Best attendance

[diehardfan]

Places like Wooster, Holland, and to a somewhat lesser extent Bloomington have limited competition for the entertainment dollar

So true. Can't imagine what people have to do in some of those places! 

[John Gleich]

Huh... when I played at UWSP, we used to WISH 18% of the student population would come to our games.  We more often than not had great crowds, but they were mostly families, boosters, local teams, etc...  The UWSP student population just didn't seem all that interested in partaking in something that didn't include copious amounts of alcohol, I suppose.  The ones that were there often times didn't seem like they weren't having very much fun... and I've concluded that this is because they weren't involved in the game.  Take a look at the great student sections throughout D-3, and beyond to the great ones in the D-1 ranks.  These are filled with loud, loyal students who want to be a part of the action, not just sit idly by while the game goes on, waiting for their friends to call their cell and tell them which bar they're going to.  All it takes is a little bit of dedication from some brave people who are even the slightest bit convincing... if everybody brings two friends and shows them that hey, this is really FUN.... it could be great.

Don't get me wrong... Point's been in the top 7 in the country in attendence since before I went to school there.  But the driving force in this was the community rather than the students.  And you could always count on it to be deafening when it came down to crunchtime... but when the games aren't close in the end (which many times they weren't... so what, we were good!) the fans wouldn't even get up out of their seats except to get another popcorn and coke at halftime.

I love Point's fans.  They were very good to us during my career there.  But there isn't any reason why the numbers shouldn't be up over 2000 every game, just like at the Big Three.

I have another theory... I noticed how unattatched the student body felt at times.  There wasn't necessarily a general feeling of community, which, from things I've heard friends of mine say who went to private schools, exists more explicitly at smaller private schools.  Students are required to stay in the dorms two years at Point, but many times they live in one dorm their freshman year and switch their sophomore year, then move off campus.  It seemed to me like if there was just a bit more structured community, be it from the entire dorm, or from a hall, or wing, things could have gotten off the ground.  All it needs is a spark.  I know that the Orange Crush at Illinois is a thriving student organization that actually does really big fund raisers in the community and raises money for charity and sponsors various scholarships.

Hmm... now that I'm a graduate and a lifetime member of the UWSP Alumni Association... maybe I'll start sending an email and or letter a day to the association that they should link up with the student government (or a similar organization that at least seems like it has some power) and get something like this started.

Anybody have an idea how the other student organizations got started?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Huh... when I played at UWSP, we used to WISH 18% of the student population would come to our games. 

PS,

I imagine you are already aware of this, but just in case - I never said 18% of UWSP students attended games, just that their total average attendance was 18% of the enrollment.  For all I know, the attendance is ALL townies aside from roommates and girlfriends of players!

That's why neither April's or David's adjustments for attendance will work.  I had no idea Calvin had such a large enrollment - they fell from 3rd to who knows, maybe 25th or so.  And forget about any urban school competing with a rural school with David's suggestion - even IWU only draws about 2% of the Bloomington-Normal metro area: a rural school averaging 100 fans might easily beat that!  (And NYU would have to average about 560,000 a game to hit 2%!)

[Pat Coleman]

Unfortunately NYU has to share that population with another 12 or so Division III schools.

[Pat Coleman]

Oh, and there might be other entertainment possibilities available.

[David Collinge]

Oh, and there might be other entertainment possibilities available.

Gee, honey, what shall we do tonight?  There's the Fantasticks; Bobby Short is back at the Carlyle; the Metropolitan is performing Julie Taymor's new production of Die Zauberflote;  hmmmm......Oh!  Staten Island is playing Medgar Evers!  When's the tipoff?

[diehardfan]

Oh, and there might be other entertainment possibilities available.

Gee, honey, what shall we do tonight?  There's the Fantasticks; Bobby Short is back at the Carlyle; the Metropolitan is performing Julie Taymor's new production of Die Zauberflote;  hmmmm......Oh!  Staten Island is playing Medgar Evers!  When's the tipoff?

Too funny, though I would have picked the Phantom of the Opera, and some jazz club in Harlem.

[John Gleich]

Huh... when I played at UWSP, we used to WISH 18% of the student population would come to our games. 

PS,

I imagine you are already aware of this, but just in case - I never said 18% of UWSP students attended games, just that their total average attendance was 18% of the enrollment.  For all I know, the attendance is ALL townies aside from roommates and girlfriends of players!

That's why neither April's or David's adjustments for attendance will work.  I had no idea Calvin had such a large enrollment - they fell from 3rd to who knows, maybe 25th or so.  And forget about any urban school competing with a rural school with David's suggestion - even IWU only draws about 2% of the Bloomington-Normal metro area: a rural school averaging 100 fans might easily beat that!  (And NYU would have to average about 560,000 a game to hit 2%!)

