MBB: Little East

Mr. Ypsi · February 08, 2012, 10:54:26 PM

hugenerd, you are fighting someone who is not fighting back.

I said the criteria are objective; I also said the handbook does not spell out how they are to be weighted (and that, usually, winning % and SOS will tell you all you need to know). I've been stressing objectivity because the initial response was to someone going way off the deep end about a run-amok committee. I've already stated elsewhere that the high ranking of RIC and the low rankings of MIT and AM made me scratch my head; even with the constraints of the criteria, I couldn't figure them. Despite the potential for abuse, I lean towards trusting the committee to be MORE subjective, allowing the 'eye test', 'bad losses', a 'diminishing-returns' MOV criterion, etc.

I feel your pain - MIT at #7 in the region is inexplicable. But please don't shoot the messenger!

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · February 08, 2012, 11:36:24 PM

Couple of things...

- The "once ranked, always ranked" was actually instituted last season...
- These are the first regional rankings... they give you an idea of what the regional committees are thinking, but how teams will actually selected in three weeks... there are more games to play and the RACs can readjust.
- The National Committee is keeping it in the hands of the regional committees to let them continually evolve with the system and the regions... but the national committee does reserve the right to go back to the RACs in the final poll used to select and bracket the teams and have them make adjustments if they don't agree with how the RAC voted.
- The SOS takes into account several things: your opponents regional record, their opponents' region record, how you did against teams on the road (W or L) and how you did at home (W or L). There is a strong weight for winning games on the road and less weight for a home win (i.e. play a lot of home games against weak opponents and you are not awarded for stellar record).
- Yes, there is a part of how you did against ranked teams.. but since this week is the first ranking, that doesn't really come into play fully.
- The NE committee is made up of an AD or coach from each conference in a region... in the NE they are:
Dave Lindberg, Worcester State College, chair
Larry Anderson, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Paul Culpo, Castleton State College
Tom Devitt, Wentworth Institute of Technology
Travis Farley, Fitchbug State University
Bill Geitner, Eastern Connecticut State University
David Hixon, Amherst College
Aaron Galetta, Lasell College
Ed Sliva, Elms College

If any of the teams being talked about are represented by a coach on the committee, that coach has to step off the call (i.e. Hixon, Geitner, and Anderson) when they talk about their school.

One thing I did notice while doing some other work, MIT's opponent's record is somewhat poor - 167-192. AM is 165-205 with only five teams with .500 records or better. Those are just the OWP records... we haven't even tackled the OOWP records...

Just some thoughts to consider.

PressBreaker · February 08, 2012, 11:47:12 PM

Mr. ypsi and everyone...

Much appreciated on how things are broken down and obviously it's a very difficult process. Definetly not shooting the messenger haha! Appreciate your efforts to brake it down for us. I think unfortunately for you, everyone is angry at the committee and it comes off like they are mad at you!

Judging by explanations I don't want to get ahead of myself and say something i shouldnt based on ignorance.

Here are two schedules and records. First is RIC. Second is Keene State. And I know they don't do this in the rankings, but Keene's one bad loss, against Williams on the road, was without two players in their regular rotation, one includes their 6'10" starting center. Maybe with a look at the schedules someone can offer me their opinion as to why RIC is so high, and Keene is so low.

RIC
DATE OPPONENT W/L SCORE ATTEND
------------ -------------------- --- ----- ------
11/15/11 CLARK W 70-52 525
11/17/11 at Becker W 60-52 341
11/19/11 LASELL W 72-69 274
11/22/11 at Bridgewater State University W 64-52 600
11/27/11 at Brandeis W 61-50 125
11/29/11 JOHNSON & WALES W 89-62 703
*12/03/11 at Plymouth State W 65-51 250
12/06/11 SALVE REGINA W 69-55 353
12/08/11 WPI W 57-47 332
*12/10/11 at Eastern Connecticut L 59-70 800
01/05/12 at Wheaton (MA) W 71-53 147
*01/07/12 UMASS BOSTON W 88-51 341
*01/10/12 SOUTHERN MAINE W 73-40 235
*01/14/12 at Keene State College L 91-92 800
*01/17/12 UMASS DARTMOUTH W 61-57 311
*01/21/12 PLYMOUTH STATE W 61-43 231
*01/24/12 at Western Connecticut L 87-93 345
*01/28/12 EASTERN CONNECTICUT W 66-48 341
1/31/12 at Amherst College L 69-79 450
*02/04/12 at UMass Boston W 75-51 89
*02/07/12 at UMass Dartmouth L 68-73 650

