WBB: American Southwest Conference

[Ralph Turner]

I don't follow the numbers that Chris and Ralph have presented for post-season C bids, but from a fan viewpoint the obvious criterion is who wins what in the tournament.  Three years ago, when McM won the conference, I thought it was unjustified to give HSU a post-season bid since they got knocked out in the first round.  I thought if anyone got in, it should have been UMHB who got to the final game.  This time around, HSU got to the final game and played it into overtime.  As a fan who doesn't understand OWPs and OOWPs or whatever they are, I think it would be equally unjustified this year to pick MC or UTD over HSU, assuming the ASC gets a C bid at all.  Normal fans who aren't math majors look at the teams that are left standing at the end, not a lot of fancy numbers.  I know the selection committee doesn't do that, but sometimes the most obvious course of action is also the best, at least if you want to keep your credibility with your normal non-mathematical fans.

mcmfan,

Thanks for the recitation of the history of the ASC playoffs.         

[millie]

McMfan...I too do not understand all of the numbers OOWP and OWP's...I know that they are stats and that is a course that I would rather forget in my college days...I agree that a good dose of common sense can go a long way in this world...even as a MC fan who wants a bid in the worse sort of way I could agree with you IF there had not been so much discussion and number manipulation and justifications when the first regional rankings came out....to say I was over whelmed by the OOWP' is an understatement but we listen but I took my lecture knowing full well that I still didn't understand...until McMurry was not in the regionals any more and then the justificactions all seemed to change and we are now pushing to get HSU and HP in the regionals (yes I know they were in the finals..) Now it seems that the OOWP and OWP's don't mean anything.

This is just a question...not an accusal...is this board used as a petition (in a roundabout way) to politic to get certain teams in....meaning we can't call the committee but do they read these boards to see what the public thinks....just wondering

[ex-jacket]

I do think the head to head numbers could be looked at, but I would also hope they consider the home and away aspect of that. It was unfortunate for us that the year we have our best team is the same year we play the traditional power ASC teams on the road.

You can even take it a step further for UTD.  They were undefeated at home this year and if it had been the East's turn to host the tourney it makes it a whole different tourney IMO. 

Until the conference changes the way the tournaments are played you have to alternate years!!!!!  In order to win in the National Tournament you have to be able to win on the road!!!!UTD may have not been beaten at home, but during tourney time, it's a whole new ball game and winning on the road is the name of the game.  So no more excuses!!!

[JACKET84]

  You have to win on the road this time of year.  HPU has won 3 conference championships in a row now, and 2 of the 3 were on the road (Tyler & Abilene).

This was a great tourney.  There were several teams, with a break here and there, that could have won the tourney.  Great balance, but the West is still the best.

[SabineBBall]

  You have to win on the road this time of year.  HPU has won 3 conference championships in a row now, and 2 of the 3 were on the road (Tyler & Abilene).

This was a great tourney.  There were several teams, with a break here and there, that could have won the tourney.  Great balance, but the West is still the best.

But you got to play Hope on your home floor last year in the 2nd round.  That was a great advantage.  If you had had to play at Hope instead?  Please at least admit that was a big advantage.  UTD is a young team and just learning to win especially on the road.  UTD has won one game EVER on McMurry floor. Not making excuses for any loss just explaining the road differences.   HPU may get the chance to prove they can win on UTD's home floor from the projections I am seeing.  If that happens I hope you don't change your tune lol.  As for the poster saying basically the conference tournament is all that matter.  I guess we can just throw out the whole 22 previous games in conference because according to you they don't matter at all!!!!!!!!!!!

[JACKET84]

I  doubt anyone could have beat Hope on their home floor last year.  If UTD host this coming week, good for them.  HPU will just have to play their best on the road.   I'm sure they will remember the 22 point loss from earlier this year.

I really don't like the way the playoff system takes place.  Personally I like the way the NAIA used to do it (I don't know if they still do).  They brought all the teams (32?)to KC for one tourney.  No home court advantage for anyone.  I know DIII probably doesn't have the money to do so, but this would be fair for everyone.

[SabineBBall]

BTW I have nothing against HPU.  Great school and great team of girls.  My daughter was a knee injury away from playing there.  I am really glad they got in and have a chance to defend their title.

[lewis]

BTW I have nothing against HPU.  Great school and great team of girls.  My daughter was a knee injury away from playing there.  I am really glad they got in and have a chance to defend their title.

SabineBBall, She can still transfer. If HPU felt they wanted her then they might still welcome her.

[dballa]

I do think the head to head numbers could be looked at, but I would also hope they consider the home and away aspect of that. It was unfortunate for us that the year we have our best team is the same year we play the traditional power ASC teams on the road.

