Top 25 discussion

[Ralph Turner]

WBCA Top 25 Honors/Academic programs

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

Congratualtions to those school.  A special congratulations goes two Simpson and Muhlenberg for excelling in the classroom as well on the court.  I think it is sad though that only two teams in the top 25 made the academic top 25.  I thought doing well in the classroom helped on the court.  Whats worse though that not even MIT or Johns Hopkins made the list, where emphasis on education is stressed.

I am surprised on the D-I side that no Ivy league school made the list.  Correct me If I am wrong on the list.

It makes me wonder what the GPA's of all the top basketball schools in every division are.

[Wydown Blvd.]

If the Ivy league teams made the list I would actually be worried.

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

Preseason top 10. This is based mostly on returning players and how pollsters vote year to year.  Then my general opinion of SOS in the NCAA's.

1. Scranton
2. Hope*
3. Southern Maine
4. Washington U.
5. DePauw
6. Baldwin-Wallace
7. Mary Washington
8. Wheaton (Ill.)
9. Hardin-Simmons
10. Capitol

*(should be #1 but pollsters seem to alternate between east and ccentral area type teams, as who should be #1.  Not too many times defending champs got the #1 Spot)

Randolph-Macon out yes.  Silva is gone.  I have seen her play, and wow.  Some people in the ODAC think Bridgewater should be the favorite to win.

Pat-and I don't think Greensboro should be in the top 10 .  Top 25 yes.  They did lose to post season #8 at Randolph-Macon's Home court.  (Note even Bridgewater lost by that much to them, and they cracked the top 25.) A few votes at the begining might be in order.

[Wydown Blvd.]

Here's something to prompt some discussion -- The Women's DIII News pre-season Top-25 poll:

1.                    The University of Scranton

2.                    Southern Maine

3.                    Baldwin-Wallace

4.                    Hope

5.                    New York University

6.                    DePauw

7.                    Bowdoin

8.                    Messiah

9.                    Wisconsin-Stout

10.                 Carroll

11.                 Bates

12.                 Bridgewater (Va.)

13.                 Mary Washington

14.                 Hardin-Simmons

15.                 Calvin

16.                 Wheaton (Ill.)

17.                 Wisconsin-Stevens Point

18.                 Wilmington

19.                 St. Benedict

20.                 Washington (Mo.)

21.                 McMurray

22.                 Williams

23.                 Maryville (Tenn.)

24.                 Simpson

25.                 Salem State

[WWWRHH]

Hope could have an interesting first weekend.  The Tip-Off Tourney participants are not listed on Hope's posted schedule. However, according to the University of Eau Claire - Wisconsin's site Baldwin-Wallace & EC-W meet in the first game and Hope will open against Davenport.  Hope will likely square off against Baldwin-Wallace on Saturday Nov. 18 giving both teams an indication of where they stand with their new lineups.

[GottaHaveHeart]

Wydown Blvd,

Where did you get this pre-season poll, what link?

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

I have tried typing in preseason polls on google no luck.  Where is this Poll?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Wow, only ONE Maine team in the top six - is that legal?!

[Though they do have 3 in the top 11.]

[Wydown Blvd.]

Got it from the MAC board...

[David Collinge]

Those of you who frequent the men's Top 25 discussion board probably know that I keep a running tab of the stats, streaks, and trivia in the men's poll.  During this offseason, I recorded all of the data from the seven complete seasons of the D3hoops.com women's top 25 poll into my datasheet, and plan to add the women's poll to my weekly update.  There was a tremendous amount of manual data entry involved, so I've doubtless made some mistakes; if you spot any, please let me know.  Both as a way to add to the excitement of the upcoming preseason poll and to give you a chance to check my work, I thought I'd make note of some of the more interesting records, streaks, and milestones as we enter the 8th season of the poll.

