Top 25 discussion

[Hoosier Titan]

Yeah, I would agree they've had success against those teams this year, but I wouldn't say that those teams aren't as "strong" as they've been in past years.  Millikin is 13-3 on the season, but really haven't played anyone who should have given them a challenge.  They lost to IWU, which they should have because IWU is just flat out better, but I wouldn't give them the props that they are a great team (Millikin has the 115th toughest schedule.) 

..snip...

Just some thoughts.  Are they right? Maybe not. But one things for sure.  The great lakes/central regions are going to have a lot of fun once tournament time comes around.  Too many quality teams.  I think that's one thing we can all agree on.

Roaring0506--

I don't understand your first sentence, and I don't think I used the word "strong," so I don't know who you're quoting in that sentence.  

I agree with you that IWU's competition hasn't been the most challenging.  Although that win over DePauw was solid, and the post players who've taken over Solari's minutes have done admirably to contain players like Ippel and Trenz.  If the loss of Solari is the only reason DePauw remains rated so much higher than IWU, that reasoning has been shown to be false.

Personally, I don't really care about my team's ranking that much--the IWU men played much better last year once they got that #1 off their backs.  It is interesting to see how decisions about voting are made, however.  And I agree that some lower-ranked teams are going to surprise people come tournament time.  If IWU stays off the radar screen, that's fine with me.

[roaring0506]

I wasn't quoting you Hoosier Titan.  I was basing the "strong" off how those two teams this year compare to teams of the past (I could have bolded it, but when with the quotations instead).  IWU win over DPU was a good, quality win for IWU.  Shoot, I'd put them in front of DPU if it wasn't for their schedule.  I think it would be fun to see them in a rematch in March... seeing I'm sure neither team was playing at their best in the 2nd game of the year.  I, like you, really don't care about the rankings and stuff (they are fun to look at, though!)  I was just commenting on a team that I think is pretty darn good, in which the rest of the country doesn't hear a lot about.  That's all.  Go Tigers! 

[bearsfan]

New poll is out and it seems kinds interesting that Wash U didn't even get enough to end up in the top 25(22 votes out of the 25th spot). I understand the record is quite what is expected but definitely should warrant being in the Top 25. After a 1-3 start, they are now 12-4. They had a rough start but have 15 freshman and sophomores on the team with only 5 seniors (only 2 who have been there for all 4 years if I recall correctly).

They only really have 1 bad loss (to Central which can be attributed to either extreme youth or a low after the close lose to DePauw) and their other three losses are to DePauw(#3 at the time, #10 now, and 1st in the SCAC) by 7, Chicago(#16 I believe at the time, #4 now, and 1st in the UAA) by 3 at Chicago, and Lake Forest(#25 and 1st in the MWC) by 2 in OT in a game where Lake Forest (who is a very talented team from what I saw) needed a 1 handed NBA 3 with 10+ seconds left and a near 50 ft guarded heave at the buzzer to send the game to OT.

They are 9-2 in region (the Central game should not be a regional game since they are in the West Region and the Hanover should not be as they are Great Lakes) and just beat Rochester who was #2 and undefeated prior to the loss. I am not saying they are the teams they were in the championship years but if Rochester (who I think is a team that will be contending come tournament time) can lose two in a row and only fall to #8 then I think Wash U deserves to be a top 25 team after the 19 point head to head victory.

They have a very big stretch coming up with 4 straight against the other UAA powerhouses of Brandeis and NYU so hopefully if they can get a couple of wins in those 4 it will be enough to get them in the top 25. Just seems a little like they might be getting judged on comparison to Wash U teams of the past then to be unbiasly judged based on what they have done this season to date.

I will say there seems to be alot more talented teams out there this season as reflected by the polls so I will attribute Wash U not getting a ranking to that fact but just making the case for why maybe they should be ranked.

[martin]

They are 9-2 in region (the Central game should not be a regional game since they are in the West Region and the Hanover should not be as they are Great Lakes) and just beat Rochester who was #2 and undefeated prior to the loss.

Central game is in region - new rules.  West and Central teams are in region for each other - as are other pairings of regions.  Don't ask me which.

The Top 25 is a national poll which ignores regional rankings.  The NCAA uses regional rankings at selection time (and ignores national polls). 

In a post on the UAA board, I put Wash down as the #2 team in the UAA at this time (ahead of #8 Rochester, #15 NYU and #17 Brandeis).  On a national level, voters are looking at those four losses.

The season has about a month to go.  The next two weekends are huge for the Bears (and for Chicago).  NYU and Brandeis come to the Midwest this weekend, the Maroons and Bears return the trip the following weekend.  On Sunday, February 4,  as the country sits down to watch da Bears turn the Colts into dog food, the UAA picture will be much clearer.  Or maybe a whole lot muddier.  The national poll will reflect what is going on in the UAA race.

