D3 vs. D1/D2/NAIA/NCCAA

[Hugenerd]

I can concede that Mayo had interest in Cinci and Coach Huggins........but thats still a long bridge between we recruited him to we had him.

Over 1 year in the life of a star eyed 16 year old super phenom prepster is a long a winding road.

That may be true but when you know a coach from the time you are 11 (as far as I know, could be earlier), that school is in your home town, and you are bringing in the top class in the nation (like I said, could have been Walker, Beasley and Mayo), you would think that Huggins had a better chance than anyone.  Huggins, Mayo and, Walker all also we born in West Virginia. After Huggins was gone, there was no way any of those guys would go to a rebuilding program which they had no ties to (Walker and Mayo had big ties to Huggins), and Mayo wasnt even recruited by USC until after Huggins was fired (see previous link to espn article) and only really got serious about USC during Huggins 1 year hiatus from coaching (he was out of coaching in 05-06).  When Huggins went to KSU it wasnt clear how strong a program he would have and it wasnt clear if the KSU campus/fans would embrace and give Mayo the attention he wanted (neither would have been an issue at UC because he is the hometown 'hero').  He went to USC for publicity and to get all the attention he could ever want, but I still think because of his family and friends he would have rather stayed home for a year if the situation would have been right. Clearly, none of this matters at this point, but it is clearly Nancy Zimpfers fault that UC didnt have the greatest recruiting class I can recall.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I can concede that Mayo had interest in Cinci and Coach Huggins........but thats still a long bridge between we recruited him to we had him.

Over 1 year in the life of a star eyed 16 year old super phenom prepster is a long a winding road.

That may be true but when you know a coach from the time you are 11 (as far as I know, could be earlier), that school is in your home town, and you are bringing in the top class in the nation (like I said, could have been Walker, Beasley and Mayo), you would think that Huggins had a better chance than anyone.  Huggins, Mayo and, Walker all also we born in West Virginia. After Huggins was gone, there was no way any of those guys would go to a rebuilding program which they had no ties to (Walker and Mayo had big ties to Huggins), and Mayo wasnt even recruited by USC until after Huggins was fired (see previous link to espn article) and only really got serious about USC during Huggins 1 year hiatus from coaching (he was out of coaching in 05-06).  When Huggins went to KSU it wasnt clear how strong a program he would have and it wasnt clear if the KSU campus/fans would embrace and give Mayo the attention he wanted (neither would have been an issue at UC because he is the hometown 'hero').  He went to USC for publicity and to get all the attention he could ever want, but I still think because of his family and friends he would have rather stayed home for a year if the situation would have been right. Clearly, none of this matters at this point, but it is clearly Nancy Zimpfers fault that UC didnt have the greatest recruiting class I can recall.

I'll take issue with this one on two counts:

1.  I don't recall the specifics of Huggin's indiscretions, but I wonder if 'fault' is the correct word for a President trying to run a University rather than a basketball factory?

2.  You can't recall the UM "Fab Five"?  (Which cost Michigan hugely to this day for the recruiting violations involved in assembling that group.)

[Hugenerd]

Huggins was charged with DUI, which led to his dismissal.  It is an offense he deserved some punishment for but after serving the university for 16 years, dismissal may have been a bit excessive. I also think his players didnt have a very good rate of graduation.

I do remember the fab five but I am younger than you think (I was about 10) and I wouldnt consider Jimmy King and Ray Jackson as elite professional level talent.  Webber, Howard, and Rose all have had good careers (the were respectively drafted #1, #5 and #13 in their respective drafts).  Beasley and Mayo were drafter #2 and #3 and Walker dropped to round 2 (he could have been first round without the injuries to his knees). All 3 of those guys were ranked top 5 in the 2007 recruiting class at some point.  They didnt have those types of rankings back in the late 80s, early 90s. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yeah, I think you're right on Huggin's DUI (I was thinking it was severe recruiting violations - was there some of that too?).  And I seem to recall (not sure where to look it up) that the graduation rate was well below not 'very good' - wasn't it something like 3 graduates in his entire tenure?  Huggins is obviously very good on the basketball front, but I'm not sure he has any place at an educational institution.

With vanishly small numbers of NBA players actually graduating from college, perhaps (alas) the Fab Five's accomplishment will be someday exceeded, but national runners-up with ALL starters being freshmen (then again as sophomores)?  And I believe that 4 of the 5 are now graduates of UM.  (Though not Chris Webber, perhaps the most academically-gifted of the lot, since he is persona non grata at UM for his role in the scandal.)

The first serious NCAA violations ever at UM - may they be the last.

[sac]

The first serious NCAA violations ever at UM - may they be the last.

last......I hope so, first? ...........no

The baseball team was dinged in the late 80's for violations under Head coach Bud Middaugh...........which included holding tryouts for players, and a kickback scheme in which players pocketed money from football program sales among other violations, 43 in all.

Bud lost his job in disgrace which was a shame because he was heading for a hall of fame career, the kind of coach they name stadiums after.    Fisher-Middaugh Stadium was in the cards.

excerpt from an article on Barry Larkin........

