WBB: American Southwest Conference

[nash]

Ralph,
The regional polls came out and LC is #5 while Hendrix is #2.  MC beat Hendrix easily and I don't understand how they can be #2 in the region.  I am afraid the the ASC is going to get screwed this year for tournament bids  because the conference is so even and if you don't win the conference tournament you won't get to go anywhere.  It seems parity in the ASC is going to restrict our opportunities for post season play.

[Ralph Turner]

I am scared about that, too.

I think that DePauw Women will win the SCAC's AQ.

Hendrix will be compared against other teams in the region.  If Hendrix can win at Trinity, and then beat AC and then make it to the SCAC finals, they will have put together a pretty good record.

But I know that this team only beat a quirky Ozarks team by 2.  Go figure.

I wish that the conference would split into two.

[Tennessee_papa]

Ralph,
The regional polls came out and LC is #5 while Hendrix is #2.  MC beat Hendrix easily and I don't understand how they can be #2 in the region.  I am afraid the the ASC is going to get screwed this year for tournament bids  because the conference is so even and if you don't win the conference tournament you won't get to go anywhere.  It seems parity in the ASC is going to restrict our opportunities for post season play.

I was at the MC - Hendrix game and I wouldn't say they beat Hendrix easily.  HC was up at halftime and MC lead most of the 2nd half, but the lead was maybe 3 to 7 points most of the way.  MC was clearly better that night primarily because Hendrix had no answer for MC's posts.  MC's post play was fabulous.

Agree that it's a surprise that Hendrix is ranked #2 in the region.  Sounds a bit high to me.  Got a link to the rankings?

Nevermind.  Found 'em.  Trinity fourth in the region is more of a surprise than Hendrix 2nd.  Not sure I see how either is ranked above LC.  Or UTD for that matter.

But I know that this team only beat a quirky Ozarks team by 2.

Hendrix's starting point guard and backup point guard were both out that game - injured a couple of days before in Memphis.  Don't know how much that contributed.  HC is a bit quirky and inconsistent themselves.

[Ralph Turner]

Thanks, Tennessee Papa.

UOzarks is a quirky team, too.

They have pulled their share of upsets this season (McMurry included).

Trinity is at #4 by the way that the calculations work.

They get good wins over McMurry (at home and OT) and UMHB, one of the criteria.

They get quality OWP/OOWP with the Stout game.  Scranton does not hurt them, but Scranton is a good team to play if one looks at secondary criteria.

IMHO, the South Region is weaker this season relative to the rest of the country, with the possible exception of CNU.

I think tht DePauw (Great Lakes Region for the women) is the best team in what we think of as the "South".

[Ralph Turner]

UMHB 74, McM 60.  UMHB's Kallie White finished with 24 points, the first 17 of which pushed UMHB to a 25-16 lead.  McM never recovered from that.

[JACKET84]

Ouch!   Giving up 90 points to HSU.  It would be interesting to know the last time anyone scored that many points on an HPU girls team.  I looked back thru the 95 season, and there's nothing close to 90.

[Ralph Turner]

Ouch!   Giving up 90 points to HSU.  It would be interesting to know the last time anyone scored that many points on an HPU girls team.  I looked back thru the 95 season, and there's nothing close to 90.

That was a "must-game" for the Cowgirls to make the 4th slot in the tourney.

TLU has their destiny in their own hands, but they really needed to beat UMHB last night.

TLU is now 10-8, hosting CTX, and wining in Abilene at McMurry and at HSU next weekend.

HSU is currently 9-9 in conference play.

[mcmfan]

It looks to me like HSU and TLU are neck and neck for the fourth and final slot in the playoffs.  Since TLU beat HSU earlier in the season, who has the tie breaker if HSU beats TLU when they come to Abilene?  It looks to me like McM will get in as long as we win one of the two final games next week, but what of the HSU/TLU matchup?  Have the HSU women ever missed the conference tournament since the ASC was set up?

[Ralph Turner]

Let me try this.  I think that mcmfan is correct.

ASC Tie-breaker



 In the event of a tie for first place and/or other places in the regular-season division or conference standings, the tie-breaking procedures for ASC Championship Tournament seeding shall be as follows. This formula is only used for tournament seeding and is not used to break position ties in the standings (ties stand). In Division sports, the tie-breaking procedure is done only among Division opponents unless otherwise specified in the tie-breaking criteria.

