Top 25 discussion

[Pat Coleman]

So does D3hoops.com -- Chicago has lost three games, all away from home. Unbeaten at home, and the voters know that's a tough trip. We'll see if Rochester fares better at home, I suppose.

[ichouse]

which teams can ill-afford a loss? meaning they would no longer have top 25 consideration

[jumphigh]

I have noticed the amount of total points garnered by  "others getting votes" went from a total of 430 points last week to 206 points this week. i would guess the pollsters are getting a clearer picture of the top 25

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

(They are expected to beat Peace prior to CNU, but stranger things have happened before at Peace)

score was reported wrong to d3hoops.  77-56 not 77-67.  Like i said stranger things have happened at Peace.   Also Peace played Greensboro pretty tight at some points. Greensboro doesn't generally play very well there.

[David Collinge]

#18 Denison overcomes one of their last major obstacles, dropping Wittenberg (8-8) in Springfield 60-49.  Denison moves to 17-0, setting a school record for consecutive victories.  The Big Red still have to face Wittenberg and Ohio Wesleyan (9-8) at home, face Allegheny (10-6) home and away, and must travel to Kenyon (9-8), a team they beat at home by just 3, among their final eight games, all very winnable.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared--Midweek Report

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	623	Hope	15-1	LOST at #34 Calvin, 55-56; 01/20 at Albion; 01/22 vs. Alma
#2	574	Thomas More	16-0	def. #23 St. Vincent, 68-66; 01/22 at Grove City
#3	557	Amherst	15-1	01/20 at Farmingdale State; 01/22 vs. Trinity (Conn.)
#4	545	Kean	15-2	def. Rutgers-Camden, 85-46; 01/22 vs. Ramapo
#5	505	Christopher Newport	14-1	def. Averett, 78-36; 01/21 at Methodist; 01/23 at #25 Greensboro
#6	502	Babson	15-0	def. Clark, 85-54; 01/22 at Springfield
#7	457	Illinois Wesleyan	13-3	def. T#41 Wheaton (Ill.), 85-69; 01/22 at North Park
#8	452	UW-Stevens Point	15-2	def. UW-Eau Claire, 61-46; 01/22 at UW-Oshkosh
#9	417	Washington U.	11-3	01/21 at New York University; 01/23 at Brandeis
#10	402	DePauw	14-2	01/21 at Trinity (Texas); 01/22 at Southwestern
#11	391	UW-Whitewater	15-2	def. UW-Platteville, 69-54
#12	353	Williams	15-1	01/21 vs. Connecticut College; 01/22 vs. Wesleyan
#13	288	Bowdoin	14-1	01/21 vs. #32 Tufts; 01/22 vs. Bates
#14	263	Rochester	11-3	01/21 vs. Carnegie Mellon; 01/23 vs. Case Western Reserve
#15	237	Medaille	14-2	def. D'Youville, 63-48; LOST at Penn State-Behrend, 61-75; 01/22 vs. Pitt-Greensburg
#16	191	Chicago	11-3	01/21 at Brandeis; 01/23 at New York University
#17	177	Lebanon Valley	16-1	def. Messiah, 46-32; 01/22 vs. Albright
#18	153	Denison	17-0	def. Wittenberg, 60-49; 01/22 vs. Allegheny
#19	151	Mount Union	13-2	def. Grove City, 65-43; 01/22 vs. Otterbein
#20	130	Louisiana College	12-1	01/20 vs. University of the Ozarks; 01/22 vs. Texas-Dallas
#21	105	St. Benedict	13-1	def. St. Mary's (Minn.), 73-61; 01/22 vs. St. Thomas
#22	104	William Paterson	15-2	def. St. Elizabeth, 88-54; 01/22 at Rutgers-Camden
#23	93	St. Vincent	14-2	LOST to #2 Thomas More, 66-68; 01/22 vs. Thiel
#24	75	St. Norbert	12-2	01/21 vs. Lake Forest; 01/22 vs. Illinois College
#25	58	Greensboro	15-0	def. Bennett, 82-31; def. Peace, 77-58; 01/23 vs. #5 Christopher Newport

