WBB: American Southwest Conference

[calhsu]

First,  I in no way want to disrespect Daniels.   Even as an HSU fan what she has done cannot be dismissed by anyone.  And I did not say she could not play on a DI team.  But if anyone wants to tell me that she could be a starter on a top 10, DI school(which of course what she is in DII) and do what she is doing, forget it.  That is a joke.  She made a choice to play on a team that she could make a huge difference on.  Her career shows she made the right choice.  I just wonder if someone asked her is she would make the claims you guys are?
Brooks, as far as her being the best ever from the ASC.  When she is voted to the Josten Award, MVP for the country,  then you can make that claim.   Personally I think it is silly when people argue who is better from different times.   Stats don't prove anything.  I would go as far as to admit that in her years at HPU no other player was as good. Keeping in mind that during  that time it has been HSU alone that has gone to the final four. Yes I did have to get that in.  The only thing she still has to prove is taking her team to where they have not gone before.  Example, Larry Byrd takes Ind. State to the finals, where of course he mets his future nemeis Magic.
As far as going to college games, dballa.  I live in a very remote northern Cal community.  To go to any college game I have to drive a solid two hours.  I'm not sure what the difference of watching them on television and being on the court is? I did go and see a young lady that I coached in the children basketball league.  I saw her twice and last year she graduated and made Honorable Mention  ALL American.  She was a point guard and not that big.  The beating her body took was horrible. She was DII, I could never see her having done the same in a DI school.
One thing I ask when responding to this.  Don't put words in my mouth that desrepect Daniels.  I'm just making comments about people who want to make her something she is not.

dballa,  thanks for bringing up Anderson, and Otwell.  I would have but I know how certain people hate it when we bring up the past.  The whole reason I made these comments was that when HSU fans made the same comments about them I didn't agree with them either.

[calhsu]

dballa one more thing.  I did watch the games when HSU played in the final four.  I think I saw some really good DIII players.   They had tall post players,  fast point guards, good shooting,  but I didn't see anyone on anyones team that would have been in the final four of the DI tourney.  And for that matter even the DII team games I saw and the NAIA games it is not the same. 

Be proud of your ladies, just don't make them something they are not.


All due respect to the mourning Cowboys fans.  I was one of the only people in NorCal that was disapointed also.  I can't imagine how bad things were the day after in Texas.  It could be worst.  You could be a 49er or Raider fan who had nothing to be proud of all year.

[dballa]

I don't think it has been said that players at the DIII level would be able to start on a team like Tennessee or UConn or any teams like that.  If they were able to do that there is no way they would be playing in DIII. 

What I was referencing to was your comment about if they had great speed or size they would be playing at the DI level.  That kind of back tracks your comments about them making a choice to play at the DIII level instead of a smaller DI school. 

I for one am glad some of these players are playing at this level, or else we could see some really bad basketball. 

[golden_dome]

Brooks, as far as her being the best ever from the ASC.  When she is voted to the Josten Award, MVP for the country,  then you can make that claim.   Personally I think it is silly when people argue who is better from different times.   Stats don't prove anything. 

I was not trying to argue with anyone, nor did I intend to disrespect any other players. I said that Daniels was the best DIII player I have personally seen in eight years and in my opinion is the best player to come through the ASC. I watched Kendra Anderson at HSU and thought she was a tremendous player, but I think Daniels has a bigger impact on games just because the ball is always in her hands.

The Jostens award is the most prestigious DIII award given out every year, but it is not a player of the year award or an MVP award. It is based on three criteria: basketball ability, academic ability and community service. It does not go to the best player in the country and I don't see how it proves one player is better than another.

I had a chance to watch Mississippi College play Alabama in an exhibition game earlier this season and Daniels could help that Alabama team. Alabama is near or at the bottom of the SEC and you are free to disagree with me, but Daniels would perform well on that particular team and is probably better than all but one guard I saw on BAMA's team.

It would be unfair for me to make a blanket statement that Meia Daniels is the best player in the country since I obviously have not had an opportunity to see everyone play, but I would be comfortable saying that I would not be surprised if she is the best DIII player in the country this year.

[hsusid]

I have said from her freshman year she is the most talented all-around player for this conference. I think Mark Simon can verify the amount I have pushed for her in preseason and postseason straw polls he has taken to get a different look at the conference.

That being said I don't want it to look like I am being critical so the following statements are only opinions on her prospects at a higher level, not what she does at our level. She dominates at this level and she could be up there with all of the best players in the country.