KEENE STATE
DATE OPPONENT W/L SCORE ATTEND
------------ -------------------- --- ----- ------
11/15/11 vs Colby-Sawyer W 87-73 275
11/18/11 UNIV. NEW ENGLAND W 87-51 711
11/19/11 SAINT LAWRENCE W 75-54 930
11/22/11 at MCLA W 103-75 50
11/29/11 at Springfield College L 79-85 542
*12/03/11 UMASS DARTMOUTH W 92-55 933
12-07-11 at Williams College L 74-103 512
*12/10/11 at UMass Boston W 89-65 576
12/18/11 vs Mt. St. Vincent W 106-99 -
12/19/11 at Nova Southeastern L 70-83 126
01/05/12 LASELL COLLEGE W 90-62 275
*1/7/12 at Southern Maine W 79-60 396
*01/10/12 WESTERN CONN. STATE L 87-94 623
*01/14/12 RHODE ISLAND COLLEGE W 92-91 800
*01/17/12 PLYMOUTH STATE W 71-61 1112
*01/21/12 at UMass Dartmouth W 70-68 125
*01/24/12 at Eastern Connecticut W 64-56 800
*01/28/12 UMASS BOSTON W 86-70 1144
01/31/12 MIDDLEBURY COLLEGE W 77-76 1995
02/02/12 at Saint Josephs (VT) W 84-83 133
*02/04/12 SOUTHERN MAINE W 92-57 1511
*02/07/12 at Plymouth State W 86-71 450

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · February 08, 2012, 11:49:04 PM

Remember that the games on Tuesday did not count towards the regional rankings this week... the RACs voted yesterday... and double-checking was done in the next 24 hours before they were released... games through Sunday counted, I believe.

7express · February 09, 2012, 12:07:14 AM

Win your conference, then you won't worry about getting in. Even though their in 8th, as long as Keene can win 1 of their final 3 games I don't see how theirs any way you can keep them out of the field even if they lose in the semifinals of the LEC tournament.

7express · February 09, 2012, 12:21:50 AM

Not to mention West Conn who is also ahead, has lost to two teams with well below 500 records.
----------------------------------

Not making excuses but we lost 1 of those games when we had 2 or 3 players out with injury, and the other game we lost was due to an absolutely horrific foul called 40 feet from the basket which gave USM 2 free throws with 2 seconds to play.

Mr. Ypsi · February 09, 2012, 12:40:03 AM

Another difference between polls and criterion-based rankings: rankings give ZERO credence to missing players, bad calls, etc. Poll voters might!

(And, of course, the rankings don't care whether you won or lost by 2 or 40; poll voters do.

)

ECSUalum · February 09, 2012, 09:40:14 AM

Quote from: warrior on February 08, 2012, 05:13:56 PM
7express - I'm with you - swap RIC w/Keene - definitely! The good news is, things should be a lot clearer by the end of next week!

As for last night's game - for a change, I have to disagree with you and my Eastern buddy ECSUAlum. The word "choke" never occurred to me. Choking implies crumbling under pressure. Yes we missed a bunch of free throws, but Chay and Chris, who missed most of them are just poor free throw shooters. But look at the rest of their games - Chay had a career night and Chris had 16 pts and 9 rebs! And what about Jamie and Ham hitting those big 3s down the stretch and Jamie hitting that baseline jumper to put us ahead - choke? Sorry, I don't see it.

Think about it - we take on arguably D3s greatest offensive weapon on his best night ever and we are STILL ahead with 4.5 seconds. We must have done SOMETHING right. Both teams played their hearts out and both teams came up with big play after big play. Perhaps I'm alone here, but I was very proud of our Warriors and believe great things still lie ahead.

