Top 25 discussion

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Without seeing the OPW% and the OOPW% personally I think Greensboro should be ahead of Denison in the polls. 

This week alone Greensboro played teams with records of 13-7, 15-5, 5-14, 11-10.   Denison on the other hand played teams 10-11 and 2-18. 

Greensboro has beaten a ranked team and Denison has not (plus Greensboro has another game against a ranked team scheduled for the end of the year.  This is how I think the Polls should be in the range of 10-16 start of next week. (Teams above them moving up)

#10 Chicago
#11 LVC
#12 DePauw
#13 Greensboro
#14 Denison
#15 Louisiana College
#16 Rochester

As always I like to throw my 2 cents out in the poll.  I didn't too bad of a job placing teams in the middle of poll. These weren't guesses by any means.  I managed to watch a few of these teams play and gauging this also based on what I know.

Admittedly, I relied more on the pedigree of DePauw to keep them up there with the 3 losses.

Babson as I said before still seems high, but I do see the reasoning behind it.

It is still sad to see Gallaudet not in the poll, but they did have a pretty quiet week.

All looks good otherwise.


My argument for Greensboro-Denison paid off it seems .  Hey, I might be a Greensboro fan, but I am opposed of them dropping down next week if the schedule warrants it.


Ok time for House!

[bearsfan]

#11   333   UW-Whitewater   16-5   LOST to UW-La Crosse, 66-73; LOST at UW-River Falls, 69-73

can whitewater stay in the top 25? no other team in the top 25 has 5 losses.

It's hard to know...If it was Ill Wesleyan or Wash U, they'd still be in the Top 10. Yes, they've both lost to ranked teams, but the voters seem to have a pretty unconditional love for those two squads.

Wash U has losses to Hope and IWU on neutral courts (both ranked in the top 5 at the time they played them) and Chicago on the road which is a tough environment to play in. If Wash U or IWU lost 3 games in their last 4, they would probably fall equally far. A couple years back when Wash U opened the season with losses in 3 of their first 4 games, they dropped out of the polls completely. Not really a fair statement to say they are getting favorable treatment without anything to really back that statement up.

[jumphigh]

will SOS numbers be available? or where can I find them







o

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared--Midweek Report

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	608	Thomas More	22-0	def. Waynesburg, 93-65; 02/12 at Bethany
#2	600	Amherst	21-1	02/11 at Middlebury; 02/12 at #19 Williams
#3	559	Hope	21-1	def. Adrian, 74-45; 02/12 vs. Trine
#4	521	UW-Stevens Point	20-2	def. UW-Eau Claire, 67-59; 02/12 vs. UW-River Falls
#5	512	Babson	22-0	def. Wellesley, 75-49; 02/12 vs. Coast Guard
#6	496	Washington U.	17-3	02/11 at Emory; 02/13 at #16 Rochester
#7	477	Kean	20-3	def. Richard Stockton, 77-56; def. Gwynedd-Mercy, 87-63; 02/12 at Rutgers-Camden
#8	431	Christopher Newport	19-2	02/12 at Averett; 02/13 at Ferrum
#9	376	Illinois Wesleyan	17-4	def. T#34 Millikin, 71-58; 02/12 at T#32 Wheaton (Ill.)
#10	373	Chicago	17-3	02/11 at #16 Rochester; 02/13 at Emory
#11	370	Lebanon Valley	20-2	LOST to Messiah, 55-59; 02/12 at Albright
#12	342	Greensboro	22-0	def. North Carolina Wesleyan, 75-47; 02/12 vs. Peace
#13	338	Denison	22-0	def. Kenyon, 74-67; 02/12 at Allegheny
#14	312	DePauw	18-3	02/11 vs. Oglethorpe; 02/13 vs. Sewanee
#15	235	Louisiana College	19-1	def. Texas-Tyler, 101-75; 02/10 at University of the Ozarks; 02/12 at Texas-Dallas
#16	196	Rochester	16-4	02/11 vs. #10 Chicago; 02/13 vs. #6 Washington U.
#17	175	St. Vincent	20-2	def. Bethany, 85-48; 02/12 at Waynesburg
#18	170	St. Norbert	19-2	def. Beloit, 65-52; 02/12 at Carroll
#19	154	Williams	19-3	02/11 vs. Trinity (Conn.); 02/12 vs. #2 Amherst
#20	130	Mount Union	19-3	def. Marietta, 70-47; 02/12 at Ohio Northern
#21	109	Medaille	19-2	02/12 vs. Penn State-Altoona
#22	106	Coe	19-3	LOST at Loras, 55-56; 02/12 vs. Buena Vista
#23	99	UW-Whitewater	17-5	def. UW-Platteville, 72-47; 02/12 vs. UW-Eau Claire
#24	94	William Paterson	20-3	def. New Jersey City, 80-41
#25	75	Calvin	19-4	def. Olivet, 67-40

