D3 vs. D1/D2/NAIA/NCCAA

[gordonmann]

Ow

[mailsy]

It's even easier - d3 teams are allowed two exhibition games during their season (from the start of practice to the end of the championship game) - they can schedule them whenever they like.  The 25 allowable regular season games can only happen after Nov 14th (unless the 15th falls on a Saturday or a Sunday, then they can play the previous Friday night).

Ryan is correct - it had to be adjusted for last season after some confusion in the rule book. You have 2 exhibition/scrimmage games you can use anytime between Oct. 15 and the NCAA championship game (yep, that far) - alumni games do NOT count. If you play them prior to either team's first permissible game date, it is obviously an exhibition/scrimmage for both. If the D3 plays an opponent in D2 or D1 who has already started their season, that's when it gets confusing for people. The D2 and D1 can count it as a real game while the D3 can count it as an exhibition (BTW D2 can do that with D1s as well, I believe). It used to be understood that could only happen in the time between D1's start and Nov. 15, but the rule book actually wasn't that clear and I know of at least one case where a D3 team scheduled a December game against a D1, thought they could count it as exhibition, they were not allowed and suddenly had too many games - they scrambled and canceled their only remaining non-conference D3 game just days prior to playing it (both sides were fine with the decision). The rule was then better explained and formally expanded starting last season. Though, it is up for debate whether it will be changed again.

Who wouldn't allow it? One would think it would be up to each participating institution to deem it as a exhibition or a real game after the D3 season starts.

It wasn't allowed because the rule wasn't clear.  They cleaned up the language to side with how the school understood it in the first place, but, of course, too late for that particular game.  There is at least one December d3-d1 exhibition game on the schedule for this year - I forget who, but I remember seeing it.

Cabrini University (D3) at Lehigh University  (D1) December 22.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

It's even easier - d3 teams are allowed two exhibition games during their season (from the start of practice to the end of the championship game) - they can schedule them whenever they like.  The 25 allowable regular season games can only happen after Nov 14th (unless the 15th falls on a Saturday or a Sunday, then they can play the previous Friday night).

Ryan is correct - it had to be adjusted for last season after some confusion in the rule book. You have 2 exhibition/scrimmage games you can use anytime between Oct. 15 and the NCAA championship game (yep, that far) - alumni games do NOT count. If you play them prior to either team's first permissible game date, it is obviously an exhibition/scrimmage for both. If the D3 plays an opponent in D2 or D1 who has already started their season, that's when it gets confusing for people. The D2 and D1 can count it as a real game while the D3 can count it as an exhibition (BTW D2 can do that with D1s as well, I believe). It used to be understood that could only happen in the time between D1's start and Nov. 15, but the rule book actually wasn't that clear and I know of at least one case where a D3 team scheduled a December game against a D1, thought they could count it as exhibition, they were not allowed and suddenly had too many games - they scrambled and canceled their only remaining non-conference D3 game just days prior to playing it (both sides were fine with the decision). The rule was then better explained and formally expanded starting last season. Though, it is up for debate whether it will be changed again.

Who wouldn't allow it? One would think it would be up to each participating institution to deem it as a exhibition or a real game after the D3 season starts.

It wasn't allowed because the rule wasn't clear.  They cleaned up the language to side with how the school understood it in the first place, but, of course, too late for that particular game.  There is at least one December d3-d1 exhibition game on the schedule for this year - I forget who, but I remember seeing it.

The intent of the rule was for no exhibition games after Nov. 14. However, if you read the old language, they weren't as specific as they intended and it could be misread or misconstrued that the exhibition could be played at any time. The intent of the rule that had been in place for many years was no games after Nov. 14. Some programs had read through the rule without that understanding and read it differently. They weren't allowed to play the game because of the intent of the rule along with how it had been enforced to that point. As Ryan points out, the rule was adjusted to what we have today - what the team had read in the first place - but nothing they could do about it that particular season.

[hopefan]

Games listed on Dec 17 scoreboard that were Exhibitions:

Fontbonne - Missouri St
St. Mary's-Maryland
Southwestern-St. Edward's
George Fox-Portland State
Nazareth-Buffalo
Occidental-Westmont

[hopefan]

Games of Nov. 17

University of the Ozarks  107,  Arlington Baptist  (NCCAA-D2)  97
Cairn  98,  Penn State Lehigh Valley  (USCAA)  92
Penn State Brandywine (USCAA)  99 , Centenary (N.J.)  87 
Bluffton  79,  OSU Lima  (Other)  53
Mayville State (NAIA-D2) 92, Minnesota-Morris 85


