D3 vs. D1/D2/NAIA/NCCAA

[AO]

Louisiana College has four games listed as "exhibition" on their schedule, two of them on or after Nov 15th.  They also have only 23 regular season games listed.  I'm guessing those two d1 exhibitions are real games, which would be interesting since they beat d1 McNeese State on the 15th.

I've got an email into the SID for confirmation, but we might have a D1 victor on the first day of the season.

great catch Hoops.. it virtually has to be, given their are scores for the 2 pre-11/15 games, they had to be exhibitions, the other two have to be real... I'll change my spreadsheet for tomorrow

It's been pointed out to me that there is a reading of the rule that would allow a team to have extra exhibition games if they gave up an equal number of regular season games.  Dave McHugh reached out to the NCAA to clarify and I'm hoping the LC SID will get back to me promptly.

Interesting... I'll hold off on the change... let me know

LC says they're sacrificing regular season games for those extra two to be exhibitions.  I'm not sure why - the only thing that changes is whether the stats count or not.  No selection committee will care either way.  We're waiting to hear from the NCAA, but I doubt the college would do it without knowing for sure.  Strange.

So every tough non-conference game on your schedule, just call it an exhibition and it stays off your record and helps you get an at-large bid?

[hopefan]

Scores of 11/21/16

Southwest (N.M.) (NAIA-D1) 89, McMurry 86
Franklin  NA,  Florida College  (USCAA)  NA   score not posted yet
Waldorf (NAIA-D2) 67, Simpson 59
St. Vincent  101,  Penn St.-Fayette  (USCAA)  80
Regis (Col.) (NCAA-D2) 88, Colorado College 79
Minnesota-Morris  105,  Presentation  (NAIA-D2)  100

Franklin beat Florida College 88-84. Go Grizzlies

Thanks Grizz

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Louisiana College has four games listed as "exhibition" on their schedule, two of them on or after Nov 15th.  They also have only 23 regular season games listed.  I'm guessing those two d1 exhibitions are real games, which would be interesting since they beat d1 McNeese State on the 15th.

I've got an email into the SID for confirmation, but we might have a D1 victor on the first day of the season.

great catch Hoops.. it virtually has to be, given their are scores for the 2 pre-11/15 games, they had to be exhibitions, the other two have to be real... I'll change my spreadsheet for tomorrow

It's been pointed out to me that there is a reading of the rule that would allow a team to have extra exhibition games if they gave up an equal number of regular season games.  Dave McHugh reached out to the NCAA to clarify and I'm hoping the LC SID will get back to me promptly.

Interesting... I'll hold off on the change... let me know

LC says they're sacrificing regular season games for those extra two to be exhibitions.  I'm not sure why - the only thing that changes is whether the stats count or not.  No selection committee will care either way.  We're waiting to hear from the NCAA, but I doubt the college would do it without knowing for sure.  Strange.

So every tough non-conference game on your schedule, just call it an exhibition and it stays off your record and helps you get an at-large bid?

No - this is a D1 so the rule about playing a higher division kicks in and allows for one team to count it and another to call it an exhibition.

You can't do that in the division and both teams have to sign off on it. You can't have one D3 play it for real and the other not for real. Doesn't work that way.

[AO]

No - this is a D1 so the rule about playing a higher division kicks in and allows for one team to count it and another to call it an exhibition.

You can't do that in the division and both teams have to sign off on it. You can't have one D3 play it for real and the other not for real. Doesn't work that way.

Interesting, I definitely side with Ryan here in wondering why LC would do this.  Any D-1 wins or losses are only considered under the secondary criteria, and I don't believe we've ever had an at-large bid decided based mainly upon a D-1 win or loss. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Well... to be honest, only decided truly if other teams in consideration also played those teams. The overall WL isn't usually seriously considered when secondary criteria is used... it is considered in terms of "anyone play the same opponent?"

I agree... seems pointless.

[smedindy]

I'm sure LC does it for the money and would rather sacrifice two counting games to get the cash.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

You can still do it for the money and count it as a real game - check out others in Division III and Coppin State who has made it a standard in D1.

[Just Bill]

I don't know the situation here, but there is a weird quirk where a D-I can call a game an exhibition, but the opposing D-III team has to count it as a real game. It stems from the two Divisions working off different definitions of what counts as a playing season. I'm still pretty sure LC can't count three exhibitions though. The third one of these would have to be official.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I don't know the situation here, but there is a weird quirk where a D-I can call a game an exhibition, but the opposing D-III team has to count it as a real game. It stems from the two Divisions working off different definitions of what counts as a playing season. I'm still pretty sure LC can't count three exhibitions though. The third one of these would have to be official.

I do not know of any situation where a D1 can call a game an exhibition and a DIII can call it a game. Normally it is a DIII can call it an exhibition and DI can call it a real game as long as it is after the DI season begins. The reason is D1's season starts earlier than DIII's (Nov. 15 most years). Also, DIIIs can have exhibition games AFTER Nov. 15, but that rule was only clarified two years ago.

