WBB: American Southwest Conference

[SabineBBall]

Maybe someone would breakdown the numbers but everything I see had UTD ahead of MC.  And so did the the NCAA regionals rankings 5 days ago.  Add in HPU who had to move into the regional rankings and its no contest.  I am sure we can thank our HSU rep on the committee---I doubt UTD forgets that!  UTD returns their entire team for next year and just got a little more motivation!!! 

[dballa]

Maybe someone would breakdown the numbers but everything I see had UTD ahead of MC.  And so did the the NCAA regionals rankings 5 days ago.  Add in HPU who had to move into the regional rankings and its no contest.  I am sure we can thank our HSU rep on the committee---I doubt UTD forgets that!  UTD returns their entire team for next year and just got a little more motivation!!! 

Go to the Multi-Region board on the Women's side and then click on the Pool C board.  You'll find the final numbers on there as far as winning %'s go.  UTD dropped way down losing to UMHB rather than MC actually looking pretty good after losing to a team that won the conference title. 

[golden_dome]

Maybe someone would breakdown the numbers but everything I see had UTD ahead of MC.  And so did the the NCAA regionals rankings 5 days ago.  Add in HPU who had to move into the regional rankings and its no contest.  I am sure we can thank our HSU rep on the committee---I doubt UTD forgets that!  UTD returns their entire team for next year and just got a little more motivation!!! 

Here are the numbers that pabegg released for the women. They aren't official, but he has been very accurate the last few years. He has MC ahead, but travel always plays a role in the tournament and there's no doubt UTD had an uphill battle in that department.

Here are the south region numbers.

Here are the final numbers run on the women

Reg Conf Rank Prior RPI    OWP    OOWP   School                    Natl Status      Reg Overall

SO  54   01   02    0.6528 0.6026 0.5364 Oglethorpe                006  A in        20-3 25-3
SO  55   02   01    0.6141 0.4999 0.4953 Greensboro                017  C 6         25-1 26-2
SO  53   03   06    0.6045 0.5357 0.5131 Randolph-Macon            042  A in        20-4 23-5
SO  51   04   08    0.6003 0.5411 0.5043 Howard Payne              048  A in        22-5 23-5
SO  51   05   04    0.5857 0.5000 0.5027 Mississippi College       051  C 22        21-4 22-4
SO  53   06   05    0.5826 0.4868 0.5168 Roanoke                   058  C 27        21-4 23-4
SO  51   07   03    0.5822 0.4908 0.5074 Texas-Dallas              059  C 28        21-4 21-5
SO  55   08   nr    0.5770 0.5175 0.4951 Christopher Newport       066  A in        21-6 22-6
SO  54   09   09    0.5951 0.5901 0.5336 Centre                    068  C 35        14-7 18-9


Reg        Region
Conf       Conference number
Rank      Regional ranking
Prior       Prior regional ranking
School
Natl     National ranking based on regional results
Status
    B + number: Pool B ranking (top 3 in tournament)
    C + number: Pool C ranking of 18 teams in tournament
    C second: second tier Pool C (spots 21-30)
    C third: third tier Pool C (spots 31-40)
    A in: clinched Pool A bid
    blank: lower level Pool C

[dballa]

Or let Chris post them on here


You also said UTD returns their entire team next year.  HPU does the same.   

[hsusid]

I am sure we can thank our HSU rep on the committee---I doubt UTD forgets that! 

You can say that all you want, the numbers back up MC over UTD and the last thing UTD gave the committee to look at was a spanking by a 13-12 team in its last game and a loss to a 9-16 team two games before that. MC had no bad losses (all four were to teams with 21 or more wins) and UTD had TWO of them in their final three games.

Don't call out someone that spent a lot of time on that committee, including Sunday morning before her team's championship game. The people that are on those committees take their job seriously, and take way too much flak from the uninformed. I am surprised anyone actually agrees to do it anymore.

