod/index.htm)?

I mean, Whitworth is a good school,was the pressure from UPS winning so much that they had to go to the point where they brought in 6 junior college players?  Wow.  That is more juco kids than Gonzaga and Washington State combined.   

One way this really could have "turned out differently" is if Oxy had won their own conference tourney and entered as an AQ (like Whitworth).  Then, I'm certain we wouldn't be having this discussion.  Oxy would be hosting.

Give Whitworth's coach credit for recruiting from JCs -- he gets some good players that way.  His first recruit at Whitworth, Eric Avery, was from a JC and he was very good.  And you don't know much about the NWC if you think UPS winning was pressure on Whitworth -- more like Whitworth was used to winning, especially with Hayford!  UPS had its hey day during Bridgeland's reign, but now it's a conference where 6 our of 9 teams finished with .567 or better conference records. 

So, quit hating on the people who earned their spot and quit whining about what could have been.  Each team at least controls part of its destiny by winning the AQ spot.  Oxy didn't.  They should be happy they're in -- Cal Lu isn't!  And, if you're mad, be mad at the NCAA selection committee, not the team that got the cookie you wanted!

[Sabretooth Tiger]

Holy Sh** . . . such weeping and gnashing of teeth . . . this ain't the football board for cryin' out loud.

Congrats to the Tigers . . . smash da' Hens then have a great trip up north for a little pest control on the 'Rats.  (said with a wink to 509)   

io triumphe baby!

[DIIIghetto]

Not mad at Whitworth.   Happy the SCIAC got two teams in.  Great year for us in the southland.  Going to be tough for the SCIAC in Spokane but look at the bright side, we know this year that our conference gets at least 1 win.   And with Oxy in this, you just never know what can happen.  Those kids can rise up.  Unfortunately for them, they go against the SCIAC master class Thursday night, Kats.

I didn't know Whitworth's mission was to provide a 'good education' to junior college students.  Nice justification.  If 6 of Whitworth's transfers are from junior colleges, and basketball players are not getting preferential treatment, then it necessarily follows that Whitworth is letting in what, 50 or 100+ transfers from junior colleges?  I know there are some smart folks over there on the NWC thread and want to know what the feeling is about that.  I just found that number really high for a school with a decent academic reputation.

I can tell you that if Redlands let in 6 juco transfers there would be grumblings from other SCIAC schools about reconsidering their participation in the conference.

[bbaddict]

Do people transfer to Redlands?  WU picked up Cameron Mitchell from Redlands and he's quite the post player -- good scorer & rebounder -- and just a sophomore!

Hayford also recruits freshmen.   He's got several sophomores and juniors on the team that have been there since they graduated from high school.   So, get off the junior college recruits -- Whitworth is friendly to transfer students -- look at their web site, there's a whole section for Jr. college transfers.

But are we talking academics or basketball?  Academics -- Oxy's got it!  But, basketball, we'll see ...

Go NWC -- go Bucs!

[tigersports]

So, kids who make the most of their second chance in Juco aren't welcome at the D-III schools?   They have to satisfy themselves with the directional or "states that aren't states" schools? 

[April]

Man, I was really hoping for a regional.... 

Darn the NCAA for making the SCIAC play eachother in the first time. Can we get some NV/AZ teams in D3 fast?

[Greek Tragedy]

For the record, if you listened to the selection program and then listened to the ensuing interview with the NCAA rep, there actually wasn't a "mistake and schedule change" like last year with Oxy.  It was originally schedule Oxy v Ponoma-Pitzer, but was edited wrong or something like that and read wrong.

[Greek Tragedy]

Man, I was really hoping for a regional.... 

Darn the NCAA for making the SCIAC play eachother in the first time. Can we get some NV/AZ teams in D3 fast?

Come on, Wheaton v Lawrence?  You know it's worth the flight.

[LogShow]

Hayford also recruits freshmen.   He's got several sophomores and juniors on the team that have been there since they graduated from high school.   So, get off the junior college recruits -- Whitworth is friendly to transfer students -- look at their web site, there's a whole section for Jr. college transfers.

He just never plays them. His starting 5 are pretty good, so I guess I would play them 40mins a game too.  Just FYI: The starting 5 consists of 3 JC guys, one senior who never played till this year and a pretty good shooting frosh.

[TigerOldSchool]

I am only moved once or twice a year to say anything here, but this is once again ridiculous.  Whether it is football or basketball, the short end continues to point Oxy's direction.