Warrior,
I am going to redirect the discussion away from all the whining about the first NEregional poll

, geeze!! unbelievable!!
Firstly, I am one of the biggest supporters of ECSU athletics, in my attend @ M/W soccer, baseball, M/W basketball, softball on a regular basis, and financially, (I dont have a child playing). However, I feel that when an Eastern team, ( or any team for that matter), does not play up to expectations, they should be able to take a little CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. First of all it must of been a somewhat new experience for the boys to play in an arena where there was soo much crowd noise and cheering, (which IMHO is a good thing), however, that is just part of two very good teams playing college basketball and part of developing mental toughness on the court. I sensed, with 8 or so min left in the game, that Eastern became hesitant in running their offense in this environment and, additionally, got frustrated with Daquan's offensive takeover. I think this resulted in some ill timed TO's. It reminded me a bit of the first home game vs RIC last year where Eastern was rolling along and then Coach Walsh initiated the full press at 3 min left and the boys could not handle it, the final result being Mason Choices half court buzzer beater. I guess my point is that away from home vs an explosive team like WCSU and a 15 point lead, you REALLY need to stay focused, protect the ball, run the clock down and play tough D.
I must admit I did not realize, until I read Bob Molta's press release the next day, that both Nedwick AND Levy fouled out, I guess I was too wrapped up, (frustrated) in watching Daquan's success in scoring. However, if veterans Nedwick and Levy were in the game when Daquan drove the length of the court , it MAY have been a different result.
ECSU just has to chalk the WCSU game up to experience, as it will most likely be a similar environment at Keene next Tuesday and in the LEC tournament.
WRT FREE THROW SHOOTING, I am sorry, but 7express made the point, they are FREE THROWS, and if you are poor at this critical part of the game, you really need to spend time working on it, (or get Ives, or Garrow or Roveto to work with the person one on one), or strategize how to offset the weakness.

I dont know, may I'm wrong here, can anyone shed light on this? Is good FT % 80/20 mental/practice or 80/20 practice/mental. You look at a Brooks or a Ives or a Martin and it seems effortless, ( I know it isnt).

To wrap this up, I am the first to praise Chae and Chris on having outstanding years, but dont take the criticism personally, just try to learn fromyour past experiences.

PS Congrats to Jamie for repeating as a first-team selection to the College Sports Information Directors' Association (CoSIDA)/Capital One Academic All-District Team GREAT JOB!!!!!!!!
http://nutmeg.easternct.edu/mt-static/athletics/2012/02/m-basketball-cosida-cites-kohn-again.html

7express · February 09, 2012, 11:29:40 AM

As I said Tuesday even if Eastern goes 10-19 from the free throw line instead of 7-19, it's 99% likely they win the game, and mind you 10-19 would still be an awful percentage. You can practice them all you want, but for some people (I'm looking at you Chris Robitaille) it's mental. Once the baseball team got in the head of Robitaille late in the 2nd half, he had absolutely no chance when he stepped up to the line.

amh63 · February 09, 2012, 12:08:45 PM

The ranking discussion is most interesting and as I have posted elsewhere, it is only the first one and will change as the season ending games are played out.
ECSUAlum...nice comments...mature ones to Warrior, etc. Much different from your passionate post after the lost. Enjoyed your passion though. Just wanted to point out that I posted a less emotional one when Amherst lost a one point game to Wes. in Middletown. Amherst shot only about 60% from the foul line, while Wes. shot nearly 90% and had more foul attempts. In the Williams game, Amherst as a team shot more foul shots than Willams and shot over 93%. You can figure out what happened during practices between the games.
I also want to point out here that on the Amherst website in the u-tube area, LEC posters can find a highlight video of the Amherst vs. RIC game at Amherst. Amherst's coach Hixon states that Amherst is a better team for playing the Anchormen. RIC took it to Amherst and was ahead by 14 in the first half. Amherst came back and won. The Amherst players adjusted and adopted to the physical and athletic play of RIC. That is one reason for playing teams from the LEC....different styles, talent levels, etc.
7Express.....I will meet you on Friday in the lobby area(out of the cold) of the Alumni Gym starting at 5 PM. Look for an old man in a black leather jacket and golf hat....average point guard size.

ECSUalum · February 09, 2012, 01:37:44 PM

Quote from: amh63 on February 09, 2012, 12:08:45 PM
The ranking discussion is most interesting and as I have posted elsewhere, it is only the first one and will change as the season ending games are played out.
ECSUAlum...nice comments...mature ones to Warrior, etc. Much different from your passionate post after the lost. Enjoyed your passion though. Just wanted to point out that I posted a less emotional one when Amherst lost a one point game to Wes. in Middletown. Amherst shot only about 60% from the foul line, while Wes. shot nearly 90% and had more foul attempts. In the Williams game, Amherst as a team shot more foul shots than Willams and shot over 93%. You can figure out what happened during practices between the games.
I also want to point out here that on the Amherst website in the u-tube area, LEC posters can find a highlight video of the Amherst vs. RIC game at Amherst. Amherst's coach Hixon states that Amherst is a better team for playing the Anchormen. RIC took it to Amherst and was ahead by 14 in the first half. Amherst came back and won. The Amherst players adjusted and adopted to the physical and athletic play of RIC. That is one reason for playing teams from the LEC....different styles, talent levels, etc.
7Express.....I will meet you on Friday in the lobby area(out of the cold) of the Alumni Gym starting at 5 PM. Look for an old man in a black leather jacket and golf hat....average point guard size.

