Top 25 discussion

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared -- Midweek report

I think I have most of the bugs ironed out, but let me know if you see any problems ...

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	622	Amherst	5-0	def. Keene State, 85-44; 12/04 vs. Emerson; 12/05 vs. TBA
#2	590	Hope	5-0	def. North Park, 74-47; 12/04 at Alma
#3	568	Christopher Newport	4-0	def. Shenandoah, 74-62; 12/04 vs. Peace
#4	536	Kean	5-0	def. New Jersey, 72-56; 12/04 at New Jersey City
#5	487	Carthage	5-0	12/05 vs. Robert Morris-Chi.
#6	450	Washington U.	3-1	12/03 vs. University of New England; 12/04 vs. TBA
#7	436	Mount Union	4-0	def. Wittenberg, 75-62; 12/04 at Otterbein
#8	417	UW-Stevens Point	5-1	def. UW-Stout, 79-55; 12/04 at T#39 UW-River Falls
#9	413	Williams	5-0	def. Westfield State, 72-42; 12/03 vs. RPI; 12/04 vs. Skidmore
#10	391	Babson	5-0	def. Wheaton (Mass.), 65-35; 12/04 at Smith
#11	374	DePauw	3-1	12/03 vs. Birmingham-Southern; 12/05 vs. Rhodes
#12	350	Rochester	4-1	def. Nazareth, 56-45; 12/02 vs. William Smith; 12/04 vs. TBA
#13	302	Illinois Wesleyan	2-2	12/04 vs. Chicago; 12/06 at St. Francis (Ill.)
#14	293	Thomas More	5-0	def. Grove City, 86-53; 12/04 at Chatham
#15	247	William Paterson	6-0	def. Montclair State, 90-76
#16	200	UW-La Crosse	6-1	LOST to #23 UW-Whitewater, 62-83; 12/04 at T#34 UW-Eau Claire
#17	172	George Fox	5-2	def. Willamette, 60-38; 12/04 at Pacific Lutheran
#18	158	Muhlenberg	4-0	12/02 vs. Swarthmore; 12/04 at Washington College
#19	134	St. Benedict	3-0	12/01 at St. Catherine; 12/04 vs. St. Olaf; 12/06 vs. Hamline; 12/06 vs. Hamline
#20	122	Colby	4-0	def. Maine Maritime, 72-53; 12/04 at #30 Bowdoin
#21	118	Gettysburg	4-1	def. Bryn Mawr, 72-35; 12/02 vs. #37 Johns Hopkins
#22	100	St. Vincent	5-0	def. Thiel, 77-57; 12/04 at Westminster (Pa.)
#23	97	UW-Whitewater	4-1	def. #16 UW-La Crosse, 83-62; 12/04 at UW-Stout
#24	90	Lebanon Valley	6-1	def. Elizabethtown, 67-61; 12/04 at Alvernia
#25	68	Medaille	3-1	def. Penn State-Behrend, 74-63; 12/04 at Pitt-Greensburg

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	61	New York University	4-1	LOST to Farmingdale State, 50-59; 12/04 vs. Baruch
#27	51	Western Connecticut	4-1	def. Connecticut College, 54-41; 12/04 vs. Southern Maine
#28	38	Puget Sound	3-1	12/03 vs. Willamette; 12/04 vs. Pacific
#29	35	St. Norbert	2-1	12/03 vs. Grinnell; 12/04 vs. Monmouth
#30	33	Bowdoin	3-1	def. Southern Maine, 63-51; 12/04 vs. #20 Colby
#31	32	Lewis and Clark	3-2	12/03 vs. Whitworth; 12/04 vs. #33 Whitman
#32	23	Messiah	4-2	def. Lycoming, 53-37; 12/04 at Widener
#33	17	Whitman	3-1	12/03 at Linfield; 12/04 at #31 Lewis and Clark
T#34	15	UW-Eau Claire	4-2	def. UW-Oshkosh, 64-52; 12/04 vs. #16 UW-La Crosse
T#34	15	Wisconsin Lutheran	3-0	def. Alverno, 69-54
T#34	15	Mississippi College	6-0	12/02 at Sul Ross State; 12/04 at Howard Payne
#37	12	Johns Hopkins	5-1	def. Washington College, 73-50; 12/02 at #21 Gettysburg; 12/04 vs. Dickinson
#38	9	DeSales	3-3	LOST at Manhattanville, 58-66; 12/04 vs. Delaware Valley
T#39	8	Utica	3-2	LOST to Hamilton, 50-58; 12/02 vs. SUNYIT
T#39	8	UW-River Falls	4-1	def. UW-Superior, 78-58; 12/04 vs. #8 UW-Stevens Point
#41	4	Louisiana College	4-0	12/02 at Howard Payne; 12/04 at Sul Ross State
T#42	3	Baldwin-Wallace	4-1	def. Heidelberg, 67-50; 12/04 vs. Kenyon
T#42	3	Eastern Connecticut	5-0	def. Vassar, 65-37; 12/04 at Rhode Island College
T#44	2	Coe	2-1	12/01 at Buena Vista; 12/04 vs. Simpson
T#44	2	Gallaudet	4-0	def. Wilson, 71-38; 12/04 at Wells; 12/05 at Keuka
T#44	2	Mary Washington	3-2	def. Stevenson, 54-41; 12/03 at Frostburg State
#47	1	Calvin	4-2	def. Adrian, 75-40; 12/04 at St. Mary's (Ind.)