But things quickly went from all-good to all-bad for the Wolverines. In the summer of 1989, shortly after Larkin, Sabo, Kamieniecki and Hal Morris left Michigan, the NCAA began to question how Michigan was able to land such stars.

Accusations swirled: Middaugh loaned players over $1,000. Middaugh cheated while recruiting.

The result? The NCAA found 43 rules violations and slapped the Michigan baseball program with two-year probation, the first time any Michigan team had ever been penalized by the NCAA for a rules violation. Middaugh resigned, and Michigan baseball hasn't been the same since.


It took years and more than couple head coaches for Michigan baseball to recover.  Its still not at the same level it was in the early 80's.  From 1975 to 1987 Michigan won 9 Big 10 titles and went to Omaha 4 times.  Since probation in 1990 Michigan has won just 3 titles, which includes the last 2 back-to-back.


Really old article from the Michigan Daily gives a bit of insight into what was happening at Michigan..........which was no different to anywhere else.  Article was written shortly before then AD Tom Goss was removed.

http://www.pub.umich.edu/daily/1999/dec/12-13-99/news/news23.html

[Mr. Ypsi]

sac,

I had mercifully forgotten about that - thanks, Bud!   (I think it's because EMU was a college WS regular with Bob Owchinko and Bob Welch [among others] - no way was UM gonna be second best in Washtenaw County!)

But you're right - 2nd major violations.  UM is no longer pristine, but 2 in however many years the NCAA has existed still beats most major programs.

But it is bad enough that I'll get off my "holier-than-thou" high-horse.

[WOW, what thread is this?  Have we ever gotten off-track! :-[]

[Ralph Turner]

Waiting to confirm a report from a reliable poster on the ASC board.

Mississippi College 85, Alcorn St (D1 SWAC) 81 on Nov 10th.

Neither Alcorn St nor Miss College nor the Jackson MS Clarion-Ledger has a press release.

Alcorn did beat Louisiana College 92-69 last weekend.

[Rhodes Scholar]

Scores from 11/15

Belhaven (NAIA 1) 76, Millsaps 57
Central 82, Faith Baptist Bible (NCCAA 2) 41
Central Missouri (D2) 82, Westminster, MO 48
Eastern Connecticut 82, Berkeley, NJ (other) 61
East Texas Baptist 80, Jarvis Christian (NAIA 1) 79
Fisher (NAIA 2) 92, New England College 65
Huston Tillotson (NAIA 1) 116, Concordia-Austin 102
Indiana, PA (D2) 73, Thiel 43
Kean 68, Clarion (D2) 59
Kenyon 71, Illinois Tech (NAIA 1) 59
Lamar (D1) 105, Louisiana College 72
Lewis and Clark 94, Corban (NAIA 2) 62
Lycoming 77, Penn State-Hazelton (USCAA) 46
Middlebury 60, Bloomsburg (D2) 59
Minnesota State Mankato (D2) 102, Monmouth 50
Mount Saint Mary 91, Berkeley, NYC (other) 50
Oswego State 116, SUNY-Canton (NAIA 2) 68
Richmond (D1) 81, Randolph-Macon 57
St. Michael's (D2) 78, Norwich 40
St. Vincent 126, Penn State-Fayette (USCAA) 39
Texas-Arlington (D1) 84, Hardin-Simmons 64
Texas-Pan American (D1) 84, Sul Ross State 59
UMBC (D1) 91, Stevenson 54
UW-Platteville 87, Viterbo (NAIA 2) 56
Virginia Intermont (NAIA 2) 103, Emory and Henry 85
Vorhees (NAIA 1) 50, Hapden-Sydney 49
Westfield State 118, Paul Smith's (NAIA 2) 70
Winona State (D2) 92, St. Mary's 66

[Ralph Turner]

+1 Rhodes!   

Your labor of love is one of my favorite sites on these boards.

Thanks for your hard work!

[Rhodes Scholar]

Ralph: Thanks once again.

[Gregory Sager]

It's not really basketball season until the first Rhodes nightly rundown is posted.

Thanks again, Rhodes!

[Rhodes Scholar]

Greg: Thank you. Glad you enjoy it.

[Rhodes Scholar]

Scores from 11/16

Clarion (D2) 66, Redlands 65
Daniel Webster 86, Vaughn (other) 37
Hood 96, Penn State-Hazelton (USCAA) 79
Illinois Tech (NAIA 1) 70, Chicago 68
Johnson State 80, Paul Smith's (NAIA 2) 57
Marywood 82, Berkeley, NYC (other) 70
Mount Ida 88, Fisher (NAIA 2) 77
New Hampshire (D1) 101, Suffolk 50
Yeshiva 65, Berkeley, NJ (other) 48

[elfinley]

From 11/6:

Sacramento State(D1) 63, Chapman University 54

[d3hero]

Purchase College defeated D2 Nyack College in an exhibition game so add that to the list.