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	71	Gallaudet	20-0	def. Penn State-Berks, 70-57; 02/12 vs. Penn State-Harrisburg
#27	48	Mount St. Mary	19-2	def. Polytechnic, 64-43; 02/10 vs. Yeshiva; 02/13 vs. Lehman
#28	27	Bowdoin	18-4	02/11 at Connecticut College; 02/12 at Wesleyan
#29	21	St. Benedict	17-4	LOST to Macalester, 58-72; 02/12 at Concordia-Moorhead
#30	13	Simpson	18-4	def. Central, 106-55; 02/12 at Wartburg
#31	12	Western Connecticut	18-3	def. Rhode Island College, 74-53; 02/12 at Keene State
T#32	8	George Fox	16-5	02/11 at Whitman; 02/12 at Whitworth
T#32	8	Wheaton (Ill.)	16-5	def. Augustana, 91-58; 02/12 vs. #9 Illinois Wesleyan
T#34	7	Lewis and Clark	16-5	02/11 vs. Pacific; 02/12 vs. Pacific Lutheran
T#34	7	Millikin	15-6	LOST at #9 Illinois Wesleyan, 58-71; 02/12 vs. Augustana
#36	6	Johns Hopkins	18-4	def. McDaniel, 66-44; 02/12 at Ursinus
T#37	5	Hanover	20-1	def. Franklin, 83-70; 02/12 vs. Earlham
T#37	5	Puget Sound	18-4	def. Pacific Lutheran, 81-68; 02/11 vs. Linfield
#39	4	Baldwin-Wallace	16-6	LOST to John Carroll, 73-75; 02/12 at Capital
#40	2	UW-La Crosse	18-5	def. UW-Oshkosh, 56-44
#41	1	Mississippi College	16-5	02/10 at Texas-Dallas; 02/12 at University of the Ozarks

[gadk]

Top 25
SOS   Rank      Pts      Team   W-L      Result
0.506  #1   608   Thomas More   22-0   def. Waynesburg, 93-65; 02/12 at Bethany
0.610  #2   600   Amherst   21-1   02/11 at Middlebury; 02/12 at #19 Williams
0.510  #3   559   Hope   21-1   def. Adrian, 74-45; 02/12 vs. Trine
0.579  #4   521   UW-Stevens Point   20-2   def. UW-Eau Claire, 67-59; 02/12 vs. UW-River Falls
0.506  #5   512   Babson   22-0   def. Wellesley, 75-49; 02/12 vs. Coast Guard
0.523  #6   496   Washington U.   17-3   02/11 at Emory; 02/13 at #16 Rochester
0.605  #7   477   Kean   20-3   def. Richard Stockton, 77-56; def. Gwynedd-Mercy, 87-63; 02/12 at Rutgers-Camden
0.515  #8   431   Christopher Newport   19-2   02/12 at Averett; 02/13 at Ferrum
0.615  #9   376   Illinois Wesleyan   17-4   def. T#34 Millikin, 71-58; 02/12 at T#32 Wheaton (Ill.)
0.529  #10   373   Chicago   17-3   02/11 at #16 Rochester; 02/13 at Emory
0.542  #11   370   Lebanon Valley   20-2   LOST to Messiah, 55-59; 02/12 at Albright
0.523  #12   342   Greensboro   22-0   def. North Carolina Wesleyan, 75-47; 02/12 vs. Peace
0.459  #13   338   Denison   22-0   def. Kenyon, 74-67; 02/12 at Allegheny
0.517  #14   312   DePauw   18-3   02/11 vs. Oglethorpe; 02/13 vs. Sewanee
0.478 #15   235   Louisiana College   19-1   def. Texas-Tyler, 101-75; 02/10 at University of the Ozarks; 02/12 at Texas-Dallas
0.555  #16   196   Rochester   16-4   02/11 vs. #10 Chicago; 02/13 vs. #6 Washington U.
0.502  #17   175   St. Vincent   20-2   def. Bethany, 85-48; 02/12 at Waynesburg
0.492  #18   170   St. Norbert   19-2   def. Beloit, 65-52; 02/12 at Carroll
0.599  #19   154   Williams   19-3   02/11 vs. Trinity (Conn.); 02/12 vs. #2 Amherst
0.516  #20   130   Mount Union   19-3   def. Marietta, 70-47; 02/12 at Ohio Northern
0.472  #21   109   Medaille   19-2   02/12 vs. Penn State-Altoona
0.533  #22   106   Coe   19-3   LOST at Loras, 55-56; 02/12 vs. Buena Vista
0.605  #23   99   UW-Whitewater   17-5   def. UW-Platteville, 72-47; 02/12 vs. UW-Eau Claire
0.587  #24   94   William Paterson   20-3   def. New Jersey City, 80-41
0.506  #25   75   Calvin   19-4   def. Olivet, 67-40
Others receiving votes
Rank      Pts      Team   W-L      Results
0.471  #26   71   Gallaudet   20-0   def. Penn State-Berks, 70-57; 02/12 vs. Penn State-Harrisburg
0.558  #27   48   Mount St. Mary   19-2   def. Polytechnic, 64-43; 02/10 vs. Yeshiva; 02/13 vs. Lehman
0.618  #28   27   Bowdoin   18-4   02/11 at Connecticut College; 02/12 at Wesleyan
0.485  #29   21   St. Benedict   17-4   LOST to Macalester, 58-72; 02/12 at Concordia-Moorhead
0.521  #30   13   Simpson   18-4   def. Central, 106-55; 02/12 at Wartburg
0.558  #31   12   Western Connecticut   18-3   def. Rhode Island College, 74-53; 02/12 at Keene State
0.521  T#32   8   George Fox   16-5   02/11 at Whitman; 02/12 at Whitworth