Yep, I knew that when I posted.  I was just saying that I wish there was more of a student contingent at the UWSP games.  The attendence at SP seemingly wouldn't change much if the school had far fewer than the 8700 students it currently has.  Now, there may be some nested implications (for instance, that many of the locals are Point alums, and with fewer students, there would be fewer alums), but it's an interesting discussion nonetheless.

It would be interesting to see stats for which we really DON'T have any information, such as how many students actually attend the games, and how much of the student population that is.  As I mentioned earlier, the feel I've gotten on private campuses as opposed to public ones, is that there's more of a community feel on the private campuses, and thus they tend to at least feel like they have an attatchment to the team, as a representative of their instutution.  On the public campuses I've been on, the fans who have been there are rooting for their team, but this is just a small contingent of the entire student population.

There's a pretty significant difference (at least as far as I see it) between the way athletic departments are able to draw public school students between the Big Boys at the D-I level and at the D-3 level.  Personally, I think it's marketing... but D-3 ISN'T the big show... we haven't got the budgets or resources of the D-I's, but I still think it would be possible for an athletic department to, perhaps, parter with the communications department or a similar academic department that could serve both of their purposes... it could give students practical experience with specific projects, and provide marketing and exposure for the athletic department.

[diehardfan]

you know, at a lot of schools schools that info should be available somewhere... like attendance minus tickets sold equals students present. Something something...

We just don't have access to the info.

[Greek Tragedy]

It would be interesting to see stats for which we really DON'T have any information, such as how many students actually attend the games, and how much of the student population that is. 

At Quandt, don't the students come into the gym from a different location, so they can show their student I.D. passes?  I would assume they count those...and I don't believe any other fans come in that way. 

With that said, the "student" section at Pointer games is pretty bad.  Of that, only about 1/4 of those students actually come for the game.  I usually sit next to that section (they are on the side of the court and I sit on the end line) and most of them are too busy socializing with people next to them and others are just talking on their cell phones, basically both sets not even paying attention to the game.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Huh... when I played at UWSP, we used to WISH 18% of the student population would come to our games. 

PS,

I imagine you are already aware of this, but just in case - I never said 18% of UWSP students attended games, just that their total average attendance was 18% of the enrollment.  For all I know, the attendance is ALL townies aside from roommates and girlfriends of players!

That's why neither April's or David's adjustments for attendance will work.  I had no idea Calvin had such a large enrollment - they fell from 3rd to who knows, maybe 25th or so.  And forget about any urban school competing with a rural school with David's suggestion - even IWU only draws about 2% of the Bloomington-Normal metro area: a rural school averaging 100 fans might easily beat that!  (And NYU would have to average about 560,000 a game to hit 2%!)

Johnson State in Vermont is in a town of maybe 4,000 (and that's only when school is in session).  I'm guessing they can pull 80 per game, although that might be a stress.

[sac]

At Wooster, there is little connection between the enrollment and the attendance at basketball games. Men's hoops is supported by the local community, most of whom have no other connection to the College. I've been to games there where the townies outnumbered the students by at least 10 or 15 to 1--and I'm talking about conference games while the school was in session. I suspect that the same is true for IWU, Hope, and probably others--maybe the whole list.

Perhaps it would be relevant to compare attendance to the population of the local community. Places like Wooster, Holland, and to a somewhat lesser extent Bloomington have limited competition for the entertainment dollar, and a perennially competitive local basketball team is a good draw in these towns, even if the student body is largely indifferent.

Actually Hope's attendance is largely people who have connections to the school..........one of the reason's Hope's attendance doesn't dip much is because there are few bandwagoner locals that hop on the train when things are going well, although that does happen it just makes tickets even harder to get.  I would guess the vast majority of season ticket holders are Hope alumni.......or at least very good donors.

Calvin is the same way, but their larger gym allows for the bandwagoners to hop on when things go well.........see Calvin attendance in 1992 and 2000 compared to other years.


Just an FYI the official population of Holland is 30-35,000 depending on which political party you ask but the surrounding townships and Zeeleand push the "Metro" Holland area near 100,000.

Grand Rapids is 175,00 with around 750,000 in the metro area.

Lets not forget ,  I would guess that Hope and Calvin have one of the larger alumni population percentages within a 20 mile radius of their schools around.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

When a school charges for tickets, that says something extra about the attendance base they are working with.  You have to take that into account before any of the other factors.  You couldn't give away 1,000 tickets at most d3s.

[sac]

When a school charges for tickets, that says something extra about the attendance base they are working with. You have to take that into account before any of the other factors. You couldn't give away 1,000 tickets at most d3s.

Even more so when a d3 school has a long waiting list for season tickets........let alone season tickets at all.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

When a school charges for tickets, that says something extra about the attendance base they are working with. You have to take that into account before any of the other factors. You couldn't give away 1,000 tickets at most d3s.

Even more so when a d3 school has a long waiting list for season tickets........let alone season tickets at all.

Let alone actual tickets at all.  I've been to a lot of d3 games, but outside of the NCAA tournament, I've never been handed or asked to produce a paper ticket anywhere.