Bumblin' B's

[Titan Q]

I don't know who's totally wrong, but I think diehardfan is totally right (see Daily Dose).

Here are my concerns with April's Daily Dose post:

#1
I do not think having an opinion regarding the Lincoln situation and being "upset about the tens of thousands of people in this nation of prosperity who lack access to safe drinking water, or for the one child that dies every five seconds from hunger around the world, or the billion people living below the poverty line around the world" are mutually exclusive.  I read that as April suggesting that they are. I'd like to believe that I can hold the opinion that what Lincoln did - having their All-American throwing up 3's in a game they were up 120 - was unsportsmanlike, and also be concerned about the social issues she references.

#2
This isn't a forum where we discuss "the tens of thousands of people in this nation of prosperity who lack access to safe drinking water, or for the one child that dies every five seconds from hunger around the world, or the billion people living below the poverty line around the world."  It is a Division III basketball website.  I am quite sure that many of us donate countless hours volunteering for the United Way, Easter Seals, the Boys and Girls Club, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, going on mission trips, and all kinds of other things to make a difference in small way.  But this isn't really the place we talk about that, is it?  This is the place we talk about basketball issues, and everyone posting thoughts on the Lincoln situation is doing exactly that.

#3
April's post is so random that it could apply anything written here on D3hoops.com.  For example, couldn't we say the same thing after a post discussing a Wooster/Georgetown (KY) game?  David Collinge gets done posting the X's and O's of the big game and is met with: "...let's use our gigantic DIII brains  to get upset about the tens of thousands of people in this nation of prosperity who lack access to safe drinking water, or for the one child that dies every five seconds from hunger around the world, or the billion people living below the poverty line around the world." OK, let's do that (somewhere else), but can we also talk about the D3 basketball issue too?

#4
The old "two wrongs don't make a right" philosophy, delivered straight from mom and dad.  I read April's message as suggesting that since "All of our teams have done something that has been in bad taste in the past" that Lincoln U's behavior is somehow less unacceptable, or that we should be more willing to brush it aside.  I disagree.  I'll support, and participate in, a separate forum discussing out-of-control student sections or unsportsmanlike behavior by student-athletes, etc, but also respect everyone that has chosen to comment on this topic.


I say this as someone who is a big April fan and someone who hopes she rejoins us here on Posting Up...I just don't understand, or agree with, her Daily Dose post.   

[ChicagoHopeNut]

>>About what was I wrong?<<

Nothing. Unless you're playing a team which has Osama bin Laden starting at center, there's no circumstance whatsoever where scoring 201 points and embarrassing and humiliating an opponent is OK.

HAHAHA, that is hilarious. However, Osama is 6'4" and putting up 201 on him may actually prove quite difficult.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Sometimes the evidence is SO clear that eyewitness testimony is unnecessary! 

The lawyer in me screams his disagreement with this.  Circumstantial evidence is never clear enough to render eyewitness testimony unnecessary, when that testimony is available. 

I certainly hope that the lawyer in you was trained that a plethora of studies shows that eyewitness testimony is consistently the LEAST reliable of forms of evidence!  Given that Lincoln's players with the LEAST game time coming in, had the LEAST game time against OSU-M, and given that Sami Wylie dissed Kyle Myrick by scoring 36 of the LAST 56 points against a hopelessly outmanned team (to pass him in the record book), can you understand why I say that the verdict is quite clear!  (You came up with things that are not flat-out impossible, but none are plausible to explain the result.  The verdict may not be 'beyond a shadow of a doubt', but it is certain 'beyond a reasonable doubt' - since I didn't ask for the death penalty, that is sufficient! )

Yuille f***ed up and Lincoln owes OSU-M a public apology.

[David Collinge]

April's unlikely to reappear to defend herself, but you and I read her post quite differently.

I think the primary point of her comments was that people were overreacting to the game, and that everyone should calm down and regain our perspective.  Whatever unsportsmanlike behavior there was on Lincoln's part was similar to (even in some cases less than) unsportsmanlike conduct we all have seen and not objected to (or at least didn't blow up into a firestorm like this one has.)  That doesn't mean we should "be willing to brush it aside," but rather that we should realize that there's some pot-kettle in all of these comments.  Once that perspective has been regained, we can rationally discuss it, not forgetting how relatively trivial the whole issue is in the grand scheme of things.  I agree with this interpretation of her comments entirely; others may not.

