WBB: American Southwest Conference

[mcmfan]

I have this question for the HPU and HSU fans.
Was/Is Kimbrell Arena a "neutral" floor when you aren't playing McMurry, but are playing the East?  How many times have your players played a pressure game at Kimbrell?  You get good fan-turnout.  That almost seems to be "friendly environs".

I'm not a HPU or HSU fan, obviously, but I think I can contribute to your question, since I was helping out all day yesterday at the tournament.  I would definitely NOT call it neutral, for there were way more HPU and HSU fans at the two respective games.  You could tell the difference from the volume of crowd noise if you were in the corridor doing security.   It was obvious to me without even being in the court area when one of the two Abilene teams got a basket.  And because of the numbers of HPU and HSU fans that can come from such a short distance, I wouldn't say that McM has that much of a "home" advantage when playing either of those teams (nor does HSU playing us at HSU, for the same reason).

[Ralph Turner]

It's still too early to tell who would be the ASC pool C teams, and it greatly depends on who wins the ASC Tourney. It will be hard to separate the ASC teams, but here are what the numbers look like tonight using the D3hoops numbers.

Let's say McMurry beats HPU, HSU beats UMHB, and McMurry wins the tourney. McMurry (21-4) - receives the AQ.

MS College (21-4)
UTD (21-4)
HPU (20-6)
HSU (19-6)

I think if the regional record, OWP and OOWP are the main criteria, which has been insinuated, then UTD and MS College will get in. UTD and MC will have two fewer losses and the OWP's should all be very close.

However, HPU would probably have the best OWP, but it has to be enough to overcome two extra losses. HSU had the lowest OWP entering the tourney, but playing three games will help, but it still has to be good enough to overcome two extra losses.

HPU beat MC twice, MC beat HSU, MC split with UTD, UTD beat both HPU and HSU and split with MC. 

Right now, it's too close to call. If HSU or HPU wins the tourney, then the numbers will obviously be changed a good. I don't think it would hurt having a coach or a friend on the committee either because it could be that close.  Could the ASC get three pool C bids if the numbers are good enough compared to the rest of the country?

I hope that the committee is reviewing the fact that HPU, McM and HSU have more losses because we played double-round robin.

If we have a five-team league, and we use your scenario, then we have these records. (Tourney games are in italics)

McM 5-3  Wins:  MC, HPU, HSU, HPU, HSU
               Losses: UTD, HSU, HPU

UTD 4-1  Wins:  McM, HSU, HPU, MC
              Losses: MC (and UMHB in the tourney)

HPU 4-4  Wins: MC, McM, HSU, MC
             Losses: UTD, McM HSU, McM

MC  2-4  Wins: HSU, UTD
             Losses: McM, HPU, UTD, HPU

HSU 2-6 Wins: McM, HPU  (Tourney wins would be LaCollege and UMHB)
            Losses: MC, McM, UTT, UTD, HPU, McM

I think that UTD is still in fair shape for a Pool C bid.  Head-to-head and common in-region opponents are criteria.  Depending on the way that the committee wants to pull these apart, this should be interesting.

Thanks, Chris. 

(HSU fans must love their chances, especially if they can rest their starters some today!)

[golden_dome]

Ralph,
  I hope the committee uses the same criteria that they would in any situation. Just based off hearing the interview from last year's national chair for the men, the first two things they will look at are the regional records and the schedule strength. If teams stick out from those criteria they will be chosen first, if the numbers are close then they will move to other criteria. I know they are all listed as primary criteria, but interviews have suggested regional record and schedule strength are considered first.

I do think the head to head numbers could be looked at, but I would also hope they consider the home and away aspect of that. It was unfortunate for us that the year we have our best team is the same year we play the traditional power ASC teams on the road.

But like I said, I think if regional record and strength of schedule separates teams, then that will be the stopping point. If it does not, then other criteria will be brought into play.

[Ralph Turner]

Thanks, Chris.

You keep helping make the case for splitting the conference in half.   

In the ASC-East Conference, #1 UTD beats #4 UTT.  #2 Miss College beats #3 LaColl. in Dallas.  The #3 and #4 South Region ranked teams get one more in-region win and the face off for the Pool A bid.

If Oglethorpe and Greensboro "hold serve" and win their Pool A bids, and either Roanoke or Randy Mac win the ODAC Pool A, then the ASC-East Conference loser is the first Pool C considered from the South and the West is no where near the equation.

As it is now, the ASC question is wide open!   

[mcmfan]

Some more thoughts on yesterday's MS-HPU game.  Checking the TV monitor shouldn't have been necessary in any case.  It should have been clear whether the final foul that was disallowed was within the game or not, for as long as the closing buzzer hadn't sounded, the referee would have known that the ball was still in play.  He obviously wouldn't have called the foul after hearing the buzzer.  But I don't remember hearing the buzzer, nor did another person who was at the game that I talked to.  Did the buzzer not go off?  Does anyone remember hearing it?