As for LC... as Ryan as stated before (via my interptation to him), I suspect LC can count more than two exhibition games IF they take those games away from their overall total.

For example, the NESCAC does NOT allow exhibition games UNLESS the team chooses to take away from their season total of 25 (may be 24 in the NESCAC). I have a feeling that any team can play more than two exhibition games (allowed by NCAA rule) if they use up a game from their 25 game allotment. In other words, you have 27-games total (25 in-season) to use as you see fit. If you play 3 exhibition games, you are limited to 24 regular season games. And since DIII allows exhibition games, for now, to be played in the regular season... you see quirks like we are seeing with LC.

I do have emails and calls into the NCAA to try and get clarification.

[smedindy]

You can still do it for the money and count it as a real game - check out others in Division III and Coppin State who has made it a standard in D1.

Oh, I know that. I just told my wife the insane schedule Mississippi Valley State has this year, along with most of the SWAC and MEAC. It looks like Louisiana College gets $$ from Southland schools and UTEP.

They may want their coach to have a nicer record or something.

[hopefan]

Games of 11/22/16

Texas Permian Basin (NCAA-D2) 112, Sul Ross State 88
Southern Virginia  75,  The Apprentice School  (USCAA)  73
Boston University (NCAA-D1) 91, Western New England 54
Eckerd (NCAA-D2) 111, Franklin 85
Western Connecticut  84,  Dean College  (uscaa)  68
Siena Heights (NAIA-D2)  78 , Adrian  59
Minnesota-Moorhead (NCAA-D2) 107, Concordia-Moorhead 74
St. Cloud State (NCAA-D2) 95, St. John's 77
Fisher (NAIA-D2)  71 , Lyndon State  67
DePauw   98 ,  Boyce  (NCCAA-D2)   58
Pacific   83 ,  Portland Bible  (NCCAA-D2)   45
Northwest (Wash.) (NAIA-D2)  78 , Pacific Lutheran  63
Corban (NAIA-D2)  95 , Willamette  56
Chatham   71 ,  Penn St. Beaver  (USCAA)   60
Youngstown State (NCAA-D1) 97, Westminster (Pa.) 67
Illinois-Springfield (NCAA-D2) 90, Blackburn 74
Eureka  101,  Robert Morris-Peoria  (USCAA)  85
Greenville  178,  Lincoln Christian  (NCCAA-D1)  125
UW-La Crosse   72 ,  Viterbo  (NAIA-D2)   59

D3 versus      
           W    L
NCAA-D1   0   9
NCAA-D2   2   11
NAIA-D1   2   4
NAIA-D2   12   11
NCCAA-D1   2   0
NCCAA-D2   11   2
USCAA   34   8
Other   3   1

[hopefan]

Games of 11/23

Maine-Presque Isle  54,  Central Maine CC  (Other)  52


Old favorite UMPI with a win!!!   (Their first of the season)

[hopefan]

Games of 11/25

Hawaii Pacific (NCAA-D2) 79, Carleton 70
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps  83,  Cal Maritime  (NAIA-D2)  79
Cornerstone (NAIA-D2) 83, Calvin 55
Hope  93,  Aquinas  (NAIA-D2)  80
Mass-Boston  76,  Vermont Tech  (USCAA)  50
Hofstra (NCAA-D1) 89, Medaille 56
Valley City State (NAIA-D2) 85, Crown 58

[hopefan]

Games of 11/26

Carleton  68,  BYU-Hawaii  (NCAA-D2)  59   
DePauw  86,  East-West  (Other)  77   
Pomona-Pitzer  68,  Cal Maritime  (NAIA-D2)  59   
Aquinas (NAIA-D2) 94, Calvin 86   
Cornerstone (NAIA-D2) 95, Hope 78   
Merchant Marine  53,  Vermont Tech  (USCAA)  52   
Texas-Tyler  71,  Jarvis Christian  (NAIA-D1)  70   
Wartburg  83,  Governors State  (NAIA-D2)  82   
Maine (NCAA-D1) 96, Maine-Presque Isle 45   
Penn State Lehigh Valley (USCAA) 122, Penn College 111   
Linfield  104,  Northwest Indian College  (Other)  34   
Iowa Wesleyan  87,  Robert Morris-Peoria  (USCAA)  82   


D3 versus      
          W   L
NCAA-D1   0   11
NCAA-D2   3   12
NAIA-D1   3   4
NAIA-D2   16   15
NCCAA-D1   2   0
NCCAA-D2   12   1
USCAA   37   9
Other   6   1

[hopefan]

Games of 11/27

Carroll  93,  East-West  (Other)  76
Abilene Christian (NCAA-D1) 71, Howard Payne 55
Penn St.-Schuylkill (USCAA) 90, McDaniel 84
Delaware (NCAA-D1) 84, Bryn Athyn 51
Linfield  107,  Northwest Indian College  (Other)  62

Linfield plays an outmanned Northwest Indian College 2 days in a row.... I'd love to hear a reasonable explanation on that... No one else to play?