Top 25 discussion

[martin]

Messiah's only loss was to a D2 team (Mansfield).  The top ranked men's team - Wisconsin-Stevens Point also has one loss, to a D2 team.  I say Messiah should be #1. 

[atn alum]

I can't wait to see the Chicago-Howard Payne national title game

Will the fans be chanting "We're Not No. 1!"



Major tests for both those teams coming up, though, you are right about that...

[Balder Eagle]

Good to see that there's no lingering bitterness, Balder Eagle

Believe me, I am well aware of your point of view...no need to repeat it here. Please stick to the questions asked...

Thanks for your support, just what is it your talking to me about? 

IMO Maine Maritime should be in the Top 15, both Chicago and Howard Payne in the Top 5
..............then again what do I know, bieng a displaced Maine Sports Fan, I just keep losing Karma that I get 

[HPU75]

 atnwriter: WE HPU fans are just trying to be modest--a rarity I know on boards like these.  Like I said--if we win all 5 games the next two weeks (4  of which are against  2  top 15 teams) I will  be chanting that we are  a deserving #1!!

[roaring0506]

I thank you HPU75 for your modesty.  Right now, I think your a solid top 10/12 team... but if you sweep both McMurry and Hardin-Simmons in the upcoming weeks.... I place you in the top 4 easily.

[Dark Knight]

Anyone with a good argument as to why I should give Calvin a big bump up?

I'd be a little forgiving of Calvin for their early-season 3-point loss at Wheaton. They have a couple of freshmen and two transfers who are getting lots of minutes, and it takes time to fit them into the rotation and teach them their roles. 

Those new players are settling in and the team is playing stronger now. Their offense runs through a powerful front court including Harris and all-American Winkle. Last year this gave them a legitimate top-15 team, ending at #14 in the d3hoops.com poll. The big difference with this team (besides an added year of experience) is outside shooting. Last year it was pretty poor, last in the league; this year their three-point percentage is something like 6-th best in DIII, thanks to the new players and the added year of experience.

That said, I don't see much on the results sheet to separate the top few teams. Massey Ratings have Howard Payne as a strong #1, well above the rest--but they've played one of the weakest schedules of the top teams and no ranked competition (wait till next week!). The remainder of the top teams are pretty close, with Calvin at #3. However, Calvin has played the toughest schedule of the top 8, according to Massey, and as far as I can tell, Calvin is the only team of the top 8 with two wins against ranked competition.

[Dark Knight]

Messiah's only loss was to a D2 team (Mansfield).  The top ranked men's team - Wisconsin-Stevens Point also has one loss, to a D2 team.  I say Messiah should be #1. 

Unfortunately, Mansfield is weaker than 47 D-III teams, according to Massey.

[atn alum]

Whoops, my apologies balder eagle...I was referring to bbald eagle with the "lingering bitterness" ...

You folks need to get nicknames that aren't as easy to confuse 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Well atnwriter...
I'm not going to put my stake on the #1 spot in the poll... however, I am going to put my case in to get DePauw back into the top 10 (5th or 6th would be okay... shoot they at least deserve to be 7th). 

Here are my points:

-->DePauw's two losses have come at the hands of #19 Illinois Wesleyan (15-1) and RV SCAC conference foe Oglethorpe.  (Illinois Wesleyan's only loss was to Oglethorpe.)  DPU's loss to OU was on a last second shot - DePauw didn't play well for the first 30 minutes of the game.  They will get a little revenge when the Petrels come to Indiana Feb 18.

-->DePauw leads the country in 2pt FG% and are second in 3pt FG% (49.5% and 42.6%).  They are 3rd in scoring margin at 25.5... with the 34th toughest strength of schedule (Massey Rating).

-->They are an extremely deep team, who can hurt you in so many ways...

-->They have one of the finest coaches in the country in Kris Huffman.

-->They pride themselves on defense and fundamentals.

-->They have a constant rotation of 10 players, and will even go to 12 if they need to.  (Twelve players play 10 minutes or more a game) 

-->They're led by Pre-Season All-American Liz Bondi (senior), who averages 14.9 points and 5.9 rebounds in 23 minutes of play.