[dballa]

I have this question for the HPU and HSU fans.
Was/Is Kimbrell Arena a "neutral" floor when you aren't playing McMurry, but are playing the East?  How many times have your players played a pressure game at Kimbrell?  You get good fan-turnout.  That almost seems to be "friendly environs".

I'm not a HPU or HSU fan, obviously, but I think I can contribute to your question, since I was helping out all day yesterday at the tournament.  I would definitely NOT call it neutral, for there were way more HPU and HSU fans at the two respective games.  You could tell the difference from the volume of crowd noise if you were in the corridor doing security.   It was obvious to me without even being in the court area when one of the two Abilene teams got a basket.  And because of the numbers of HPU and HSU fans that can come from such a short distance, I wouldn't say that McM has that much of a "home" advantage when playing either of those teams (nor does HSU playing us at HSU, for the same reason).

I went to the women's tournament in Tyler last year and the West had more teams than any East teams.  It doesn't matter where you play the West fans will show up and support their teams.  On the East side on the road they usually only have family support and a few students.  At home they have a lot more fans but still doesn't compare to the support the West gets.  All of that comes with success and consistency.  People love to see good basketball.

[SabineBBall]

I do think the head to head numbers could be looked at, but I would also hope they consider the home and away aspect of that. It was unfortunate for us that the year we have our best team is the same year we play the traditional power ASC teams on the road.

You can even take it a step further for UTD.  They were undefeated at home this year and if it had been the East's turn to host the tourney it makes it a whole different tourney IMO. 

[millie]

I can solve a lot of the problems..lets just let MC go D2...the the Texas teams will not have to travel (1 time  per year) and MC will not have to cross the great state of Louisiana how ever many times they have to go to Texas in a year.

O.K. before you junp out there and say we can't compete..I would beg to differ with you...the girls are bigger and tougher in D2..MC would have athletic schlorships (which it doesnot have now... this would allow the $18,000/year school to get the bigger girls), would be closer (most games in the Gulf South West are played in AR....even if they were in the East they would play in AL, GA and the panhandle of Fl...which are all closer than the West side of the ASC). So while we are petitioning to split the ASC lets see if we can convience the powers that be at MC to go D2

McMfan, you are right and I don't think the ref would have called the foul if he had heard the buzzer...especially the head ref to be overturned by the other ref from across the floor

[golfniz1]

Millie I was not yelling at you I just typed in caps by accident sorry.  As far as the west being the stronger division look at the numbers 4-0 that speaks for itself and Chris HPU is 21-5 this year and should go ahead of Miss. College they beat them twice this year if I remember correctly.

[Ralph Turner]

McM 29 HPU 22 at the half.

[mcmfan]

Chris,
You need to redo your calculations for post-season play now that the finalists in the West are HPU and HSU.  I'd say the winner gets the automatic bid, and the other the C, assuming the ASC gets a C bid.  The only time the committee is given a post-season bid to any team that got knocked out early was when HSU got it three years ago, and that was probably because they could set up a West Texas sectional and save money on travel expenses.

[golden_dome]

Chris,
You need to redo your calculations for post-season play now that the finalists in the West are HPU and HSU.  I'd say the winner gets the automatic bid, and the other the C, assuming the ASC gets a C bid.  The only time the committee is given a post-season bid to any team that got knocked out early was when HSU got it three years ago, and that was probably because they could set up a West Texas sectional and save money on travel expenses.

I'll try and come up with some numbers later including today's ASC games. I do think HSU was the only first round loser to get a pool C, but that is also largely due to few teams having strong enough regular season criteria. Losses or wins in the ASC tournament don't carry more weight than the regular season games. But the more you play the better, because you are usually playing teams with good records that improve your strength of schedule numbers.

[SabineBBall]

I'd say the winner gets the automatic bid, and the other the C, assuming the ASC gets a C bid. 

So you expect a team with 6 in region losses to make the tourney over 4 loss teams ranked in regional standings?  HSU lost to both MC and UTD at home.  HPU beat MC at home and lost to UTD on the road and split with UMHB who beat UTD.  I can see a some what of a case for HPU but I don't think HSU has a chance as a "C".  I also don't think in previous years any team for the East has had resumes comparable to MC and UTD.

[nash]

SabineBBall,
Don't forget that HSU is our rep on the committee, and that trumps everything.

[Ralph Turner]

SabineBBall,
Don't forget that HSU is our rep on the committee, and that trumps everything.

Actually the custom is for representatives that are involved to recuse themselves.