UTD not getting into the tournament was about strictly the numbers and results and not an HSU conspiracy to bring down UTD. Don't you think if the coach had that much pull her team would have snuck in the back door.

[McM Blue Devil]

Good post hsusid.  I have a hard time commenting on the selection process because I do not know all the facts.  I am just frustrated that good teams in the ASC just beat each other up, just to get to the tourney.

[SabineBBall]

I am sure we can thank our HSU rep on the committee---I doubt UTD forgets that! 

You can say that all you want, the numbers back up MC over UTD and the last thing UTD gave the committee to look at was a spanking by a 13-12 team in its last game and a loss to a 9-16 team two games before that. MC had no bad losses (all four were to teams with 21 or more wins) and UTD had TWO of them in their final three games.

Don't call out someone that spent a lot of time on that committee, including Sunday morning before her team's championship game. The people that are on those committees take their job seriously, and take way too much flak from the uninformed. I am surprised anyone actually agrees to do it anymore.

UTD not getting into the tournament was about strictly the numbers and results and not an HSU conspiracy to bring down UTD. Don't you think if the coach had that much pull her team would have snuck in the back door.

#'s back up?  Primary criteria: Against regional seeded opponents UTD 2-1.  MC 1-3.  One game on OWP after last regional rankings couldn't have made that much difference.  As it is the OWP difference of .0035 is not even worth discussing.  The rest of your jibberish doesn't appear anywhere in the criteria!  If your rep went off script as you speak then they were wrong!!

[SabineBBall]

I am sure we can thank our HSU rep on the committee---I doubt UTD forgets that! 

You can say that all you want, the numbers back up MC over UTD and the last thing UTD gave the committee to look at was a spanking by a 13-12 team in its last game and a loss to a 9-16 team two games before that. MC had no bad losses (all four were to teams with 21 or more wins) and UTD had TWO of them in their final three games.

Don't call out someone that spent a lot of time on that committee, including Sunday morning before her team's championship game. The people that are on those committees take their job seriously, and take way too much flak from the uninformed. I am surprised anyone actually agrees to do it anymore.

UTD not getting into the tournament was about strictly the numbers and results and not an HSU conspiracy to bring down UTD. Don't you think if the coach had that much pull her team would have snuck in the back door.

Also BTW anytime a organization refuses to release final data on something like this as the NCAA has refused to do there is a problem!!!!

[hsusid]

I am sure we can thank our HSU rep on the committee---I doubt UTD forgets that! 

#'s back up?  Primary criteria: Against regional seeded opponents UTD 2-1.  MC 1-3.  One game on OWP after last regional rankings couldn't have made that much difference.  As it is the OWP difference of .0035 is not even worth discussing.  The rest of your jibberish doesn't appear anywhere in the criteria!  If your rep went off script as you speak then they were wrong!!

I didn't say the committee went off script. The losses to those two teams are what knocked you down. If you can't see that I am sorry. You win either of those two games and your numbers would have probably held over MC. The numbers were very close going into the tournament and like it or not MC's loss to a 23-5 team is much better than the UTD loss to a 14-13 team as far as the criteria.

Was it close? Absolutely, I am sure it was. To have the advantage in one of the criteria does not win your argument.

When it was all said and done MC probably was higher in the OWP and OOWP and it was likely more than .0035, which when you start splitting hairs is a big difference. You or I don't know the formula the NCAA uses to determine the strength of schedule, but common sense says that when Team A loses to a 14-13 team and Team B loses to a 23-5 team there will be a rather significant change to the SOS number.

I agree the formula needs to be released, but that is not what the NCAA does at this point. 

Trust me I know how it feels on selection to not get in when you were one of the last Pool Cs not to get in. The two years prior to this HSU was in the same boat. 2007 we lost to Southwestern and that left us out. In 2008, we lost six games and they were all to NCAA Tournament teams (three to NCAA champ Howard Payne). A nine-loss team got a Pool C over us. It was because of the numbers.