[Hoosier Titan]

Thanks for adding the SOS, Darryl!  Great addition!

[sunny]

Looking at the SOS numbers, a couple of things:

1) IWU has the highest SOS of these teams. Not surprised by that. I am surprised that they don't have a wider lead in that category.
2) Compare the SOS for Denison and Louisiana College and their respective rankings with Gallaudet. Think Gallaudet backers have a pretty strong case - but I've been in that camp for a while.
3) UW-Whitewater and Bowdoin are the only teams receiving votes ranked lower than ninth with an SOS above .600.
4) Greensboro is undefeated and has a better SOS than #1 Thomas More, #3 Hope, and #8 Christopher Newport. Underrated at #12?

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Looking at the SOS numbers, a couple of things:

1) IWU has the highest SOS of these teams. Not surprised by that. I am surprised that they don't have a wider lead in that category.
2) Compare the SOS for Denison and Louisiana College and their respective rankings with Gallaudet. Think Gallaudet backers have a pretty strong case - but I've been in that camp for a while.
3) UW-Whitewater and Bowdoin are the only teams receiving votes ranked lower than ninth with an SOS above .600.
4) Greensboro is undefeated and has a better SOS than #1 Thomas More, #3 Hope, and #8 Christopher Newport. Underrated at #12?

Are these numbers looking at the full schedule? or the Schedule to date?

I think Greensboro is benefiting mostly from how more competitive GSAC is this year.  The top 3 teams in that conference records are. 17-4, 18-3, 15-7.

Greensboro beat Maryville (17-4) and Piedmont twice (15-7) to a combined score of 219-172.  (I know GSAC isn't strong, but Greensboro still beat them.)

Do I think Greensboro is underrated, probably. Babson, Thomas More, and CNU might be overrated.  Thomas More I personally think they are pretty weak #1 team.  I've already said Babson was overrated.  CNU lost to both Thomas More and Greensboro.  (I've mentioned a few times of how I felt about CNU's status.) And neither one of their SOS are very strong.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Looking at the SOS numbers, a couple of things:

1) IWU has the highest SOS of these teams. Not surprised by that. I am surprised that they don't have a wider lead in that category.
2) Compare the SOS for Denison and Louisiana College and their respective rankings with Gallaudet. Think Gallaudet backers have a pretty strong case - but I've been in that camp for a while.
3) UW-Whitewater and Bowdoin are the only teams receiving votes ranked lower than ninth with an SOS above .600.
4) Greensboro is undefeated and has a better SOS than #1 Thomas More, #3 Hope, and #8 Christopher Newport. Underrated at #12?

I just made a post on the pool C thread addressing this very point!  It is not higher than it is because the bottom half of the CCIW is mediocre-at-best.  Since a coach cannot control the strength of their conference, I would love to see a way to more heavily emphasize non-conference SoS - what the coach CAN control.  A gutsy coach like Mia Smith (arguably the toughest non-con schedule in the country year after year) should be rewarded (as long as she can weather the schedule, of course!).