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	47	Gallaudet	14-0	01/22 vs. SUNY-Cobleskill; 01/23 vs. SUNYIT
#27	27	Western Connecticut	14-2	def. Rhode Island College, 82-67; 01/22 at Southern Maine
#28	23	Coe	14-2	def. Cornell, 63-46; def. Loras, 71-49; 01/22 at #38 Wartburg
T#29	17	Mount St. Mary	13-2	01/18 at Mount St. Vincent POSTPONED; 01/22 at St. Joseph's (L.I.)
T#29	17	Puget Sound	12-3	01/21 vs. #35 George Fox; 01/22 vs. Lewis and Clark
#31	14	Mississippi College	12-2	01/20 vs. Texas-Dallas; 01/22 vs. University of the Ozarks
#32	12	Tufts	11-2	def. Wheaton (Mass.), 64-34; 01/21 at #13 Bowdoin; 01/22 at Colby
#33	9	Millikin	12-4	def. Augustana, 67-54; 01/22 vs. T#41 Carthage
#34	8	Calvin	13-3	def. #1 Hope, 56-55; 01/20 vs. Trine; 01/22 vs. St. Mary's (Ind.)
#35	6	George Fox	11-4	01/21 at T#29 Puget Sound; 01/22 vs. Linfield
T#36	5	Johns Hopkins	13-3	def. T#36 Muhlenberg, 86-75; def. Bryn Mawr, 86-51; 01/22 at Dickinson
T#36	5	Muhlenberg	11-4	LOST at T#36 Johns Hopkins, 75-86; def. Ursinus, 61-59; 01/22 vs. Washington College
#38	4	Wartburg	15-2	def. Luther, 66-58; LOST at T#39 Simpson, 55-64; 01/22 vs. #28 Coe
T#39	3	Simpson	14-3	def. Buena Vista, 78-77; def. #38 Wartburg, 64-55; 01/22 vs. Luther
T#39	3	UW-La Crosse	12-4	def. UW-Oshkosh, 73-68 (OT); 01/22 vs. UW-Eau Claire
T#41	2	Carthage	12-4	def. North Central (Ill.), 73-59; 01/22 at #33 Millikin
T#41	2	Hanover	14-1	def. Rose-Hulman, 59-30; 01/22 at Manchester
T#41	2	Wheaton (Ill.)	10-5	LOST at #7 Illinois Wesleyan, 69-85; 01/22 at Elmhurst

Other teams to watch (as suggested by posters on this board)

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
---	---	Lagrange	12-1	def. Berry, 88-68; 01/22 vs. Huntingdon

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Interesting point about this CNU-Greensboro match-up in year's past CNU would play @ Methodist and then follow it up with Greensboro the following day.  (or vice versa)  There must be a rationale behind this because CNU men are not getting that extra day of rest.  Don't know if this was done on purpose or not.  I would expect CNU to get a shoot around in the gym in between games, or maybe they want to use that as a day of rest.

[PrideFan1986]

Interesting point about this CNU-Greensboro match-up in year's past CNU would play @ Methodist and then follow it up with Greensboro the following day.  (or vice versa)  There must be a rationale behind this because CNU men are not getting that extra day of rest.  Don't know if this was done on purpose or not.  I would expect CNU to get a shoot around in the gym in between games, or maybe they want to use that as a day of rest.

Coach Hunter is the one that made the change, I guess she has to get all the rest that she can get. When I left the gym tonight after the mens game they were in our gym doing a full on workout.

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

65-61 Pride pull off the upset!!!  # 25 GC over #5 CNU.  Despite shooting 30% below their season FT% average they pull it out @ home.  Bench scoring was huge for GC and great play from the PG Terrell 14 pts 11 assists.  GC kept All-American G Schweers in check for most of the game.  She still got her 20, but only made 2 3's. Pride held the top shooting offense in the conference to under 40%.  Good job.  As a fan I expect a huge jump in the polls   A modest increase will suffice.  Top 15?

[BH2OFan]

Good luck with that, I predict the CNU fall will be greater than the GC jump... but congrats nonetheless

[sumfun]

Another example of how hard it is to rank teams around the country when they don't play eachother very often, particularly if they play in a league that sends only one team to NCAA.  Ill/Wisc, UAA, NESCAC and a few other leagues usually send multiple teams so have a better chance to gauge against tougher competition.  Certainly that's what makes watching the results so entertaining each day.

