WBB: American Southwest Conference

[JACKET84]

I hear the HPU/ McMurry game was a good one according to my wife who attended the game.  I do understand that Coach Prock made a bone headed comment to one of the Mac coaches, not good form Coach.  You won the game the comment was not necessary that is not what HPU Womans Basketball is all about. Coach K and his previous teams played with class win or loose and played every minute on the floor as hard as they could go that is what Lady Jacket BBall is all about, not what you did.  I as an HPU fan apologize to all the LIB fans and coaching staff for such comments.  The final should be a great game good luck to HSU and go Lady Jackets!

What was it that Prock said?   

[mcmfan]

So you expect a team with 6 in region losses to make the tourney over 4 loss teams ranked in regional standings?

If the NCAA can save a few bucks in travel money, yes, like I just said... 

[Ralph Turner]

It's still too early to tell who would be the ASC pool C teams, and it greatly depends on who wins the ASC Tourney. It will be hard to separate the ASC teams, but here are what the numbers look like tonight using the D3hoops numbers.

Let's say McMurry beats HPU, HSU beats UMHB, and McMurry wins the tourney. McMurry (21-4) - receives the AQ.

MS College (21-4)
UTD (21-4)
HPU (20-6)
HSU (19-6)

I think if the regional record, OWP and OOWP are the main criteria, which has been insinuated, then UTD and MS College will get in. UTD and MC will have two fewer losses and the OWP's should all be very close.

However, HPU would probably have the best OWP, but it has to be enough to overcome two extra losses. HSU had the lowest OWP entering the tourney, but playing three games will help, but it still has to be good enough to overcome two extra losses.

HPU beat MC twice, MC beat HSU, MC split with UTD, UTD beat both HPU and HSU and split with MC. 

Right now, it's too close to call. If HSU or HPU wins the tourney, then the numbers will obviously be changed a good. I don't think it would hurt having a coach or a friend on the committee either because it could be that close.  Could the ASC get three pool C bids if the numbers are good enough compared to the rest of the country?

I hope that the committee is reviewing the fact that HPU, McM and HSU have more losses because we played double-round robin.

If we have a five-team league, and we use your scenario, then we have these records. (Tourney games are in italics)

McM 3-4  Wins:  MC, HPU, HSU,
               Losses: UTD, HSU, HPU, HPU

UTD 4-1  Wins:  McM, HSU, HPU, MC
              Losses: MC (and UMHB in the tourney)

HPU 5-3  Wins: MC, McM, HSU, MC, McM  One game to go.
             Losses: UTD, McM HSU,

MC  2-4  Wins: HSU, UTD
             Losses: McM, HPU, UTD, HPU

HSU 2-5 Wins: McM, HPU  (Tourney wins would be LaCollege and UMHB)
            Losses: MC, McM, UTT, UTD, HPU,   One game to go.

I think that UTD is still in fair shape for a Pool C bid.  Head-to-head and common in-region opponents are criteria.  Depending on the way that the committee wants to pull these apart, this should be interesting.

HSU needs to win the tourney to get a bid.

UTD is up on HPU by head-to-head.  (I don't know how the committee treats UTD.)

HPU needs to win to get a bid.  I think that they are on the deep bubble if they lose.

I know that Chris supposedly has the numbers, but Miss College does not fare well if HPU wins.

[SabineBBall]

So you expect a team with 6 in region losses to make the tourney over 4 loss teams ranked in regional standings?

If the NCAA can save a few bucks in travel money, yes, like I just said... 

If travel money determines who gets into the tourney the NCAA D3 has a lot deeper problems than I thought. 

[SabineBBall]

SabineBBall,
Don't forget that HSU is our rep on the committee, and that trumps everything.

Seems you are insinuating the process is crooked?  I hope you were joking lol

[dballa]

I hear the HPU/ McMurry game was a good one according to my wife who attended the game.  I do understand that Coach Prock made a bone headed comment to one of the Mac coaches, not good form Coach.  You won the game the comment was not necessary that is not what HPU Womans Basketball is all about. Coach K and his previous teams played with class win or loose and played every minute on the floor as hard as they could go that is what Lady Jacket BBall is all about, not what you did.  I as an HPU fan apologize to all the LIB fans and coaching staff for such comments.  The final should be a great game good luck to HSU and go Lady Jackets!

I don't know if Coach Prock needs to apologize.  What he said didn't warrant McMurry's assistant to go off the wall.  Coach Prock is a class guy and runs his program just as classy as Coach K did.  He preaches sportsmanship as much as he preaches good defense.  I've known him and his family for a long time and he does not do anything in any way to demean or degrade anybody.

After a game like that between McMurry and HPU emotions always run high.  Players, coaches and fans need to keep their cool and move on.  Coach Snow is a great coach and one that preaches class to her team as well.  What happened after the game isn't indicative of what kind of program she runs either.