To nobody's surprise, Washington U. owns many of the all-time poll records.  The Bears have never failed to be included in the top 25, recording 109 consecutive weeks without being ranked lower than #14.  In fact, the Bears have only been out of the top 10 eight times in those 109 polls.  Wash U. has been ranked #1 53 times (just shy of half of the all-time polls), and have been the unanimous choice 19 times.  They were ranked #1 from the inception of the poll in 1999 through week 10 in 2001, a run of 26 straight polling periods.  In fact, in the initial year of the poll, WUSTL received an incredible 373 of the 375 #1 votes cast over the course of the season.  Needless to say, all of the above are poll records.

However, after being ranked #1 in 53 of the first 58 polls (interrupted only by George Fox, Messiah, and UW-Stevens Point), the Bears have failed to reach the pinnacle of the poll since Week 11, 2003.  Since that time, 14 schools have reached the #1 spot, led by Bowdoin (16 polls) and Southern Maine (11 polls).  Bowdoin was the unanimous choice five times, the only team besides Wash U. to achieve this distinction in a non-final poll (the national champion has always been the unanimous #1 in the final poll.)  Bowdoin holds a significant poll record of their own, having been in the top 10 for 74 consecutive weeks, a streak that is current through the end of last season.

Since Wash U. has never been ranked lower than #14, it goes without saying that the Bears have received votes in each of the 109 women's polls.  They are not alone in this distinction, however; the same is true of Scranton (ranked in the top 25 106 of those 109 weeks) and of Hardin-Simmons (in the top 25 100 times).  DePauw falls just one week short of this ongoing record, having received votes in every poll except in week 10 of the 99-00 season.   The Tigers have received votes in 98 consecutive polls since that single absence.  Other schools who rarely fail to draw attention from the voters include St. Benedict (106 weeks with at least one vote, including a streak of 102 straight weeks from the inception of the poll through week 7 of last season), UW-Oshkosh (103 weeks, missing the last 5 polls last season and one poll in 2001), and defending national titlist Hope (101 weeks, including 98 of the last 99 polls).  The next time that NYU or Southern Maine receive a vote, it will be the 100th poll appearance for that school.  I suspect that neither will have long to wait.

Other significant milestones include:

• Hardin-Simmons, in addition to being in the top 25 100 times, has been a member of the top 10 an even 50 times.  Baldwin-Wallace has also been a top 10 team in 50 separate polls.
• Prior to week 4 of the 2001-02 season, the Bowdoin Polar Bears had never been ranked higher than #12.  They entered the top 10 that week (at #10) and have not been dislodged since.  The next time that Bowdoin is a top 10 team, it will be their 75th time.  The same can be said of the Scranton Lady Royals.
• The next time the 2004 national champion Wilmington Lady Quakers are ranked in the top 25, it will be their 50th time as a member of that august group.

I am by no means an expert in D3 women's hoops, but my interest level has increased as I worked through this project.  I hope to be able to contribute some little tidbits of interest this season, even if I won't be posting any great insights or profundities.  Here's hoping your team has success this season.

[Pat Coleman]

Man, David, impressive as always. As I sit here compiling the info into the format we send to our voters, good kickoff to the season.

[bbald eagle]

The pre season ESPN/USA Today Division III Top 25 is posted:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/ranking?key=WomenDIVIIIPOLL

1. University Of Scranton (Pa.)         
2. Hope College (Mich.)               
3. University Of Southern Maine       
4. Bowdoin College (Maine)                 
5. DePauw University (Ind.)             
6. Baldwin-Wallace College (Ohio)     
7. Hardin-Simmons University (Texas)       
8. Univ. of Mary Washington (Va.)         
9. University of Wisconsin, Stout         
10. Washington University (Mo.)             
11. Wheaton College (Ill.)                 
12. Pacific Lutheran University (Wash.)   
13. Messiah College (Pa.)                   
14. University of Rochester (N.Y.)         
15. Calvin College (Mich.)                 
16. Brandeis University (Mass.)         
17. McMurry University (Texas)           
18. Bridgewater College (Va.)               
19. Williams College (Mass.)               
20. New York University                     
21. Capital University (Ohio)               
22. Simpson College (Iowa)                 
23. Randolph-Macon College (Va.)         
24. Carroll College (Wis.)                 
25. Bates College (Maine) 

[bearsfan]

The first two polls of the year show what we all already know which is how inaccurate preseason polls really are.