D3 versus      
   W   L
NCAA-D1   0   4
NCAA-D2   1   1
NAIA-D1   0   1
NAIA-D2   4   3
NCCAA-D1   0   0
NCCAA-D2   4   0
USCAA   6   4
Other   2   1
IND-D3 Provisional   0   0

[hopefan]

Games of November 18

Howard Payne  66,  Eastern New Mexico  (NCAA-D2)  65
Springfield  83,  Dean College  (uscaa)  73
Villa Maria (uscaa) 101, York (N.Y.) 76
Buffalo State  84,  Maine-Fort Kent  (USCAA)  67
Lycoming  111,  Penn St.-Schuylkill  (USCAA)  81
William Paterson   75 ,  Penn St.-Hazleton  (USCAA)   63 
Puget Sound   65 ,  Evergreen St.  (NAIA-D2)   54 
Fisher (NAIA-D2)  88 , Lesley  82 
Rivier  107,  Unity  (USCAA)  63
Ferrum  76,  The Apprentice School  (USCAA)  67
Johnson (Tn.) (NCCAA-D2) 113, Oglethorpe 85
Sewanee   76 ,  Boyce  (NCCAA-D2)   47 
Susquehanna   91 ,  Penn St.-Wilkes Barre  (USCAA)   58 
Thomas More   88 ,  Midway  (NAIA-D2)   70 
UW-River Falls  103,  Robert Morris (Chicago)  (NAIA-D2)  98
Penn St. Beaver (USCAA)  91 , Thiel  78 
Portland (NCAA-D1)  98 , Lewis and Clark  52 
Coe  79,  Silver Lake  (USCAA)  71
UW-Platteville  78,  Lindsey Wilson  (NAIA-D1)  62

[hopefan]

Games of 11/19

Anybody notice Grinnell went for 167 against Silver Lake???!!!

Angelo State (NCAA-D2) 75, Howard Payne 48
Becker  83,  Dean College  (uscaa)  81
Maine-Fort Kent (USCAA) 97, York (N.Y.) 64
Buffalo State   94 ,  Villa Maria  (uscaa)   83 
Olivet   99 ,  Robert Morris-Peoria  (USCAA)   89 
Lebanon Valley   85 ,  Penn St. Mont Alto  (USCAA)   70 
Haverford   73 ,  Penn St.-Schuylkill  (USCAA)   66 
Clarks Summit   70 ,  Penn St.-Hazleton  (USCAA)   69 
Pacific Lutheran   71 ,  Evergreen St.  (NAIA-D2)   63 
Lesley   92 ,  Unity  (USCAA)   73 
Fisher (NAIA-D2)  70 , Rivier  53 
The Apprentice School (USCAA) 58, Worcester State 54
UC Santa Cruz   72 ,  Life Pacific  (NCCAA-D1)   60 
Boyce (NCCAA-D2)  53 , Oglethorpe  106 
Sewanee  102,  Johnson (Tn.)  (NCCAA-D2)  86
Penn St.-Wilkes Barre (USCAA)  84 , Franciscan (Ohio)  69 
Berry   83 ,  Midway  (NAIA-D2)   66 
UW-Stout  88,  Robert Morris (Chicago)  (NAIA-D2)  85
Westminster (Pa.)   90 ,  Penn St. Beaver  (USCAA)   61 
Texas College (NAIA-D1)  76 , LeTourneau  67 
Lubbock Christian (NCAA-D2) 90, Sul Ross State 74
University of the Ozarks   94 ,  Baptist Bible (Mo.)  (NCCAA-D2)   72 
McDaniel   95 ,  Penn State York  (USCAA)   73 
Grinnell  167,  Silver Lake  (USCAA)  115
Vermont (NCAA-D1)  79 , Lyndon State  20 
Sioux Falls (NCAA-D2) 100, Concordia (Wis.) 65
St. Elizabeth  80,  King's College NY  (USCAA)  65
Northwest Christian (NAIA-D2) 68, Willamette 64
St. Francis (Pa.) (NCAA-D1) 119, Chatham 59
San Diego Christian (NAIA-D1)  73 , Chapman  62 
Occidental   65 ,  Future College  (other)   50 
Whittier   96 ,  West Coast Baptist  (NCCAA-D2)   75 
Maryville (Mo.) (NCAA-D2)  86 , Fontbonne  56 
North Central (Minn.)   96 ,  Trinity Bible (N.D.)  (NCCAA-D2)   84 
UW-Whitewater  85,  Lindsey Wilson  (NAIA-D1)  78

[hopefan]

Games of 11/20/16

Carthage   80 ,  Robert Morris-Peoria  (USCAA)   66 
Penn St. Mont Alto (USCAA)  76 , Elizabethtown  70 

D3 versus      
         W   L
NCAA-D1   0   7
NCAA-D2   2   5
NAIA-D1   2   3
NAIA-D2   10   6
NCCAA-D1   1   0
NCCAA-D2   9   2
USCAA   28   8
Other   3   1

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Louisiana College has four games listed as "exhibition" on their schedule, two of them on or after Nov 15th.  They also have only 23 regular season games listed.  I'm guessing those two d1 exhibitions are real games, which would be interesting since they beat d1 McNeese State on the 15th.