[Ralph Turner]

65-61 Pride pull off the upset!!!  # 25 GC over #5 CNU.  Despite shooting 30% below their season FT% average they pull it out @ home.  Bench scoring was huge for GC and great play from the PG Terrell 14 pts 11 assists.  GC kept All-American G Schweers in check for most of the game.  She still got her 20, but only made 2 3's. Pride held the top shooting offense in the conference to under 40%.  Good job.  As a fan I expect a huge jump in the polls  A modest increase will suffice.  Top 15?

Here is my assessment of CNU after they played McMurry, which is currently in 5th place in the tough ASC-West, the day after the loss to Thomas More.  Post #1129 on this board earlier in the season.

Here are 2 posts that I made on the USA South board earlier in the week concerning the CNU-McMurry game.

I cut-and-paste them for the readers of this board.

CNU 67, McMurry 59.

The game was tied at 59 with 1:59 left in the game.  CNU pulled ahead 60-59 with 1:18 left.  McMurry committed 3 turnovers the rest of the game and committed three fouls.

The McMurry women look like a solid 3rd place team in the ASC-West. They need to gain confidence, and the younger players need to develop for me to rank them higher in the ASC-West.  Besides, the ASC-East [e.g., Louisiana College and Mississippi College] may be stronger than the ASC-West this year.

Respectfully, CNU may not be even a Top 20 team.

After closer review of the boxscore, I see that CNU only went 7 deep.  CNU only got 36 minutes off the bench, including a 21 and an 11 minute performance from the bench.

The strong teams that made runs from the ASC (the early decade HSU teams, the 2006 Hardin Simmons Final Four, 2008 Howard Payne Championship team, and the Tarra Richardson years at McMurry 2004-08) could go double digit minutes for 8-10 performers regularly.

As a critical opinion from tonight's game, I wonder if CNU has the depth to make a deep run in the NCAA's.  Those legs start to get tired by the 29th and 30th games of the year.

Another question is whether the USA South will provide enough in-season competition to toughen the team.  Tough divisional and conference races were key to the strong teams in the ASC.  In fact, the 2006 HSU team was a Pool C bid and was eliminated in the Conference Tourney Quarterfinals.

I hope to see CNU in the tourney.

Thanks to all.

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

It is very hard to rank the south as it is, because the teams are so spread out.  I think the south is under appreciated for the success they have had over the last few years.  Look at how many teams the south gets in and the success they have had with numerous final four teams.  (I think the men's side especially with the ODAC the success of the conference is finally paying dividends.)

The one thing that really disappointed me about this GC-CNU game, was the fans.  They showed up, but they weren't really in the game.  I didn't hear one "Defense, Defense" cheer or much cheering, just excitement after big plays.  I may not be in college any more, but I surely would have tried to be more involved.  It was a big game!!