You can even take it a step further for UTD.  They were undefeated at home this year and if it had been the East's turn to host the tourney it makes it a whole different tourney IMO. 

Until the conference changes the way the tournaments are played you have to alternate years!!!!!  In order to win in the National Tournament you have to be able to win on the road!!!!UTD may have not been beaten at home, but during tourney time, it's a whole new ball game and winning on the road is the name of the game.  So no more excuses!!!

Don't forget the tournament was played at UT-Tyler last year and the West dominated the tournament.  It doesn't matter where it's played the "Best" will beat the "lEast"

Great weekend of basketball by the Lady Jackets.  They fought hard and earned the right to move on.  They never gave up and played a full 40+ minutes of basketball each game.

[dballa]

  I guess we can just throw out the whole 22 previous games in conference because according to you they don't matter at all!!!!!!!!!!!

You don't throw them out, but do you honestly think these teams are the same as when they were playing the first couple of months of the season?  I don't like the current conference system because so many games count early on when you should be playing games that will get you ready for conference play.  HPU is playing the best basketball of any team right now in the conference and it was evident on the court this weekend.  If they play UTD right now, no matter where it's played, HPU will win. 

The way the projections are holding out we might get that chance, unless it were to be a 2nd round game and UTD couldn't get past a 1st round again.

[SabineBBall]

  I guess we can just throw out the whole 22 previous games in conference because according to you they don't matter at all!!!!!!!!!!!

You don't throw them out, but do you honestly think these teams are the same as when they were playing the first couple of months of the season?  I don't like the current conference system because so many games count early on when you should be playing games that will get you ready for conference play.  HPU is playing the best basketball of any team right now in the conference and it was evident on the court this weekend.  If they play UTD right now, no matter where it's played, HPU will win. 

The way the projections are holding out we might get that chance, unless it were to be a 2nd round game and UTD couldn't get past a 1st round again.

I can see your point but it isn't like HPU blew out everyone in the tournament.  They had 3 tough games that could have went either way.  You have to be good and have some luck to win playoff games.  HPU had both this weekend.  Any chance this pod gets the 1st round bye?  I will put your absolute statement on who will win in the archives in case I need to refresh your memory later. 

[SabineBBall]

BTW I have nothing against HPU.  Great school and great team of girls.  My daughter was a knee injury away from playing there.  I am really glad they got in and have a chance to defend their title.

SabineBBall, She can still transfer. If HPU felt they wanted her then they might still welcome her.

I doubt UTD would be real happy about that lol

[mcmfan]

Millie,
You put me in the rather strange position of rooting for my traditional rival, HSU, against MC.  I just think the conference tourney should determine who gets into post-season.  It's the regular season, after all, that gets teams to the tourney in the first place.  That just seems more transparent to me, and therefore understandable as fair, than all these fancy numbers.  I certainly wish the tournament had turned out differently, with HPU and HSU being knocked out early and McM getting to (and winning) the final game.  But, alas, that didn't happen.

[golfniz1]

SabineBBall one day when, as you say, UTD learns to win whether it be a 1 ,2,3,or 6 point win at tournament time a win is a win and every win is critical when the selections are being made for the dance.  UTD had a great season, but towards the end of the season they just did not have the same bounce as they did the first 2 months and to be considered as a west beater especially in the conference tourney they have to maintain a high level of play thru out the whole season. Do you honestly believe that UTD deserves to host games over HPU since UTD lost their first round game to a 4th seed and HPU won the tournament beating a 2, 1, and 2 seed?  Oh by the way I would be willing to bet HPU would accept your daughter with open arms.

[SabineBBall]

SabineBBall one day when, as you say, UTD learns to win whether it be a 1 ,2,3,or 6 point win at tournament time a win is a win and every win is critical when the selections are being made for the dance.  UTD had a great season, but towards the end of the season they just did not have the same bounce as they did the first 2 months and to be considered as a west beater especially in the conference tourney they have to maintain a high level of play thru out the whole season. Do you honestly believe that UTD deserves to host games over HPU since UTD lost their first round game to a 4th seed and HPU won the tournament beating a 2, 1, and 2 seed?  Oh by the way I would be willing to bet HPU would accept your daughter with open arms.

I can honestly say I don't necessarily agree with the D3 selection process (why in the world would you not count all games against d3 teams???).  Bottom line is HPU was a 3rd seed with 5 in region losses and conference losses.  If they follow the criteria as stated by them.  UTD will be higher in the regional rankings than HPU and beat HPU.  If you take the entire season UTD is higher rated!  Bottom line until the tournament UTD sweep the west including 3 of 4 of them on the road.  I know it really bugs the west but you will have to deal with a East team making the NCAA tourney (I hope lol)