WBB: American Southwest Conference

[Ralph Turner]

Good morninig dsc, Eastern Mennonite was the ODAC representative that year, just as Randolph-Macon was last year.

http://www.d3hoops.com/vabeach/04/pairings.htm

HSU got the bye.  Maryville was the Pool B from the GSAC.

There have been 2 participants from the South Region in the Women's Finals in the last 3 years, Trinity in 2003 and Randolph-Macon in 2005.  If we are looking at the South Region from the outside, the ASC teams may win games, but they do not defeat non-South Region teams.

IMHO, defeating great teams at the Elite 8 level and above is the only way to get the "real respect" that some "knee-jerk posters" are seeking.

[dsc]

Thanks...Ralph!

...for the link/pairings.  I tend to agree with you.  I think I have read on these postings before that many North and East teams have taller and "tougher" players.  However, going to the "Elite Eight"  (more than just once)  is commendable, no matter whom a team  might be playing...in order to get there!

I do believe that HSU can certainly be proud of their results over the past several years! 

Go Cowgirls...Beat McMurry!   

[calhsu]

I hate repeating myself but if you don't pay attention.

The polls of course reflect very much the past.  HSU has earned the right for the respect it gets.

And as I said before, if MCM wins they will get in the polls. HSU will stay in the polls at a lower level but remain as long as they don't loss other games.

[Ralph Turner]

dsc, I am proud of the accomplishments of HSU (once we have settled each year's contests in conference play     ).

But most ASC fans, especially from our exposure nationally on the football side, should have an understanding about how good a team has to be to get to the national level.

IMHO, the ASC-West is about 1/2 player shy each year.  I have listened to the HSU-McM/ and the HSU-St Thomas game in 2000 (St Thomas finishes 4th overall), the HSU-Guilford game in 2002 (SCAC representative DePauw finished 3rd in 2002 out of another part of the bracket), the 2003 Trinity-HSU game (Trinity won the tourney), and  the 2004 HSU-UWSP game (UWSP won the tourney in 2004).

In 2005, Trinity defeated the HPU Lady Jackets 57-55 in the Brownwood Mausoleum  , only to lose at Randolph-Macon in OT.  Randolph-Macon gets blown out in the National finals.

We have seen up-close-and-personal what it takes to get to the finals or to win.

I just hope we get there this year!

[inthepaint]

Every year there are fans who think their teams are strong because they play really well in the early part of the season.  They may even have perfect records after a few weeks of cross conference play.  These fans conclude that their teams are among the strongest in the nation and deserve a high ranking in the polls.  They conclude that since they don't get the ranking they hoped for then the teams are getting no respect.  Ralph is right!  ASC teams must go deep into the playoffs if they ever expect to get ranked in a poll.  HSU has proven their ability to consistently move beyond the first or second round of post season play, which gives them help in the polls but does not help other conference teams.  HPU's quick exit last year did not help the ASC's reputation.  Bottom line is simple - someone is going to have to go to the final four for the ASC to get more national recognition.

[Ralph Turner]

Paint, I agree with your quick exit comment about HPU in 2005.

In football, we have had the South Region champion three times: HSU twice and UMHB.  Our football teams get one-two strong teams in the Top 10-15 without much question each season.  The pollsters know that the ASC #1 will be Top 5-7;  the ASC #2 will #5-15 most seasons because the teams and the conference have earned it.

If HPU had won the 2005 South Region, then they would have made the Elite 8 and the ASC champion (HPU in 2005) would be judged as Elite 8 material, again.  Were that to happen again in 2006, then the conference would be known as that strong.  Otherwise, last year's perfomance might be judged by an outsider as an off-year for HSU, when several of us thought that the Lady Jackets were a very strong team!

The ASC's reputation is being carried by HSU (and I would love for McMurry to change that ! )

[fanstand]

GOOD GRIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let me set my record straight! I did not say HSU did not deserve to be in the polls.. Yes I understand that their record and name recognition gets them some of that and in the beginning of the year until they lose they will be there....got it. My point was Mcm has played the same 5 teams and have won by +119 points, HSU has won by +77 and we keep losing votes. I didn't say McM was the top in the nation, the season is young and we have a long way to go. And unlike calhsu and Mr. Turner, I see the games from the stands not on the radio, I see intangibles, interaction with the coaches and players, players with players, things the radio doesn't SEE. I have seen both teams play. Last year after the tournament in Georgetown, I talked about HPU and the difference in the team than the year's past, I was right. I could have predicted what happened at UMHB with Lisa Martinez just because I SEE what goes on, on the court, on the bench, yada yada yada. Am I an expert? H*** No. But I do have an opinion, and I know girls...........raised some myself and I see that you can play with skills, but there is a raw emotion that can make or break you.  So IMHO, means my opinion is humble, can't say that about everyone else. And Mr. Turner, I thought we were on the same team. But Lord have mercy, I won't mention the polls again!

[Ralph Turner]

Fanstand, we are on the same team!         We have a young team that still has never played an NCAA game!   I don't like playing the "we don't get no respect" game, because I continue to be amazed by the people who define themselves and their success by their own incredible standards of truth or excellence.

(The 2005 Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology, Barry Marshall, was a young doctor in his late 20's who imagined that stomach ulcers could be caused by bacteria.

http://nobelprize.org/medicine/laureates/2005/index.html

That was going against the conventional wisdom, because every research scientist in the field was trying to figure out how to treat them by decreasing stomach acid production (Pepsid and Zantac). )

I don't want this team defining itself by or becoming enamored with a poll number.  "Look how good we are !  We got "x" number votes!"