9.1.1    Two-Way Ties: In the event of a two-way tie, the seed positions are determined by:

            a.  Record against each other.  

            b.  Record against Division opponents in descending order starting with the highest seeded team.

            c.  Point-Run Differential between tied teams. There will be a maximum cap in designated sports used for each game in the Point-Run Differential:

                       Baseball: Fewest runs allowed against tied teams per game

                       Basketball: 10 points per game

                       Football: 21 points per game

                       Softball: six runs per game

                       Volleyball: match games won-lost, followed by a cap of six points per game

                       Soccer: goal differential between tied teams, followed by a cap of four goals per match

            d.  Record against mutual opponents in the opposite Division in descending order starting with the highest seeded team in the opposite Division. If the tie remains, Point-Run Differential in descending order starting with the highest seeded team in the opposite Division (maximum cap as listed under 9.1.1.c).

            e.  If the above formula is not conclusive, the Commissioner shall conduct a coin flip to determine the           highest seeded team(s).

9.1.2    Multiple Ties: In the event of a tie with three or more teams, the seed positions for all sports except football and tennis are determined by the following formula When a team or teams have been seeded, the remaining teams are placed at the beginning of the appropriate formula for "Multiple Ties" or "Two-Way Ties" until all ties have been broken.

            a.  Collective record against other tied teams.

            b.  Record against Division opponents in descending order starting with the highest seeded team.

            c.  Collective Point-Run Differential between tied teams. There will be a maximum cap in designated sports used for each game in the Point-Run Differential:

                       Baseball: Fewest runs allowed against tied teams per game

                       Basketball: 10 points per game

                       Football: 21 points per game

                       Softball: six runs per game

                       Volleyball: match games won-lost, followed by a cap of six points per game

                       Soccer: goal differential between tied teams, followed by a cap of four goals per match

            d.  Record against mutual opponents in the opposite Division in descending order starting with the highest seeded team in the opposite Division. If the tie remains, Point-Run Differential in descending order starting with the highest seeded team in the opposite Division (maximum cap as listed under 9.1.1.c).

            e.  If the above formula is not conclusive, the Commissioner shall conduct a coin flip to determine the highest seeded team(s).

To earn a playoff bid:

McMurry has the tie-breaker on HSU, regardless.  I think that McMurry's magic number is 1.  One win by McMurry or one loss by HSU, and McMurry has a bid.

HSU's magic number is 2.  HSU gets the season-split with TLU.  HSU has a split with HPU whereas TLU has lost to HPU twice.  HSU needs two wins this week.  In a three-way tie at 12-9, HSU loses in the first tie-breaker (Record versus McM/TLU is only 1-3.)

TLU's magic number is 2.  To earn the #3 seed, they must win both.  

Corrections are appreciated.

[Ralph Turner]

I will defer to hsusid or some other HSU expert, but it looks like this could be the first time that HSU would not make the post-season tournament.

The tourney began in 1999.  They were tri-champs in the 1998 and Austin College earned the post-season bid.  They finished 6-6 and 4th in 1997.

http://www.ascsports.org/documents/2008/4/25/alltimeWOMENSBASKETBALLstandings.pdf

This is a great week for basketball.

[hsusid]

I am no expert, but it would be the first time. HSU won the first six ASC tournaments 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004. Lost to McMurry in the semifinals of 2005, lost in the first round of the 2006 tournament to ETBU, lost to Howard Payne in the semifinals of 2007 and 2008 and lost to Howard Payne in the 2009 finals.

The only time HSU did not win at least one game in the ASC Tournament was 2006 and the Cowgirls went to the Final Four that season.

[mcmfan]

Let me see.. if McM loses to TLU but beats Schreiner, it ends up with a 12-9 record.  If TLU beats McM but then loses to HSU, it ends up with a 12-9 record.  If HSU beats Schreiner and TLU, it finishes 12-9.  What happens then?  McM has the tiebreaker over HSU, so it gets in; and since HSU has its two wins over HPU, it gets in?

And what if Schreiner fools everyone and manages to win one of its last two games?  Yes, this could be a very interesting week...!

[ShouldaBeenAnIndian]

I've managed to make three McM games so far this year, but I haven't been as impressed with them as I have been in the past. I expected the HPU game to be a lot closer than it was. It seems to me the entire west conference has gone down recently. Do we even have anybody in the top 25? It should make the conference tournament interesting.

The McM/TLU game should be a good one on Thursday, even though McM beat them by quite a bit last time I think. Both teams will have plenty of motivation to play well I would think. I just hope I get to see it!

[mcmfan]

Oops, I just realized that Ralph already answered my question about a 3-way tie in his earlier post.  Of course, as ShouldaBeenanIndian pointed out, what will probably happen then in the conference tournament is that all the west teams except UMHB will get destroyed in the first round -- the opposite of what the tournament has looked like in past years.   Is the east that much better, or the west just that much weaker?

[nash]

I think that the east is stronger than it has been in the past.  Regardless of who is going, it looks like it is going to be in Pineville this year.  A bright spot for Pineville is if the weather warms over the next two weeks crawfish may be available.