Nowhere does she say that you can't be concerned about both world hunger and D3 hoops (#1).  Nowhere does she say that we should discuss safe drinking water to the exclusion of d3 basketball, or in fact discuss them at all in this forum (#2, #3).  In fact, I think her comments about "poverty, genocide, famine, epidemics" as compared to the current storm were intended as a purposeful exaggeration; this is further suggested by the smiley and winky faces and the phrase "seriously, though" immediately after their introduction.  Unfortunately, however, they have obscured what I think is the main point, in the paragraph between the mentions of world problems.

[Gregory Sager]

I'm just going to step in and say that I've really enjoyed this discussion. Lots of thoughtful responses, both in a larger philosophical sense and in a narrower, basketball-analysis sense. I especially applaud PS's post (the one about ribbons and cookies). The interesting thing, too, is that I find myself agreeing with well-articulated statements being made by both sides of arguments that have completely differing perspectives (Chuck & OxyBob vs. DC, Titan Q vs. April).

I do think that Chuck's injection of political partisanship detracted from the discussion, however. Why rile up people on the other side of the political fence from you and in so doing risk alienating people who may otherwise be nodding their heads at some of the good points you've made about the way Coach Yuille handled Saturday's game?

I got pretty annoyed by the news of Lincoln's gut-stomp of OSUM, and the excellent detective work done by HF regarding the box score has only deepened my annoyance. At the same time, I was on the other side of this argument this fall in Post Patterns, when some of the North Central guys started harping on North Park's 104-32 football win over NCC back in 1968. My point then was, "This game probably took place long before any of you Cardinals fans were born. Aside from Dennis Prikkel, how many people who use this website were even there that day to speak about this game from an eyewitness perspective? A box score doesn't tell you all the facts." So I'm a little more inclined to take DC's advice and err on the side of caution, because not everything in sports can be condensed into a box score. Still, the box score evidence is pretty damning against Lincoln.

How's that for an equivocating statement? 

[AndOne]

* There can be NO justification whatsoever for the total lack of class shown by Lincoln University!  Sad

* Did anyone mention that the other team dressed only 6 players?

* The 5 Lincoln players who had played the fewest minutes so far this year (theoretically the 5 worst players) should have played the ENTIRE 2nd half. But no, that wasn't possible because Lincoln (Stinkin') U was ONLY up by 53 at the half! They had to outscore the other team by 70 in the 2nd half to really show whos boss.

* You tell your players to play hard, BUT-----
       ---Not to shoot ANY 3s
       ---Run the shot clock down to 10 before beginning to run a play

* The Lincoln head coach was nothing less than a COMPLETE ASS----! He should be
suspended by the University for AT LEAST one game for poor sportsmanship & lack of control over the basketball program.
The purpose of having one of the starters play the last 9 1/2 minutes was?

* As far as the guy who took 41 3s-------> I hope his frickin' arm falls off!

* The Lincoln basketball web site indicates "Discipline, Desire, Dedication."
More like LACK of discipline, Desire to KICK your opponent, Decication to LACK OF CLASS.
       

[wilburt]

Good Job Lincoln University.  Forget "AndOne" and his stupid @$$ comments.  If Grinnell had done the same thing they would be singing their praises! 

Go Lincoln...  And check out this article!

http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/article_02355.shtml

[ChicagoHopeNut]

Wilburt, You have no idea what you are talking about because Grinnell has never gone out and won by 123. I am sure they would receive the same criticism if they did. I would be happy to start the criticism myself. To suggest this is a race related cricicism of Lincoln's display is disgusting.

[wilburt]

Thank you DCHopeNUT for your well informed and insightful opinion! Check out the article!

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/16164814.htm

[ChicagoHopeNut]

Wilburt, How does that article change a thing? Lincoln's coach feels bad because the school is getting negative publicity? He still never called off the press! He could have taken minimal steps and still won by 80. You're first article and the comment about Grinnell is what i was referring to. The second article changes nothing.

[wilburt]

Thanks again DCHopeNUT for another well informed and insightful opinion!

[ChicagoHopeNut]

You're welcome.

[joehakes]

Before this fades off into silly banter like the last few posts (sorry!) it should be noted that the discussion here is very valuable.  The various perspectives that are expressed here show the huge differences in how we all take in the world around us.  Thanks again to d3hoops.com for allowing a national forum on the issues of sportsmanship and class. 