Yeah amh63, I must admit, I came home from Danbury steaming, and then took the laptop to see the results of the other LEC, CAC, NEWMAC, etc games. Then I probablly should have turned the computer off and sipped some wine and/or listen to some music, but I went to the darn LE thread and posted that dumb comment!! I dont know, to me free throw shooting has always been staight forward, but, everyone is different and in the heat of a hugh rivalry and conference game, and noisy crowd, I suppose its a different story, must admit, I have never been in that type of situation. I really do want the Warriors to graduate to the NCAA tournament this year, especally for Coach Geitner, and seniors Nick, Jamie, Ham, and Chae, who, as warrior stated, put their heart and soul into the team for 4 years, (2 in Chae's case and 10 for coach).

Saw Coach Hixon's comments re RIC, a class act all the way!!!!!

I must admit that even though the Warriors lost the game at the O'Neill center the other night, it had the air of a big time D-I game, a packed facility, with the band playing, kids screaming, and then running onto the court and mobbing Brooks and Robinson at the conclusion

...must of been a blast for 7express, I bet he had a few celebratory drinks that night!

7express · February 10, 2012, 12:12:15 AM

7Express.....I will meet you on Friday in the lobby area(out of the cold) of the Alumni Gym starting at 5 PM. Look for an old man in a black leather jacket and golf hat....average point guard size.
----------------------------------

Sorry, I know your traveling up here tomorrow morning, and probably won't get this before you leave, but I'll be in a UConn sweatshirt & Toronto baseball cap. Look forward to seeing you up there tomorrow.

7express · February 10, 2012, 12:15:23 AM

Quote from: ECSUalum on February 09, 2012, 01:37:44 PM
I must admit that even though the Warriors lost the game at the O'Neill center the other night, it had the air of a big time D-I game, a packed facility, with the band playing, kids screaming, and then running onto the court and mobbing Brooks and Robinson at the conclusion ...must of been a blast for 7express, I bet he had a few celebratory drinks that night!

When I got home I did. I was one of the kids that rushed the court afterwards however though.

Hopefully we get the same type atmosphere on Saturday. We'll need every bit of it, Keene's is one of the hottest teams in the country at the moment, not just in New England, can't think of many teams (any??) that are on 9 game winning streaks currently.

Hugenerd · February 10, 2012, 12:25:17 AM

Quote from: 7express on February 10, 2012, 12:15:23 AM
Quote from: ECSUalum on February 09, 2012, 01:37:44 PM
I must admit that even though the Warriors lost the game at the O'Neill center the other night, it had the air of a big time D-I game, a packed facility, with the band playing, kids screaming, and then running onto the court and mobbing Brooks and Robinson at the conclusion ...must of been a blast for 7express, I bet he had a few celebratory drinks that night!

When I got home I did. I was one of the kids that rushed the court afterwards however though.

Hopefully we get the same type atmosphere on Saturday. We'll need every bit of it, Keene's is one of the hottest teams in the country at the moment, not just in New England, can't think of many teams (any??) that are on 9 game winning streaks currently.

Hope- 17 game win streak
Albertus Magnus- 16 game
Cabrini- 13 game
Birmingham-Southern - 13 game

7express · February 10, 2012, 12:36:08 AM

Thanks for that HN

As for today's lone game RIC beats Bates 77-61.
John Squires of Bates lead game high scorers with 25, while Akinrola lead RIC with 20

Sat schedule
Dartmouth @ Eastern
Keene @ Western
RIC @ USM
Boston @ Plymouth. Moving day in the conference; Keene clinches at least a share of the conference with a win, and would win it outright if Eastern somehow loses at home to Dartmouth. Boston is eliminated from playoff contention with a loss to Plymouth. I'll have predictions before I head up to Amherst tomorrow afternoon.