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Interesting article on Greensboro College's website.

http://www.greensborocollegesports.com/news/2010/12/3/WBB_1203101600.aspx?path=wbball

I am not going to say whether or not they should be in the poll, but they tend to back up their fast starts.

In perspective their 27-3 season opponents after their 5-0  start had a winning % of .313, this season the 5-0 start opponents have a .373 winning percentage.  Plus GC, hasn't played a home game yet.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared

This still does not include information about overtime or neutral-court games, but should be otherwise complete.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	622	Amherst	7-0	def. Keene State, 85-44; def. Emerson, 93-29; def. Richard Stockton, 95-64
#2	590	Hope	6-0	def. North Park, 74-47; def. Alma, 70-44
#3	568	Christopher Newport	5-0	def. Shenandoah, 74-62; def. Peace, 95-47
#4	536	Kean	6-0	def. New Jersey, 72-56; def. New Jersey City, 96-26
#5	487	Carthage	6-0	def. Loras, 58-57; def. Robert Morris-Chi., 64-62
#6	450	Washington U.	5-1	def. University of New England, 64-53; def. Elmhurst, 61-36
#7	436	Mount Union	5-0	def. Wittenberg, 75-62; def. Otterbein, 68-64
#8	417	UW-Stevens Point	6-1	def. UW-Stout, 79-55; def. T#39 UW-River Falls, 75-67
#9	413	Williams	7-0	def. Westfield State, 72-42; def. RPI, 58-47; def. Skidmore, 68-50
#10	391	Babson	6-0	def. Worcester State, 67-35; def. Wheaton (Mass.), 65-35; def. Smith, 62-49
#11	374	DePauw	5-1	def. Birmingham-Southern, 68-39; def. Rhodes, 68-37
#12	350	Rochester	6-1	def. Nazareth, 56-45; def. William Smith, 85-51; def. Roberts Wesleyan, 71-64
#13	302	Illinois Wesleyan	3-2	def. Chicago, 76-75
#14	293	Thomas More	6-0	def. Grove City, 86-53; def. Chatham, 65-36
#15	247	William Paterson	6-0	def. Montclair State, 90-76
#16	200	UW-La Crosse	7-1	LOST to #23 UW-Whitewater, 62-83; def. T#34 UW-Eau Claire, 64-50
#17	172	George Fox	6-2	def. Willamette, 60-38; def. Pacific Lutheran, 83-45
#18	158	Muhlenberg	6-0	def. Swarthmore, 86-67; def. Washington College, 68-47
#19	134	St. Benedict	4-1	def. St. Catherine, 57-52; LOST to St. Olaf, 61-62
#20	122	Colby	4-1	def. Maine Maritime, 72-53; LOST at #30 Bowdoin, 64-70
#21	118	Gettysburg	4-2	def. Bryn Mawr, 72-35; LOST to #37 Johns Hopkins, 52-59
#22	100	St. Vincent	6-0	def. Thiel, 77-57; def. Westminster (Pa.), 72-47
#23	97	UW-Whitewater	5-1	def. #16 UW-La Crosse, 83-62; def. UW-Stout, 83-64
#24	90	Lebanon Valley	7-1	def. Elizabethtown, 67-61; def. Alvernia, 66-53
#25	68	Medaille	4-1	def. Penn State-Behrend, 74-63; def. Pitt-Greensburg, 59-46