Yes, they could have made it easy by winning out - but would that really make it easy for the committee.  Seems top 7 football teams still have to travel and play road games at the committees whim.  Of course we all know 60 or 80 plane flights add up quickly in the football world.... but 15 or so for hoops is just not justified.

Just get Obama to pay for a  bunch of teams to fly to Oxy, he'd gladly support it - he did rake in 10 mil last month in donations hehe.

[nwhoops1903]

Not mad at Whitworth...I didn't know Whitworth's mission was to provide a 'good education' to junior college students.  Nice justification.  If 6 of Whitworth's transfers are from junior colleges, and basketball players are not getting preferential treatment, then it necessarily follows that Whitworth is letting in what, 50 or 100+ transfers from junior colleges?  I know there are some smart folks over there on the NWC thread and want to know what the feeling is about that.  I just found that number really high for a school with a decent academic reputation.

I can tell you that if Redlands let in 6 juco transfers there would be grumblings from other SCIAC schools about reconsidering their participation in the conference.

Attacking JUCO kids and WW for having room for those is irratating and snobish.  These kids are playing D3 and are paying for their own education and meeting entrance standards and maintaining GPA's.  One of our JUCO's EARNED this headline:
Whitworth University men's basketball player Colin Willemsen has been recognized by regional college sports information directors for excellence on the court and in the classroom and has been named to the ESPN The Magazine CoSIDA Academic All-District VIII College Division men's basketball team. He is a Second Team selection sporting a 3.47 GPA. 

[nwhoops1903]

So, kids who make the most of their second chance in Juco aren't welcome at the D-III schools?   They have to satisfy themselves with the directional or "states that aren't states" schools? 

No, they don't.  The schools that "grumble" because they see and treat these fine young people as lower class students and individuals can go soil their Memorial Day weekend white khakis.  Sterotyping is such an ignorant and lazy character flaw.

[nwhoops1903]

Hayford also recruits freshmen.   He's got several sophomores and juniors on the team that have been there since they graduated from high school.   So, get off the junior college recruits -- Whitworth is friendly to transfer students -- look at their web site, there's a whole section for Jr. college transfers.

He just never plays them. His starting 5 are pretty good, so I guess I would play them 40mins a game too.  Just FYI: The starting 5 consists of 3 JC guys, one senior who never played till this year and a pretty good shooting frosh.

I think Hayford focuses on recruits as basketball players with character, coachability, talent and size.  They could be blue or 30 yrs old or half Mayan or HS senior or JUCO or transfer or whatever those things don't matter much if at all.  For the record, 3 JUCO transfers (2 sr, 1 jr) another junior (who did play some as a soph.) and a frosh.

[DIIIghetto]

Whitworth is a good school.  We have enough jucos in SoCal to know that yes, some of those kids can take advantage of an opportunity and perform well in the classroom of a liberal arts school.  But 6 of them?  Former SCIAC coach Gary Stewart told a friend of mine when he was the assistant at Washington State he felt that the administration was making a mistake by pressuring them to not bring in the 5 juco transfers they wanted (school thought that was too many).   Give Coach Stewart the kind of administrative support that allows Whitworth to bring in 6 juco transfers and I bet he would tell you that he would have had more than one upset of Stanford there at UC Davis. 

I am just in awe that a DIII program at a good school has that big of a juco pipeline.  Hats off to their coach and AD.  I know Whitworth made the unorthodox move away from SAT emphasis but always thought it was well regarded and one of the better small schools in the region.  Every school has junior college admits.  Very few small schools have a significant percentages of their transfers from junior colleges.  Admission offices in good small schools like Whitworth typically watch those juco admissions pretty closely. 

If the basketball team at Whitworth is not getting preferential treatment, then I would expect Whitworth to have dozens of junior college transfers matriculating each year.  The football team at Whitworth lists only 1 more juco transfer than the basktball team.  Between the football and hoops teams that makes 13 juco transfers by my count.   None for the Whitworth women's hoops team but fortunately they looked out for the women's softball team by admitting 4 juco transfers. 

Any other hoops team in the NWC come close to that Whitworth juco pipeline?  Has anyone noticed?  Just so you know that this isn't sour grapes or snobbery, I am pleading with the  AD at Whitworth to apply for the next SCIAC opening.   We need that type of commitment to winning.