I think she could be a role player at a Division II or lower Division I. I don't know that she would start for a good team at either level. She does all of the little things for her team now and Chris has done a great job of building his team around her.

There was a time at the end of her sophomore year that she was the entire team. Blalock was still a project not a first-team all-leaguer at that point and everyone else was a role player. Buker hurt her knee and he had to put the ball in Daniels hands to win games and she delivered time and time again. She averaged like 32 points the last six or seven games of the year. He would spread the floor and she would hold it in the backcourt and bring it up with like 10 seconds and go to work.

That worked, until she got up against Lyssa Dennard and HSU. Dennard frustrated her into a 9-for-28 night in the NCAA Tournament. My point with that not being that HSU stopped her, but Lyssa at 5-10 was able to frustrate her and stop her offensively. Well most of the players in Division II or I at the three or even the two position are going to be closer to what Dennard was physically.

Obviously she has improved on it this year, but previous years she was not a good shooter. Not a pure shooter like that level needs. She is shooting 41 percent this year from 3. I have not seen her this year to make the judgment, but I always though her hole as a player was her shooting. She got away with shooting a lot of layups that she wouldn't get at another level.   

Defensively, I would have to see as well. She is great in their zone, but I don't know that we can tell from a man-to-man point how good a defender she is. I always had the sense he was trying to hide her in the back of the zone. Now that she is at the top of the zone she is getting a lot of steals so maybe not.

She has also improved her ball handling as well over the years.

Of course I am biased, but Kendra Anderson dominated the game on both ends of the floor. She could score against anyone. She was for my money the best player the conference has seen. She won five NCAA Tournament games, her team was undefeated in the 2004 season, three-time league MVP, four-time ASC Championship Tournament MVP, four-time ASC champion.

On a side note I think there are about seven or eight players in the nine years I have been in the league that could play roles at a higher level, but I don't know that there has been a starter.

Here is my list of the ones I think could have played a role. Obviously, this is all opinion, but having worked at both Division I and Division III I think I have a decent handle on it.

Those that could have played a role.

Meia Daniels
April Ramirez (great all-around player)
Lacey Pallamarez (before she became Kennedy)
Tarra Richardson 
Lauren Harris (5-10 and could shoot it)
Ogonna Merritt (super freak athletically)
Kathryn Otwell (was big enough to play the three at that level)


Other top players that were probably too small for their position
Kendra Anderson (5-9 posts are never seen at that level)
Diana Martinez (great all-around)
Symbri Tuttle (too short, but was amazing at our level)
Ashley Edwards (a step slow)
Lisa Martinez (before the attitude problems)

Again just an opinion from someone who has probably seen her play more games than anyone that is not an HPU fan.

[golden_dome]

Chad, were you at HSU when they had Kathryn Otwell? I never saw her and was wondering how she compared to Kendra Anderson, since her name was all over the ASC record books.

[Ralph Turner]

Great post, Chad!  +1

[hsusid]

Chris,

I saw Kathryn play three games. I came in between the ASC Tournament and the NCAA Tournament her senior year. She was a different player than Kendra, way more perimeter. She was more of a slasher and she shot more 3's. I think overall Kendra was a better player, but she did not play as big of a role until the postseason of her freshman year. Kathryn played a more prominent role as a frosh, thus giving her more points for her career. Kendra's final three years were remarkable and I saw all of those games.

BTW. KA averaged 23.8 points and 9.8 rebounds in her final three years in the NCAA Tournament.  Her most memorable game for me was her final game in a loss to eventual champion Trinity she had 34 and 11 and 19 came in the second half.

[calhsu]

Since no one else has mentioned it: how about those HSU Freshmen and transfers.  Standing at 10-2 with a rebuilt team has to be one of the best coaching the HSU coach has ever done.
Of course the real challenge will be against the awesome twosome.  I have a feeling that the MCM game will be a little closer than the last game.  Then in the first of the two games with HPU they will be in Brownwood first.  That could be tough.  I'm not cocky over the margin of victory they have been having.  Stats are just for D3hoops  people to go over when they have nothing else to speak of.

Thanks HSUSID for saying what I would liked to have said concerning the DI-D3 stuff.

By the way, like most years I get comments about how I should never say anything since I am not even on holy Texas ground.   Well this isn't a private chat room.  Even out here, I have been at least as correct (over the years) as those who go to every game.  I did meet the HSU coach once at homecoming last year and asked here to come out west some time.  Until that time I will remain one of the few conservatives in the state of California and will continue to keep in touch with my Texas roots. 