-->If you can stop Bondi, can you stop sophomore Cassie Pruzin (9.8 pts, 46.3% 3FG, 3.3 asst, 4.6 reb), senior Caitlin McGonigal (8.2 pts, 40.8% 3FG), 6-3 senior Bridget Bailey (7.2 pts, 4 reb, 1.3 bpg), junior Kalei Lowes (7.1 pts, 48.7% 3FG), senior Suzy Doughty (7.0 pts, 6.2 asst, 2.83 spg), or junior Gretchen Haehl (6.7 pts, 46.5% 3FG)? Not to mention the talented freshman trio of 6-1 Emily Marshall (6.5 pts, 5.4 reb), 5-11 Jenna Fernandez (6.4 pts, 2.4 reb), and 6-0 Meghan Warner (5.5 pts, 3.5 reb).


I could make several other points to get them into the top 5, 6, 7 position... but the voters are going to vote how they want to vote.  Maybe DePauw will keep winning.. and keep slipping in the poll - kinda like they did last week.  That way, once they get into the tournament... people will wonder where they came from.  Sarcasm... maybe a little bit.  This team is the real deal... and is in my opinion worthy of a top 6 position.

Sounds to me like, wherever DePauw ends up, you made a great case that IWU should be a slot or two higher!

[Pat Coleman]

Sarcasm noted but perhaps you'd be better off looking at WHY DePauw got passed last week. I think Calvin and Wilmington had pretty good weeks, don't you?

You can't just look at one team by itself and hope to understand a Top 25.

[roaring0506]

I would agree Mr. Ypsi.. Illinois Wesleyan probably does deserve to be in the Top 15.  However, the reason I didn't give them more credit to get into the Top 10 is because after there win over DePauw in the 2nd game of the year (Nov. 18), they lost one of there better post players in the next game to injury .  She had 15 points and 16 rebounds in 31 minutes vs. DePauw.  Pretty tough numbers, especially for a freshman. 

However, IWU formiable guard trio of Heydorn (14.5 ppg), Sheehan (15.3 ppg), and Bull (16.4 ppg) have led this team to the record they currently secure. And with that, you have to give them some respect.

[Hoosier Titan]

I would agree Mr. Ypsi.. Illinois Wesleyan probably does deserve to be in the Top 15.  However, the reason I didn't give them more credit to get into the Top 10 is because after there win over DePauw in the 2nd game of the year (Nov. 18), they lost one of there better post players in the next game to injury .  She had 15 points and 16 rebounds in 31 minutes vs. DePauw.  Pretty tough numbers, especially for a freshman. 

However, IWU formiable guard trio of Heydorn (14.5 ppg), Sheehan (15.3 ppg), and Bull (16.4 ppg) have led this team to the record they currently secure. And with that, you have to give them some respect.

0506,

It seems to me that the success that IWU has had following Christina Solari's injury is even more impressive, as you note.  I can see doubting them for a while, but the team has had success against the likes of Millikin (with pre-season All American Lindsay Ippel in the post) and Wheaton (with another good post player, Jill Trenz).  They still play 10-11 players, and all have contributed.

[roaring0506]

Yeah, I would agree they've had success against those teams this year, but I wouldn't say that those teams aren't as "strong" as they've been in past years.  Millikin is 13-3 on the season, but really haven't played anyone who should have given them a challenge.  They lost to IWU, which they should have because IWU is just flat out better, but I wouldn't give them the props that they are a great team (Millikin has the 115th toughest schedule.) 

Wheaton's record (8-6) probably doesn't give them enough credit to the quality of team they are (6th toughest SOS).  But again, IWU is talented enough to beat them.  I've seen them play this year, and I'm not going to argue that their not a good team.  I just think they need to play some tougher opponents to earn the right to break into the 10.

IWU has the 132nd toughest schedule this year, according to massey.

Just some thoughts.  Are they right? Maybe not. But one things for sure.  The great lakes/central regions are going to have a lot of fun once tournament time comes around.  Too many quality teams.  I think that's one thing we can all agree on.

[bbald eagle]

Should I give Bowdoin a mulligan?? ... And what to do with Maine Maritime??

Anyone out there with a thought?

The Maine referees give Bowdoin enough mulligans, there is no need or reason for you to do the same.

Maine Maritime? Give them a well-deserved congratulatory placement in the 8 - 12 range, probably right above Bowdoin, and the opportunity to move up.

Please stick to the questions asked...

atnwriter-

what am I missing here? Did I quote your questions inaccurately? You didn't seem to like my responses, but how can you say I wasn't responding to the questions you asked?

[Pat Coleman]

I think your griping wasn't adding to the conversation.