Some statistics between the two polls. Each poll only matched 20 schools as deserving ranking for both polls. UW Stevens Point(17), Wilmington(18), St. Benedict(19), Maryville(Tenn.)(23), and Salem State(25) were not included in the ESPN poll. What is a little more suprising is the rankings in the ESPN poll of the teams not included in the DIII News Poll: Pacific Lutheran University(12th), U of Rochester(14th), and Brandeis(16th) along with Capital(21) and Randolph-Macon(23). Not too often that two teams would be in the top 15 in one poll and not get a ranking in another.

Also kind of interesting that 7 schools were different by 10 or more spots between the two polls. Wash U was 10th in ESPN but 20th in DIII News. NYU was 20th in ESPN but 5th in DIII News. Carroll was 24th in ESPN and 10th in DIII News. Bates was 25th in ESPN and 11th in DIII News. As well as Pacific Lutheran, U of Rochester, and Brandeis who were already mentioned.

The one bright spot between the two polls was that the top 10s were very close including both having Scranton as the #1 team. Maybe we should throw out the Preseason Top 25 polls and replace it with a Preseason Top 10. It's obvious that the start of the season is way to early to determine how teams will be when the season starts and provides no real gage of competition besides the guesses of the voters.

That being said though, I am anxiously awaiting the D3Hoops Preseason Poll to see their take. I bet it would be an interesting statistic to compare the preseason poll to the last regular season poll for each of the different polls over the last 10 or so years to see which is most accurate in predicting which teams will be the best for the season.

[David Collinge]

That being said though, I am anxiously awaiting the D3Hoops Preseason Poll to see their take. I bet it would be an interesting statistic to compare the preseason poll to the last regular season poll for each of the different polls over the last 10 or so years to see which is most accurate in predicting which teams will be the best for the season.

Here's how the D3hoops.com poll has performed:
2005 Preseason vs. 2006 Final Regular Season (i.e. Week 13):
*Five of the preseason top 10 were in the Week 13 top 10:
>> Randolph-Macon (#2 preseason, #7 Week 13)
>> Bowdoin (#3 to #5)
>> Southern Maine (#4 to #1)
>> Scranton (#5 to #2)
>> Capital (#7 to #10)
*The other five preseason top 10 teams finished as follows:
>> #6 UW-Stout finished #21
>> #8 Brandeis finished #13
>> #1 Milikin, #9 St. Benedict, and #10 George Fox finished unranked.
*The remainder of the Week 13 top 25 started out as follows:
>> #3 Washington U. was #14
>> #4 DePauw was #22
>> #6 Hope was #15
>> #9 Messiah was #25
>> #8 Mary Washington was unranked.

2004 Preseason vs. 2005 Final Regular Season (i.e. Week 14):
*Four of the preseason top 10 were in the Week 14 top 10:
>> Bowdoin (#1 preseason, #2 Week 14)
>> Southern Maine (#2 to #4)
>> Scranton (#7 to #1)
>> Wash. U. (#10 to #7)
*The other six preseason top 10 teams finished as follows:
>> #3 New York U.  finished #25
>> #6 Hardin-Simmons finished #23
>> #8 DePauw finished #18
>> #9 McDaniel finished #14
>> #4 UW-Stevens Point and #5 Rochester finished unranked.
*The remainder of the Week 14 top 25 started out as follows:
>> #6 Milikin was #18
>> #8 Messiah was #20
>> #9 Trinity (Tex.) was #17
>> #3 Bates, #5 Randolph-Macon, and #10 King's were unranked.