But your accusation on Coach Briggs was out of line. She is one person on the regional committee and two teams from our conference got into the tournament. That regional committee only sends ranking recommendations to the national committee and they don't have to accept them.   

[Ralph Turner]

In the men's Selection Committee Chairman's podcast, he made a comment about the committee's deliberations.

The team of one of the committee members was being discussed, so the member had to drop-off the conference call.

That is standard procedure for these activities.

It is what is expected when UTD's Marci Sanders is deliberating on the Regional Women's Volleyball Committee or Coach Shane Shewmake does for baseball.

The committee service is a prestigious honor that enhances the coach's or AD's reputation and professionalism.  They take the job seriously, because reputations are made in that committee room.

[SabineBBall]

I wasn't splitting hairs I was going by the posted numbers but lets look at it another way.  Out of conference MC didn't play a team with a winning record. UTD had an overtime loss to St Benedicts who won their conference.  No need to add conference opponents they played the same ones by my math MC out of conference and conf tourney OWP was 1 game over .500.  UTD OWP was 1 game under .500.  A statistical dead heat.   Add in common in region opponents MC had one additional loss 4 to 3.  Regional record against seeded opponents MC 1-3 UTD 2-1 (2-2 if you count a seeded team out of region that counted as a regional game) It is nothing personal against the HSU rep (unless they at any time uttered the words I THINK MC is better and used that as a determining factor).  If 2 or 3 game swing over a 26 game schedule in OWP was the determining factor....that is not they way they say it will be.  On another thread if OWP is close they move on to other criteria.  All other primary criteria favor UTD.  So if you are going to argue criteria then argue criteria not "what you think they should do".  That makes you no better than the committee!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Good luck to MC and HPU.  I hope you play great for the conference!!

[hsusid]

I am sure we can thank our HSU rep on the committee---I doubt UTD forgets that!  

That was the personal remark against the rep. That is what brought me into the conversation.

[hsusid]

If 2 or 3 game swing over a 26 game schedule in OWP was the determining factor....that is not they way they say it will be.  On another thread if OWP is close they move on to other criteria.  All other primary criteria favor UTD.  So if you are going to argue criteria then argue criteria not "what you think they should do".  That makes you no better than the committee!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Good luck to MC and HPU.  I hope you play great for the conference!!

Absolutely 2 or 3 games swing the OWP. If HSU doesn't play Sul Ross and Schreiner four times our OWP is a lot higher. The cold hard truth about getting into the NCAA Tournament, and I think that some of the others that have been here a while agree, is  --- DON'T LOSE GAMES TO INFERIOR TEAMS.

[SabineBBall]

I just listened to the commitee chair on audio.  When asked about UTD and MC all she said was MC was slightly ahead in final regional ranking.  What a cop out.  Sounds like she just side stepped the answer completely.  Why have them on if they will not give real answers?  Wasted 15 minutes for nothing lol.  Only the NCAA at all levels gets away with this kind of stuff!!  Thanks for nothing committee chair 

[SabineBBall]

If 2 or 3 game swing over a 26 game schedule in OWP was the determining factor....that is not they way they say it will be.  On another thread if OWP is close they move on to other criteria.  All other primary criteria favor UTD.  So if you are going to argue criteria then argue criteria not "what you think they should do".  That makes you no better than the committee!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Good luck to MC and HPU.  I hope you play great for the conference!!

Absolutely 2 or 3 games swing the OWP. If HSU doesn't play Sul Ross and Schreiner four times our OWP is a lot higher. The cold hard truth about getting into the NCAA Tournament, and I think that some of the others that have been here a while agree, is  --- DON'T LOSE GAMES TO INFERIOR TEAMS.

Sorry you had to lose to our UTD inferior team!!  Next year try to beat the weak teams from the east and you might get in!!!!  Since everyone knows the West plays a better brand of basketball!!!!