WBB: American Southwest Conference

[Ralph Turner]

The McM LIB are back in the lead again, 77-71 over a barnburner against HSU at Kimbrell Arena.  I think the key was HSU's Newcombe getting 3 fouls in the first half and having to sit out much of the game; when she came back in in the second half, she was deadly, but it wasn't quite enough.  I'm sure we'll meet again for game #3 in the tournament...

Lindsey Newcombe is an outstanding post.

We are fortunate to have so many outstanding posts in the conference.

[SabineBBall]

UTD took a big drop in the polls to #25 but I guess it is good to see MC jump into the poll for the conference.  Poll looks hard to climb up in for the ASC but easy to drop! 

[fanstand]

That's what we get for beating each other up.  It will be tough considering the losses to break into the top 25. But polls don't mean anything, so they tell me.....

[golden_dome]

That's what we get for beating each other up.  It will be tough considering the losses to break into the top 25. But polls don't mean anything, so they tell me.....

Just my opinion, but the biggest reason MC and UTD have had a hard time moving up the polls is that they came out of nowhere this year. It's always harder to move teams higher up in the poll when they haven't been there the last few years.

But there is plenty of information to support them being much higher.

For one, the ASC is one of the strongest women's basketball conferences in the country in my opinion. In the last three years, we've had one national champion (HPU 08), two different schools reach the final four (HPU 08, HSU 06) and three different teams make the sweet sixteen (HPU 08, HPU 07, HSU 06). Twice we had an ASC team knocked out early by another ASC team.  HSU was also an elite eight team in 2004. That is a strong resume.

The Massey ratings (computer rankings) also give the ASC a lot of credit this year. UTD is 9th, MC is 12th, HSU is 23rd and McMurry 24th. The Massey ratings that factor in margin of victory have MC 7th, UTD 12th and HSU 24th. www.masseyratings.com

The Top 25 poll is a great honor, it's hard to get into with so many competing teams, but the regional rankings will be more important. Hopefully the ASC will be well represented there.

[Ralph Turner]

Well, Chris mentioned Massey while this post was being composed.  McMurry comes in at #31 in Massey MOV, and we beat HSU last night.  We have Louisiana College at #55, HPU at #57, UMHB at #58, and UT-Tyler at #66.

UTD took a big drop in the polls to #25 but I guess it is good to see MC jump into the poll for the conference.  Poll looks hard to climb up in for the ASC but easy to drop! 

That's what we get for beating each other up.  It will be tough considering the losses to break into the top 25. But polls don't mean anything, so they tell me.....

I really like Massey Ratings MOV (Margin of Victory) for a computerized ranking service.

You can see how close everyone is.  Take a "snapshot" of this week's Massey MOV and see what one week of late conference play does to the rankings.  

[mcmfan]

After careful analysis, I've come to the conclusion that we blew it Monday night.  In our own best interest, the LIB should have lost to Hardin-Simmons.  Whoever wins the West hosts the ASC tournament this year.  The chances are that McM and HSU will face off again in that tournament.  To win the conference -- which is more important than winning the division -- McM will have to win that tournament game (as well as all the other tournament games it plays).  I did some research over the last five years of games between McM and HSU, a total of 12 matches including two post-season games, from 2004 to the present.  Playing at McM, the two teams are tied at 3 wins apiece.  But playing at HSU, McM has won 4 games but HSU has beaten McM only twice.  So, if we at McM want to win that final third match against HSU, our best chance is to lose a few games so that HSU hosts the tournament.  Of course, the opposite applies to HSU.  Each of us should be rooting for our team to lose right now! 

[Ralph Turner]

After careful analysis, I've come to the conclusion that we blew it Monday night.  In our own best interest, the LIB should have lost to Hardin-Simmons.  Whoever wins the West hosts the ASC tournament this year.  The chances are that McM and HSU will face off again in that tournament.  To win the conference -- which is more important than winning the division -- McM will have to win that tournament game (as well as all the other tournament games it plays).  I did some research over the last five years of games between McM and HSU, a total of 12 matches including two post-season games, from 2004 to the present.  Playing at McM, the two teams are tied at 3 wins apiece.  But playing at HSU, McM has won 4 games but HSU has beaten McM only twice.  So, if we at McM want to win that final third match against HSU, our best chance is to lose a few games so that HSU hosts the tournament.  Of course, the opposite applies to HSU.  Each of us should be rooting for our team to lose right now! 