[Ralph Turner]

The McMurry HSU game next Monday will be big, coming after the CUA-UMHB swing.

That December game was one-in-a-lifetime.

I give the psychological edge to HSU when I try to look into the minds of the players.

The McMurry players remember the game.  I hope they put themselves into the shoes of the Cowgirls in trying to get prepared for the rematch.

As always with this rivalry and the HPU one,  I don't want to be greedy; I just want to win the last game of the season that we play these teams!   

[Ralph Turner]

Has anyone heard why the ETBU at Trinity TX game on Jan 14th was canceled?

The ETBU and the Trinity sites say the game was scheduled for San Antonio, but the D3hoops. com page says ETBU was hosting.  ASC web page shows that game was for San Antonio.

I wanted to see how that game came out!

[fanstand]

I think that there have been great players in this conference. I think the size of the players and the small towns they have come from have kept them in DIII. DI shooting guards are big.  DI coaches start looking at these kids when they are in junior high.  If you don't play in those AAU summer leagues where the big school coaches go or your team doesn't get to the state tournament or your high school coach is not aggressive it's hard to get those schools to notice you.  Many a girl from around here has gone to DI or DII and sat on the bench or not played at all.  Sometimes they come back to DIII and stand out.  What I love about DIII is they play because they love this game.  I think we work as hard, but these ladies are not near as spoiled as scholarship players.  They appreciate the opportunity to continue to play the game they love.  Not that scholarship athletes don't love the game too, but they are getting their education paid for and lots of perks.  I know you (guys) love when I spout my emotions, but I couldn't let you have all the say so.  Meia, Tarra, Kendra, Kat, Symbri have all left their mark in the ASC. I feel honored to have been able to watch them all play.  There will be great players to follow them also.........

[Ralph Turner]

I think that there have been great players in this conference. I think the size of the players and the small towns they have come from have kept them in DIII. DI shooting guards are big.  DI coaches start looking at these kids when they are in junior high.  If you don't play in those AAU summer leagues where the big school coaches go or your team doesn't get to the state tournament or your high school coach is not aggressive it's hard to get those schools to notice you.  Many a girl from around here has gone to DI or DII and sat on the bench or not played at all.  Sometimes they come back to DIII and stand out.  What I love about DIII is they play because they love this game.  I think we work as hard, but these ladies are not near as spoiled as scholarship players.  They appreciate the opportunity to continue to play the game they love.  Not that scholarship athletes don't love the game too, but they are getting their education paid for and lots of perks.  I know you (guys) love when I spout my emotions, but I couldn't let you have all the say so.  Meia, Tarra, Kendra, Kat, Symbri have all left their mark in the ASC. I feel honored to have been able to watch them all play.  There will be great players to follow them also.........

[Rick Akins]

This women's ASC board had been really really quiet for several weeks.  I would like to take full credit for the great discussion and opinions and yes even insights from so many of you since my question on Saturday about Coach Duke and his comments about DI talent, transfers,etc.

I have tried to think of something else that might inspire such detailed and fun discussion, but I give up!!  I will say I am still extremely excited about and proud of our (#2 ranked this week) HPU Lady Yellow Jackets, but the tough and close  game Saturday does make me somewhat nervous--although it is not too hard to do that to me--the glass is usually half empty!!  It also reminds me again that "pride goeth before a fall," so no predictions will be forthcoming about the rest of the year.

I do know that for HPU to have a chance to do what all of us who are HPU fans hope this year, our team will need to be much more than Meia and others.   I thought the difference last year and hopefully this year was that she did not have to make every play every game for us to succeed at the highest level. While in my opinion she is better than ever this year and especially better than last year particularly---quicker, more confident, better shooting---we will still need Stacey Blalock, Kim Hoffman and others to perform consistently at a high level. Perhaps some did not do it Saturday, or perhaps MC played outstanding (I only listened) but I believe they can and they have before.  The next few weeks will be interesting.  I have seen UMHB, Concordia, HSU, UTD, UTT and of course HPU in person and followed all the others.    I am worried about everyone(surprise!)  but it looks as if HSU is especially playing well now.  We who follow the ASC West will all see soon.

[Pat Coleman]

I know I'm a little late to this discussion but you shouldn't take the Jostens Award, which is based on academics and community service as well as basketball, as the be-all and end-all when it comes to the best basketball player in any measure.