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	61	New York University	4-2	LOST to Farmingdale State, 50-59; LOST to Baruch, 66-79
#27	51	Western Connecticut	5-1	def. Connecticut College, 54-41; def. Southern Maine, 71-55
#28	38	Puget Sound	5-1	def. Willamette, 68-45; def. Pacific, 79-37
#29	35	St. Norbert	4-1	def. Grinnell, 88-46; def. Monmouth, 66-33
#30	33	Bowdoin	4-1	def. Southern Maine, 63-51; def. #20 Colby, 70-64
#31	32	Lewis and Clark	4-3	LOST at Warner Pacific, 73-74; LOST to Whitworth, 76-79; def. #33 Whitman, 62-55
#32	23	Messiah	4-3	def. Lycoming, 53-37; LOST at Widener, 77-83
#33	17	Whitman	4-2	def. Linfield, 65-55; LOST at #31 Lewis and Clark, 55-62
T#34	15	UW-Eau Claire	4-3	def. UW-Oshkosh, 64-52; LOST to #16 UW-La Crosse, 50-64
T#34	15	Wisconsin Lutheran	4-0	def. Alverno, 69-54
T#34	15	Mississippi College	8-0	def. Schreiner, 70-45; def. Sul Ross State, 87-61; def. Howard Payne, 68-64
#37	12	Johns Hopkins	7-1	def. Washington College, 73-50; def. #21 Gettysburg, 59-52; def. Dickinson, 58-35
#38	9	DeSales	4-3	LOST at Manhattanville, 58-66; def. Delaware Valley, 69-60
T#39	8	Utica	4-2	LOST to Hamilton, 50-58; def. SUNYIT, 75-53
T#39	8	UW-River Falls	4-2	11/29 vs. Martin Luther; def. UW-Superior, 78-58; LOST to #8 UW-Stevens Point, 67-75
#41	4	Louisiana College	6-0	def. Texas Lutheran, 98-58; def. Howard Payne, 79-69; def. Sul Ross State, 93-48
T#42	3	Baldwin-Wallace	5-1	def. Heidelberg, 67-50; def. Kenyon, 73-63
T#42	3	Eastern Connecticut	6-0	def. Vassar, 65-37; def. Rhode Island College, 71-47
T#44	2	Coe	3-2	def. Buena Vista, 66-55; LOST to Simpson, 63-78
T#44	2	Gallaudet	6-0	def. Wilson, 71-38; def. Wells, 81-62; def. Keuka, 60-57
T#44	2	Mary Washington	4-2	def. Stevenson, 54-41; def. Frostburg State, 51-46
#47	1	Calvin	5-2	def. Adrian, 75-40; def. St. Mary's (Ind.), 76-55

[Darryl Nester]

Interesting article on Greensboro College's website.

http://www.greensborocollegesports.com/news/2010/12/3/WBB_1203101600.aspx?path=wbball
...

Based on this note, I had intended to include Greensboro in my "other teams to consider list," but forgot.  (Had I done so, there would have been only one game to report in the last week, anyway.)  In the interest of including the relevant information for voters, here is what GC has done this season:

11/15/2010	Guilford College	W 81-58
11/20/2010	Lynchburg College	W 88-51
11/21/2010	Emory & Henry College	W 75-46
11/27/2010	Piedmont College	W 80-62
12/1/2010	Methodist University	W 58-43

[troutman]

Well  according to the internet there is 449 division 3 teams in the nation. To be mentioned in the top 50 is an unbelievable feat.The coaches and players are giving 100% every day on the court, in the class room, and in the community's.My daughter plays for Gallaudet University and she is very humbled that they have made a mark on the list so soon.In the end someone will win the whole nine yards and I guess thats why they play the game.(And by the way the next time you want to see what its like to be a deaf player put plugs in your ears and play a whole game without hearing the refs, the coach, or your teammates.Its like bring a gun to a knife fight but those girls never make excuses they just love the game of basketball)

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Well  according to the internet there is 449 division 3 teams in the nation. To be mentioned in the top 50 is an unbelievable feat.The coaches and players are giving 100% every day on the court, in the class room, and in the community's.My daughter plays for Gallaudet University and she is very humbled that they have made a mark on the list so soon.In the end someone will win the whole nine yards and I guess thats why they play the game.(And by the way the next time you want to see what its like to be a deaf player put plugs in your ears and play a whole game without hearing the refs, the coach, or your teammates.Its like bring a gun to a knife fight but those girls never make excuses they just love the game of basketball)

I think the ranking is well deserved, I hope they continue to climb.  I've seen Gallaudet play a few time in the past, when they were struggling to win ball games.  I thought the team was very athletic and very close to being competitive.  Good luck on the rest of your season. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Well  according to the internet there is 449 division 3 teams in the nation. To be mentioned in the top 50 is an unbelievable feat.The coaches and players are giving 100% every day on the court, in the class room, and in the community's.My daughter plays for Gallaudet University and she is very humbled that they have made a mark on the list so soon.In the end someone will win the whole nine yards and I guess thats why they play the game.(And by the way the next time you want to see what its like to be a deaf player put plugs in your ears and play a whole game without hearing the refs, the coach, or your teammates.Its like bring a gun to a knife fight but those girls never make excuses they just love the game of basketball)

I think the ranking is well deserved, I hope they continue to climb.  I've seen Gallaudet play a few time in the past, when they were struggling to win ball games.  I thought the team was very athletic and very close to being competitive.  Good luck on the rest of your season. 