Sounds like European (French Military) history to me...   

[mcmfan]

What can I say, Ralph?  Several years ago, I offered a course in French history at McMurry.  No one signed up for it.

[SabineBBall]

How does UTD's loss to D1 Texas State factor in?  I know it hurts us showing another loss and I see a lot of schools play d1's as exhibitions.  I assume it hurts you in the polls because most don't see anything but w/l but not for anything else?

[Ralph Turner]

How does UTD's loss to D1 Texas State factor in?  I know it hurts us showing another loss and I see a lot of schools play d1's as exhibitions.  I assume it hurts you in the polls because most don't see anything but w/l but not for anything else?

Here is the Handbook.

Only in-region games versus D-III full members are considered by the committee.

McMurry's wins over NAIA-1 Univ of the Southwest and D-III Bates (New England Region) and loss to NAIA-1 Wayland Baptist are not counted.

I cannot overstate the importance of knowing the Handbook, cover-to-cover!

[Ralph Turner]

Hoopsville features Louisiana College tonight.

It audio-streams at 6-8pm EST, and will be archived for listening later.

[SabineBBall]

How does UTD's loss to D1 Texas State factor in?  I know it hurts us showing another loss and I see a lot of schools play d1's as exhibitions.  I assume it hurts you in the polls because most don't see anything but w/l but not for anything else?

Here is the Handbook.

Only in-region games versus D-III full members are considered by the committee.

McMurry's wins over NAIA-1 Univ of the Southwest and D-III Bates (New England Region) and loss to NAIA-1 Wayland Baptist are not counted.

I cannot overstate the importance of knowing the Handbook, cover-to-cover!

Sounds like it lol.  Makes sense not counting other games but someone please explain the rationale for not counting D3 games if they are not in your region.  Sounds like that would give you some idea of regional strength.  Only thing I can fathom is it makes teams stay regional and would give teams that could afford to travel out of region an advantage.  Really hard to understand not counting games against your d3 peers.  IMO

[Ralph Turner]

How does UTD's loss to D1 Texas State factor in?  I know it hurts us showing another loss and I see a lot of schools play d1's as exhibitions.  I assume it hurts you in the polls because most don't see anything but w/l but not for anything else?

Here is the Handbook.

Only in-region games versus D-III full members are considered by the committee.

McMurry's wins over NAIA-1 Univ of the Southwest and D-III Bates (New England Region) and loss to NAIA-1 Wayland Baptist are not counted.

I cannot overstate the importance of knowing the Handbook, cover-to-cover!

Sounds like it lol.  Makes sense not counting other games but someone please explain the rationale for not counting D3 games if they are not in your region.  Sounds like that would give you some idea of regional strength.  Only thing I can fathom is it makes teams stay regional and would give teams that could afford to travel out of region an advantage.  Really hard to understand not counting games against your d3 peers.  IMO

D3 has always emphasized a regional focus and not missing class time.  In more compact regions, this is more apparent.

In some cases, playing a non-region opponent allows a team to get games into the schedule that permits the coach to experiment.

[golden_dome]

Tough loss for MC falling 61-54 at UT-Dallas. MC turned the ball over too many times and couldn't get to the line enough. Hard to win with six more turnovers (21-15) and outscored by 19 at the free throw line (4-6, 23-26).

Two of our top four scorers went scoreless, so you have to give credit to UTD's defense. They are very physical and it sounded like it gave us problems. We took 16 3-s which is a season high for us, we're usually not that perimeter. Hopefully, we can win the last four games and enter the ASC Tournament with a 22-3 record. That should be good enough for an at-large bid if we don't get the automatic bid.

I wouldn't be surprised to see another matchup with UTD in the tourney.

[Ralph Turner]

Tough loss for MC falling 61-54 at UT-Dallas. MC turned the ball over too many times and couldn't get to the line enough. Hard to win with six more turnovers (21-15) and outscored by 19 at the free throw line (4-6, 23-26).

Two of our top four scorers went scoreless, so you have to give credit to UTD's defense. They are very physical and it sounded like it gave us problems. We took 16 3-s which is a season high for us, we're usually not that perimeter. Hopefully, we can win the last four games and enter the ASC Tournament with a 22-3 record. That should be good enough for an at-large bid if we don't get the automatic bid.

I wouldn't be surprised to see another matchup with UTD in the tourney.

Chris, we will see the first regional rankings this week.