I've got an email into the SID for confirmation, but we might have a D1 victor on the first day of the season.

[hopefan]

Louisiana College has four games listed as "exhibition" on their schedule, two of them on or after Nov 15th.  They also have only 23 regular season games listed.  I'm guessing those two d1 exhibitions are real games, which would be interesting since they beat d1 McNeese State on the 15th.

I've got an email into the SID for confirmation, but we might have a D1 victor on the first day of the season.

great catch Hoops.. it virtually has to be, given their are scores for the 2 pre-11/15 games, they had to be exhibitions, the other two have to be real... I'll change my spreadsheet for tomorrow

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Louisiana College has four games listed as "exhibition" on their schedule, two of them on or after Nov 15th.  They also have only 23 regular season games listed.  I'm guessing those two d1 exhibitions are real games, which would be interesting since they beat d1 McNeese State on the 15th.

I've got an email into the SID for confirmation, but we might have a D1 victor on the first day of the season.

great catch Hoops.. it virtually has to be, given their are scores for the 2 pre-11/15 games, they had to be exhibitions, the other two have to be real... I'll change my spreadsheet for tomorrow

It's been pointed out to me that there is a reading of the rule that would allow a team to have extra exhibition games if they gave up an equal number of regular season games.  Dave McHugh reached out to the NCAA to clarify and I'm hoping the LC SID will get back to me promptly.

[hopefan]

Louisiana College has four games listed as "exhibition" on their schedule, two of them on or after Nov 15th.  They also have only 23 regular season games listed.  I'm guessing those two d1 exhibitions are real games, which would be interesting since they beat d1 McNeese State on the 15th.

I've got an email into the SID for confirmation, but we might have a D1 victor on the first day of the season.

great catch Hoops.. it virtually has to be, given their are scores for the 2 pre-11/15 games, they had to be exhibitions, the other two have to be real... I'll change my spreadsheet for tomorrow

It's been pointed out to me that there is a reading of the rule that would allow a team to have extra exhibition games if they gave up an equal number of regular season games.  Dave McHugh reached out to the NCAA to clarify and I'm hoping the LC SID will get back to me promptly.

Interesting... I'll hold off on the change... let me know

[hopefan]

Scores of 11/21/16

Southwest (N.M.) (NAIA-D1) 89, McMurry 86
Franklin  NA,  Florida College  (USCAA)  NA   score not posted yet
Waldorf (NAIA-D2) 67, Simpson 59
St. Vincent  101,  Penn St.-Fayette  (USCAA)  80
Regis (Col.) (NCAA-D2) 88, Colorado College 79
Minnesota-Morris  105,  Presentation  (NAIA-D2)  100

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Scores of 11/21/16

Southwest (N.M.) (NAIA-D1) 89, McMurry 86
Franklin  NA,  Florida College  (USCAA)  NA   score not posted yet
Waldorf (NAIA-D2) 67, Simpson 59
St. Vincent  101,  Penn St.-Fayette  (USCAA)  80
Regis (Col.) (NCAA-D2) 88, Colorado College 79
Minnesota-Morris  105,  Presentation  (NAIA-D2)  100

Franklin beat Florida College 88-84. Go Grizzlies

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Louisiana College has four games listed as "exhibition" on their schedule, two of them on or after Nov 15th.  They also have only 23 regular season games listed.  I'm guessing those two d1 exhibitions are real games, which would be interesting since they beat d1 McNeese State on the 15th.

I've got an email into the SID for confirmation, but we might have a D1 victor on the first day of the season.

great catch Hoops.. it virtually has to be, given their are scores for the 2 pre-11/15 games, they had to be exhibitions, the other two have to be real... I'll change my spreadsheet for tomorrow

It's been pointed out to me that there is a reading of the rule that would allow a team to have extra exhibition games if they gave up an equal number of regular season games.  Dave McHugh reached out to the NCAA to clarify and I'm hoping the LC SID will get back to me promptly.

Interesting... I'll hold off on the change... let me know

LC says they're sacrificing regular season games for those extra two to be exhibitions.  I'm not sure why - the only thing that changes is whether the stats count or not.  No selection committee will care either way.  We're waiting to hear from the NCAA, but I doubt the college would do it without knowing for sure.  Strange.