I want the Lady Indians focused on winning one game at a time.  Besides, Pat Coleman may be the only voter who has seen the Indians and that was last year's team!

I'll admit that polls are fun.  I will follow them myself, but I really like this team.  I believe you about the chemistry and the drive.  Symbri Tuttle proved that to me last year, and the performances that we are getting this year out of the whole team are great!

Let's not worry about the polls.  The NCAA Regional Rankings in February will give us an idea of our chances, if it comes to a Pool C bid, because we did not win the tourney or where we will play if we do get a bid!   

One other thing...

...And unlike calhsu and Mr. Turner, I see the games from the stands not on the radio, I see intangibles, interaction with the coaches and players, players with players, things the radio doesn't SEE...

Do you mean that Kit and Leon aren't telling me everything? 

[dballa]

Just look where being in the top 25 got HSU in football this year and women's basketball last year....sitting home going nowhere...

I don't care for all this blasting HPU for losing in the first round...they played one of the best teams in the nation with the 05 player of the year...and a few of the players that played on their national championship team...so to say they blew it in the first round is a load of crap.  Sure they had their chances and should have won especially being at home...but they didn't lose to a bad team...they lost to a team that went on to lose to the national runner up in OT.

[fanstand]

Kit and Leon are great!! The few games I don't attend, I love listening to them. And I agree polls don't always mean alot. I agree about respect, and maybe respect isn't the word I am looking for. In all honesty I love the underdog. The first HSU game last year, they didn't "expect" us, they were more prepared for Mcm the second game and we should have won, but Diana Martinez was the factor (an intangible) she made things happen but it was a great game. The third game we made the things happen that got the job done. Maybe its legitimacy I hope these ladies accomplish. They are respected, but not always taken seriously.  HPU is still a factor,they are the reigning conference champs. Iits not just a two team race. I am about emotion, I don't have to figure logic in (I have a man for that!) I just really hope this team has what it takes, they are young still, but experienced......somewhere down the line I hope they get the NCAA experience and bring some legitimacy to the ASC.

[Ralph Turner]

No, dballa, we did not say that HPU was blown out!

My agony over the HPU loss was we (ASC) had a really good HPU team!  They had the national stage against the 2003 National Champion Trinity team making the playoffs for the first time since 2003.

They were playing at home, home court advantage!  A win over Trinity would have seen HPU hosting Greensboro on Saturday night!

I see the margins of victory in the 2005 tourney and believe that HPU could have made the Final Four!  But we (ASC) did not get out of the first round!

Well, we will get over this, and hopefully we are even hungrier this year.

[dballa]

Didn't say they were blown out but it was said they pretty much blew the game. 

But anyways HPU was a young team playing a very experienced Trinity team.

HPU is still very young this year but improving with every game.  And even with that youth they have a lot of experience back from last years team...I can't wait to see them play against HSU and McM...the only bad thing is I think both of those teams come to Brownwood during the break and won't get as big of a rowdy crowd that has pumped up the team before.

[moseshightower]

I think it is hard to judge how HPU would've done just based on the scoring margins of the other games.  The second and third weekends of the tournaments have teams playing on back to back nights which some teams don't do all year.  I think that's what lead to Randolph-Macon getting blown out in the finals, Millikin had and still has a very deep team while RMC had and still has an outstanding starting five that needed to play most of the game for that team to win in the playoffs. 

All that aside, the top 25 rankings really don't mean much because you don't see the top 10 playing each other in the regular season like you see at the Division I level.  The only thing the ASC needs to worry about is winning games to improve their regional rankings so that they can host games in the playoffs.  Every ASC team has a HUGE home-court advantage and that's what will lead to wins in the playoffs.  Another thing they need to concern themselves with is Trinity because just like in football, expanded field or not, Trinity and the top teams in the ASC will inevitably meet in the playoffs.  So, until you have a good enough program to consistently beat Trinity (which looks like is starting to happen in football), the ASC won't get far in the NCAAs and therefore never get ranked high in the top 25.   

[inthepaint]

At least fanstand called you "Mr. Turner."  I would have been miffed had he failed to show the respect due!

Dballa, get rid of that wad and relax.  You are way too defensive!  I don't believe anyone said HPU blew the playoff game last year.  As Mr. Turner wrote, most of us felt HPU was one of the strongest teams to win the conference title in several years and had a good chance to go fairly deep in the playoffs.  They did not blow the game.  Postseason (Mr. Coleman, I still see the ASC tournament as part of the regular season) play is the arena that the ASC has yet to really do well in.  HSU has some history there but otherwise the ASC has been pretty much absent. 

The experience last year may be the best thing to ever happen to HPU.  Their program knows the feeling of winning the conference and looking ahead only to see it end in 90 minutes one evening.  The Jackets are going to be tough, they always are, but tougher this year than in recent years if for that reason alone.

I am thrilled with the excitement that is building in the conference this season.  McM, HPU and HSU are all quality programs and all three can be seen as realistic contenders for the conference title.  I'm sure other programs could also steal the sho.  It is going to be a great ride!

[fanstand]

Looks like Jessica Wurzbach is back on UMHB's roster again, interesting. What is going on there? I haven't seen her or Tomlinson in a box score yet.