I don't want to take sides in this, although if I did, I would have a pretty strong opinion.  At the end of the day, there is a reason why we spend all this time on this board and watch TV sports and encourage our kids to play, etc.  The reason is that we think that it is important.  Examining what is important to us is necessary in how we look at our culture and society compared to others around the world. While I won't make too strong a connection between this particular game and world events, we all need to periodically take stock of who we are and what we think. 

Keep thinking about what these games (and this one in particular) mean.  As Dan Quayle said, "It's a terrible thing to waste one's mind."

[AndOne]

* There can be NO justification whatsoever for the total lack of class shown by Lincoln University!  Sad

* Did anyone mention that the other team dressed only 6 players?

* The 5 Lincoln players who had played the fewest minutes so far this year (theoretically the 5 worst players) should have played the ENTIRE 2nd half. But no, that wasn't possible because Lincoln (Stinkin') U was ONLY up by 53 at the half! They had to outscore the other team by 70 in the 2nd half to really show whos boss.

* You tell your players to play hard, BUT-----
       ---Not to shoot ANY 3s
       ---Run the shot clock down to 10 before beginning to run a play

* The Lincoln head coach was nothing less than a COMPLETE ASS----! He should be
suspended by the University for AT LEAST one game for poor sportsmanship & lack of control over the basketball program.
The purpose of having one of the starters play the last 9 1/2 minutes was?

* As far as the guy who took 41 3s-------> I hope his frickin' arm falls off!

* The Lincoln basketball web site indicates "Discipline, Desire, Dedication."
More like LACK of discipline, Desire to KICK your opponent, Decication to LACK OF CLASS.
       

Good Job Lincoln University.  Forget "AndOne" and his stupid @$$ comments.  If Grinnell had done the same thing they would be singing their praises! 

Go Lincoln...  And check out this article!

http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/article_02355.shtml

Wilburt---

Your failure to understand the concept of what I posted about and to dismiss my comments as "stupid" only shows you have absolutely NO understanding of the real meaning of both sportsmanship and class. Going one step further, I doubt you can even grasp the concept that collegiate sports are meant to enhance the academic experience by teaching values such as fair play, working together/teamwork, victory with class, and most of all, respect for your opponnent and his views/feelings.

Sure the Lincoln coach can "apologize" as an afterthought and in the face of a ton of well deserved criticism. But his saying things like "I am not happy with the 201 points," and "they came 5 hours to play basketball" only serve notice that he is saying the right thing out of one side of his mouth while lying out of the other side.
If he wasn't happy with the 201 points, he could have done some of the things suggested in my above post to hold down the score. Also, he is only contradicting himself by saying "they came 5 hours to play basketball" as if thats justification for the 201 points! What a complete ass to attempt to justify the brand of gangster ball he allowed his team to display.

Lastly, the most despicable act of all may have been your inclusion of the article about the black athlete. Was that done to support your contention we shouldn't crucify Lincoln because they're black?

By including that article you only serve to add evidence to the fact that you are both the most clueless and classless Neanderthal I have ever seen post here!

Go ahead and give me another negative Karma point like you did in the Mid-Atlantic
Region after you read my above/initial post there. It will only further prove your lack of class.

     

 

[AndOne]

Before this fades off into silly banter like the last few posts (sorry!) it should be noted that the discussion here is very valuable.  The various perspectives that are expressed here show the huge differences in how we all take in the world around us.  Thanks again to d3hoops.com for allowing a national forum on the issues of sportsmanship and class. 

I don't want to take sides in this, although if I did, I would have a pretty strong opinion.  At the end of the day, there is a reason why we spend all this time on this board and watch TV sports and encourage our kids to play, etc.  The reason is that we think that it is important.  Examining what is important to us is necessary in how we look at our culture and society compared to others around the world. While I won't make too strong a connection between this particular game and world events, we all need to periodically take stock of who we are and what we think. 

Keep thinking about what these games (and this one in particular) mean.  As Dan Quayle said, "It's a terrible thing to waste one's mind."

Joe---

EXTREMELY well said!

You did it like I should have after I took a step back and exhaled rather than posting while my blood was still boiling.

I still think I'm right in what I said if not in how I expressed it. If nothing else I hope my above post at least shows I care about D3 Hoops and value the fact that all sports (should) only enhance the overall higher educational experience.