[Pat Coleman]

Are these numbers looking at the full schedule? or the Schedule to date?

It only takes into account games that have been played.

[Darryl Nester]

Thanks for adding the SOS, Darryl!  Great addition!

Credit where credit is due ... that was gadk, not me.  I'll look into adding that to my program.

[Hoosier Titan]

Thanks for adding the SOS, Darryl!  Great addition!

Credit where credit is due ... that was gadk, not me.  I'll look into adding that to my program.

Duh...you can see what I looked closely at!  Nice work, gadk!

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Greensboro wins again 23-0

Averett pulls off the upset over #8 CNU 58-50.  This really is the toughest stretch of the season for CNU playing the 5th (L), 3rd, 4th, and 1st place teams to end the season.

[gadk]

Top 25
SOS   Rank      Pts      Team   W-L      Result
1 0.618  #28   27   Bowdoin   18-4   
2 0.615  #9   376   Illinois Wesleyan   17-4   
3 0.610  #2   600   Amherst   21-1   
4 0.605  #7   477   Kean   20-3   
4 0.605  #23   99   UW-Whitewater   17-5   
6 0.599  #19   154   Williams   19-3   
7 0.587  #24   94   William Paterson   20-3   
8 0.579  #4   521   UW-Stevens Point   20-2   
9 0.558  #27   48   Mount St. Mary   19-2   
9 0.558  #31   12   Western Connecticut   18-3   
11 0.557  T#34   7   Millikin   15-6   
12 0.555  #16   196   Rochester   16-4   
13 0.542  #11   370   Lebanon Valley   20-2   
14 0.533  #22   106   Coe   19-3   LOST at Loras, 55-56; 02/12 vs. Buena Vista
15 0.529  #10   373   Chicago   17-3   02/11 at #16 Rochester; 02/13 at Emory
15 0.529  #36   6   Johns Hopkins   18-4   def. McDaniel, 66-44; 02/12 at Ursinus
17 0.523  #6   496   Washington U.   17-3   02/11 at Emory; 02/13 at #16 Rochester
17 0.523  #12   342   Greensboro   22-0   def. North Carolina Wesleyan, 75-47; 02/12 vs. Peace
19 0.521  #30   13   Simpson   18-4   def. Central, 106-55; 02/12 at Wartburg
19 0.521  T#32   8   George Fox   16-5   02/11 at Whitman; 02/12 at Whitworth
21 0.517  #14   312   DePauw   18-3   02/11 vs. Oglethorpe; 02/13 vs. Sewanee
22 0.516  #20   130   Mount Union   19-3   def. Marietta, 70-47; 02/12 at Ohio Northern
23 0.515  #8   431   Christopher Newport   19-2   02/12 at Averett; 02/13 at Ferrum
24 0.510  #3   559   Hope   21-1   def. Adrian, 74-45; 02/12 vs. Trine
25 0.506  #25   75   Calvin   19-4   def. Olivet, 67-40
25 0.506  #1   608   Thomas More   22-0   def. Waynesburg, 93-65; 02/12 at Bethany
25 0.506  #5   512   Babson   22-0   def. Wellesley, 75-49; 02/12 vs. Coast Guard
28 0.502  #17   175   St. Vincent   20-2   def. Bethany, 85-48; 02/12 at Waynesburg
29 0.492  #18   170   St. Norbert   19-2   def. Beloit, 65-52; 02/12 at Carroll
30 0.485  #29   21   St. Benedict   17-4   LOST to Macalester, 58-72; 02/12 at Concordia-Moorhead
31 0.478  #15   235   Louisiana College   19-1   def. Texas-Tyler, 101-75; 02/10 at University of the Ozarks; 02/12 at Texas-Dallas
32 0.472  #21   109   Medaille   19-2   02/12 vs. Penn State-Altoona
33 0.471  #26   71   Gallaudet   20-0   def. Penn State-Berks, 70-57; 02/12 vs. Penn State-Harrisburg
34 0.459  #13   338   Denison   22-0   def. Kenyon, 74-67; 02/12 at Allegheny

Mt.St.Mary and Western Connecticut have the best win/loss record and sos combination not in the top 25

[sumfun]

GADK, thanks for ranking by SOS.  Looks like Denison, Thomas More, and Babson should be a bit worried.   Reminds me of a few years ago when Thomas More went into NCAA's undefeated and lost early at home.  Playing tough teams really adds up when it comes to NCAA's.