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

I would like to get credit for giving Greensboro giving CNU its first loss, but Thomas More was the one to give them their first loss.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	623	Hope	17-1	LOST at #34 Calvin, 55-56; def. Albion, 69-46; def. Alma, 48-39
#2	574	Thomas More	17-0	def. #23 St. Vincent, 68-66; def. Grove City, 51-31
#3	557	Amherst	17-1	def. Farmingdale State, 84-51; def. Trinity (Conn.), 81-45
#4	545	Kean	16-2	def. Rutgers-Camden, 85-46; def. Ramapo, 87-55
#5	505	Christopher Newport	15-2	def. Averett, 78-36; def. Methodist, 69-61; LOST at #25 Greensboro, 61-65
#6	502	Babson	16-0	def. Clark, 85-54; def. Springfield, 66-45
#7	457	Illinois Wesleyan	14-3	def. T#41 Wheaton (Ill.), 85-69; def. North Park, 74-54
#8	452	UW-Stevens Point	16-2	def. UW-Eau Claire, 61-46; def. UW-Oshkosh, 62-54
#9	417	Washington U.	13-3	def. New York University, 80-54; def. Brandeis, 66-36
#10	402	DePauw	15-3	LOST at Trinity (Texas), 59-68; def. Southwestern, 77-47
#11	391	UW-Whitewater	15-2	def. UW-Platteville, 69-54
#12	353	Williams	17-1	def. Connecticut College, 72-47; def. Wesleyan, 82-48
#13	288	Bowdoin	14-3	LOST to #32 Tufts, 49-62; LOST to Bates, 56-77
#14	263	Rochester	13-3	def. Carnegie Mellon, 66-38; def. Case Western Reserve, 82-73
#15	237	Medaille	15-2	def. D'Youville, 63-48; LOST at Penn State-Behrend, 61-75; def. Pitt-Greensburg, 73-47
#16	191	Chicago	13-3	def. Brandeis, 71-38; def. New York University, 87-81
#17	177	Lebanon Valley	17-1	def. Messiah, 46-32; def. Albright, 79-46
#18	153	Denison	18-0	def. Wittenberg, 60-49; def. Allegheny, 79-59
#19	151	Mount Union	14-2	def. Grove City, 65-43; def. Otterbein, 67-53
#20	130	Louisiana College	14-1	def. University of the Ozarks, 69-57; def. Texas-Dallas, 79-59
#21	105	St. Benedict	14-1	def. St. Mary's (Minn.), 73-61; def. St. Thomas, 62-58
#22	104	William Paterson	16-2	def. St. Elizabeth, 88-54; def. Rutgers-Camden, 74-62
#23	93	St. Vincent	15-2	LOST to #2 Thomas More, 66-68; def. Thiel, 88-74
#24	75	St. Norbert	14-2	def. Lake Forest, 66-59; def. Illinois College, 65-52
#25	58	Greensboro	16-0	def. Bennett, 82-31; def. Peace, 77-58; def. #5 Christopher Newport, 65-61

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	47	Gallaudet	16-0	def. SUNY-Cobleskill, 55-44; def. SUNYIT, 51-48
#27	27	Western Connecticut	14-3	def. Rhode Island College, 82-67; LOST at Southern Maine, 53-74
#28	23	Coe	15-2	def. Cornell, 63-46; def. Loras, 71-49; def. #38 Wartburg, 74-69
T#29	17	Mount St. Mary	15-2	def. Mount St. Vincent, 73-46; def. St. Joseph's (L.I.), 73-54
T#29	17	Puget Sound	13-4	def. #35 George Fox, 56-40; LOST to Lewis and Clark, 63-72
#31	14	Mississippi College	12-4	LOST to Texas-Dallas, 59-70; LOST to University of the Ozarks, 62-67
#32	12	Tufts	12-3	def. Wheaton (Mass.), 64-34; def. #13 Bowdoin, 62-49; LOST at Colby, 54-67
#33	9	Millikin	13-4	def. Augustana, 67-54; def. T#41 Carthage, 46-44
#34	8	Calvin	15-3	def. #1 Hope, 56-55; def. Trine, 81-37; def. St. Mary's (Ind.), 74-60
#35	6	George Fox	12-5	LOST at T#29 Puget Sound, 40-56; def. Linfield, 64-49
T#36	5	Johns Hopkins	14-3	def. T#36 Muhlenberg, 86-75; def. Bryn Mawr, 86-51; def. Dickinson, 67-65
T#36	5	Muhlenberg	12-4	LOST at T#36 Johns Hopkins, 75-86; def. Ursinus, 61-59; def. Washington College, 87-55
#38	4	Wartburg	15-3	def. Luther, 66-58; LOST at T#39 Simpson, 55-64; LOST to #28 Coe, 69-74
T#39	3	Simpson	15-3	def. Buena Vista, 78-77; def. #38 Wartburg, 64-55; def. Luther, 118-58
T#39	3	UW-La Crosse	13-5	def. UW-Oshkosh, 73-68; LOST to UW-Eau Claire, 43-61
T#41	2	Carthage	12-5	def. North Central (Ill.), 73-59; LOST at #33 Millikin, 44-46
T#41	2	Hanover	15-1	def. Rose-Hulman, 59-30; def. Manchester, 70-68
T#41	2	Wheaton (Ill.)	11-5	LOST at #7 Illinois Wesleyan, 69-85; LOST at Elmhurst, 60-74

Other teams to watch (as suggested by posters on this board)

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
---	---	Lagrange	13-1	def. Berry, 88-68; def. Huntingdon, 109-57