I wish I could be there Sunday to cheer on the Lady Jackets, unfortunately I'll be in the metroplex.

Go Lady Jackets, take care of business one more time.

[golfniz1]

Daballa I can assure you that Coach K would not have said nothing, a hand shake was all that was in order after a hard fought game like this one not a remark that would sure create tensions as it did.  Sorry can't share your views on this one.

[mcmfan]

I don't know if Coach Prock needs to apologize.  What he said didn't warrant McMurry's assistant to go off the wall.

It's hard to take a position on this without knowing what it was that Coach Prock said.  Does anybody have a specific quotation beyond "hearing something from a reliable source"?

[golden_dome]

This is far from scientific, but here are some numbers I put together based on numbers through the weekend. This is based on the D3hoops regional records and I assumed everyone's opponents had played a total of about 500 games entering the tourney, it makes the math easier and looking up every opponents regional record would take a week. I just added the tournament records. But like I said, this is just something to give an idea of how things are shaking out.

Mississippi College 21-4, .518 OWP
UTD 21-4, .504 OWP
McMurry 19-5, .507 OWP
Howard Payne 21-5 (one game left) .531 OWP
Hardin-Simmons 19-5 (one game left) .515 OWP
Randolph-Macon 20-5, .548 OWP
Roanoke 21-4, .492 OWP
Trinity 18-5, .503 OWP

Those are the top pool C candidates from the south. For MC, they need Oglethorpe to beat Trinity, Randolph-Macon to beat Bridgewater, and for HPU to beat HSU tomorrow. I just don't think Hardin-Simmons or Trinity can get Pool C's if those numbers are even close to right.

So lets say HPU, RMC and Oglethorpe win tomorrow. This is how the rankings could settle out just based on regional winning percentage and OWP. The OOWP should not factor much for ASC schools because they are all about .500.

South Region
1. Oglethorpe 20-3   AQ
2. Greensboro 23-1    Pool C
3. Randolph-Macon 20-5 AQ
4. Howard Payne 22-5  AQ
5. Mississippi College 21-4 Pool C
6. Texas-Dallas 21-4   Pool C
7. McMurry 19-5 Pool C
8. Hardin-Simmons 19-6   Pool C
9. Roanoke 21-4  Pool C
10. Trinity  18-6  Pool C

I think McMurry will end up behind MC and UTD because of the worse regional ranking, and the same or worse OWP. HSU could be in the same boat, two extra regional losses without a better OWP. Other criteria will not move them up if regional record and schedule strength separates them. If it shakes out like that, I wouldn't be completely shocked seeing three Pool C's from the ASC if upsets are few and far between around the country.

[The Jinx]

Anyone that saw a previous post of mine, that was dleted, I apologize for my fat fingers.

[Ralph Turner]

I said over on the South Region rankings board.

I don' think that you can make a statistically significant distinction between Miss College at .518 and UTD at .504.  That is only 2.7% better on less than 25 games.


There is a big discussion of OWP on the Men's Pool B board where they are discussing Maryville 14-6 OWP .489 and Chapman 15-3 and OWP .361 (as of 2/25).  That is a difference.

[dballa]

a hand shake was all that was in order after a hard fought game like this one

That's what sparked the whole thing coming from a McMurry player that refused to shake hands with Coach Prock and other players.

Time to move on though.  I Know the team has moved on and is ready to play today. 

golfniz1,  I saw your daughter at the game last night, she seems to be doing really well. 

[JACKET84]

I don't know if Coach Prock needs to apologize.  What he said didn't warrant McMurry's assistant to go off the wall.

It's hard to take a position on this without knowing what it was that Coach Prock said.  Does anybody have a specific quotation beyond "hearing something from a reliable source"?

I agree, does anyone know exactly what happened?

[golfniz1]

    HPU wins again in a thrilling overtime game congrats to the navy and gold

[mcmfan]

I don't follow the numbers that Chris and Ralph have presented for post-season C bids, but from a fan viewpoint the obvious criterion is who wins what in the tournament.  Three years ago, when McM won the conference, I thought it was unjustified to give HSU a post-season bid since they got knocked out in the first round.  I thought if anyone got in, it should have been UMHB who got to the final game.  This time around, HSU got to the final game and played it into overtime.  As a fan who doesn't understand OWPs and OOWPs or whatever they are, I think it would be equally unjustified this year to pick MC or UTD over HSU, assuming the ASC gets a C bid at all.  Normal fans who aren't math majors look at the teams that are left standing at the end, not a lot of fancy numbers.  I know the selection committee doesn't do that, but sometimes the most obvious course of action is also the best, at least if you want to keep your credibility with your normal non-mathematical fans.