One of my bowling teammates is totally blind.  His daughter is totally deaf, and just finished a VERY successful career on the Gallaudet soccer team.  I am astounded at how well they coped (especially as the mother is wheel-chair bound).  He is fluent in ASL, and she learned to talk well enough to be easily understood.  An amazing family.

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Interesting article on Greensboro College's website.

http://www.greensborocollegesports.com/news/2010/12/3/WBB_1203101600.aspx?path=wbball
...

Based on this note, I had intended to include Greensboro in my "other teams to consider list," but forgot.  (Had I done so, there would have been only one game to report in the last week, anyway.)  In the interest of including the relevant information for voters, here is what GC has done this season:

11/15/2010	Guilford College	W 81-58
11/20/2010	Lynchburg College	W 88-51
11/21/2010	Emory & Henry College	W 75-46
11/27/2010	Piedmont College	W 80-62
12/1/2010	Methodist University	W 58-43

What only 2 votes   Good Job GC

As for Gallaudet, congrats on the continued rise in the polls.  Nice win the other night on the road, at a very competitive Keuka team. 

[Just Bill]

So last week, UWSP had lost to Milikin and they fell from 6th to 8th.  Seems reasonable.

This week, they went 2-0 and fell from 8th to 18th??  What am I missing?

[sunny]

So last week, UWSP had lost to Milikin and they fell from 6th to 8th.  Seems reasonable.

This week, they went 2-0 and fell from 8th to 18th??  What am I missing?

You're missing that the UWSP v UWRF score was originally reported incorrectly and went out that way to the voters.  UWSP would be ranked a lot higher and UWRF would likely not be ranked at all had that mix-up not occurred.

[Just Bill]

That's a pretty big gaffe. I guess it will correct itself next week, but that's going to look awfully strange for the next few days.

[Ralph Turner]

So last week, UWSP had lost to Milikin and they fell from 6th to 8th.  Seems reasonable.

This week, they went 2-0 and fell from 8th to 18th??  What am I missing?

You're missing that the UWSP v UWRF score was originally reported incorrectly and went out that way to the voters.  UWSP would be ranked a lot higher and UWRF would likely not be ranked at all had that mix-up not occurred.

I think that we can one blame that on Julian Assange as part of a WIAC dis-information campaign.  

[troutman]

Well thank all of you who has kind words for the Gallaudet Women's Basketball team.They all try hard. Looks like they just got 25 votes for the second week pole.Also just to mention 6 girls off this team traveled to Poland this summer with the USA Basketball team an won a Gold metal.My daughter was thrilled at the chance to reperesent her country.

[Brookland]

Concerning the lack of recognition for Greensboro, I'll make two observations:
1) I think the relative weakness of their schedule so far has hurt them
2) I have seen them play and they are for real.
I think they will have to continue to win and then either beat CNU or lose by a small margin to make it into the poll. I will also say that while I agree that CNU is a great team and deserves its ranking, if anyone in the USA South can beat them it will be Greensboro. I don't think CNU has an answer to Danielle Duncan, so the game will come down to GC's inside game vs. CNU's speed and sharpshooting. It should be a great game.

I will also offer up the observation that no team in the ODAC is even mentioned anywhere in the poll discussion, despite having not one but two teams that have beaten UMW, who IS still in the running for inclusion in the poll. So, lack of recognition is not limited to the USA South...

[sunny]

Concerning the lack of recognition for Greensboro, I'll make two observations:
1) I think the relative weakness of their schedule so far has hurt them
2) I have seen them play and they are for real.
I think they will have to continue to win and then either beat CNU or lose by a small margin to make it into the poll. I will also say that while I agree that CNU is a great team and deserves its ranking, if anyone in the USA South can beat them it will be Greensboro. I don't think CNU has an answer to Danielle Duncan, so the game will come down to GC's inside game vs. CNU's speed and sharpshooting. It should be a great game.

I will also offer up the observation that no team in the ODAC is even mentioned anywhere in the poll discussion, despite having not one but two teams that have beaten UMW, who IS still in the running for inclusion in the poll. So, lack of recognition is not limited to the USA South...

Greensboro will get more looks if they keep winning and obviously when they play CNU.  Schedule has been soft and it is awfully hard to vote for a team this early "just" because they are undefeated. Eventually, as teams lose, unbeaten teams make their way into the poll, regardless of schedule strength.

As for Mary Wash and the ODAC, that is unfortunately part of the dirty nature of having a preseason poll. (I mean Messiah still got a vote this week!) IMHO, Mary Wash is still getting looks only because of where they were in the preseason. I have Bridgewater on my list of "other teams" sitting just outside the top 25; Mary Wash is nowhere to be seen for me right now. Of course that's not to say Mary Wash couldn't play their way back into my top 25 - I still think they will have a very good season, just wouldn't consider them poll-consideration worthy right now.