[deiscanton]

They are 9-2 in region (the Central game should not be a regional game since they are in the West Region and the Hanover should not be as they are Great Lakes)

Wash U has 3 in-region losses under the new evaluation rules.

You are correct about the DIII defined regions of the teams.  However, the DIII Championships Committee, in order to expand the definition of in-region contests so as to help teams in the rural areas of DIII meet their 50% in-region schedule requirement, adopted a rule that allows teams in DIII to play any team in their NCAA geographic region (which is different from their DIII defined region) and have those games count as in-region. 

This new rule uses the NCAA's 4 geographic regions, which cover all divisions of the NCAA.  Under this rule, if DIII teams in the same NCAA geographic region play against each other in non-conference play, the game counts as in-region for both teams even if the campuses are over 200 miles away.

This is in addition to the other rules about what games must count in your regional record.  (Of course, you must also count all of your conference games, your non-conference games against teams in your DIII defined region, and your non-conference games against any DIII team within 200 miles of your campus.)

Under these rules,  Central (Iowa) is in the same NCAA geographic region as Wash U (Missouri), so it counts as an in-region game for both teams, even though the campuses are over 200 miles away.   However, not only are DePauw and Hanover over 200 miles away from Wash U, but DePauw and Hanover are also in a different geographic region, (Indiana is not in the same geographic region as Missouri) so these games are still out-of-region for Wash U.

As for the Top 25 poll--

The results are very interesting, indeed.  It should make for a very good race for the rest of the season and the NCAA tournament as to who will end up with the Walnut and Bronze at the very end.   I thought that Howard Payne should have also gotten a 1st place vote myself, but they will deserve to be in the mix for #1 consideration if they win at Hardin-Simmons and McMurry this week. 

[atn alum]

Scranton lost on road by 20, hours after the poll's release.

So now, the mess just got muddier...

Don't be surprised if I pose the same query next weekend that I posed this past one.

[Ralph Turner]

Scranton lost on road by 20, hours after the poll's release.

So now, the mess just got muddier...

Don't be surprised if I pose the same query next weekend that I posed this past one.

Howard Payne played sluggishly and edged a sneakily dangerous Concordia-Austin, 55-48.

HSU smash-mouthed McMurry at McM tonight and hosts HPU with momentum on Thursday.  HPU then plays McMurry on Saturday.  Fortunately for HPU, the Lady Jackets can sleep in their own beds after the HSU game, so it is not one of the usual killer ASC road trips.

[Pat Coleman]

West and Central teams are in region for each other - as are other pairings of regions.  Don't ask me which.

This is not the rule. The rule follows:

http://www.d3hoops.com/faq.php?question=44

Your region includes everything west of the Mississippi, essentially. That includes parts of the South region as well.

[martin]

Pat,

Thanks for the correction.  I should point out that Region 4 includes a bit of territory east of the Mississippi - Illinois and WIsconsin.

[Pat Coleman]

Well that's why I gave you the link to the FAQ, so you could read it for yourself.

[newtonnancy]

YOOOOWWZZZZZZZZZZAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
wbca

1. University of Chicago (Ill.) -7 5 16-0 246
2. Bowdoin College (Maine) - 1 1 17-1 212
3. Messiah College (Pa.) 7T 16-1 206
4. Calvin College (Mich.) 10 15-1 202
5. Wilmington College (Ohio) 9 16-1 196
6. University of Southern Maine 6 15-1 193
7. Howard Payne University (Texas) 12 17-0 192
8. Hope College (Mich.) 3 15-2 191
9. University of Scranton (Pa.) - 2 4 15-2 187
10. University of Rochester (N.Y.) 2 14-2 175
11. DePauw University (Ind.) 11 16-2 145
12. New York University 14T 15-1 138
13. University Of Wisconsin, Stout 14T 15-3 125
14. Illinois Wesleyan University 17 15-1 108
15. Baldwin-Wallace College (Ohio) 7T 14-3 98
16. Hardin-Simmons University (Texas) 18 14-2 95
17. Brandeis University (Mass.) 16 13-2 88
18. McMurry University (Texas) 13 15-2 84
19. University of Mary Washington (Va.) 19 13-2 79
20. University of Puget Sound (Wash.) 21 14-3 57
21. Kean University (N.J.) 23 16-1 42
22. Simpson College (Iowa) 22 14-3 38
23. Maine Maritime Academy (Maine) NR 15-0 27
24. Emmanuel College (Mass.) 25 13-1 21
25. Washington University (Mo.)

[Pat Coleman]

I found it odd in this poll that Scranton has two No. 1 votes but also two losses. When did this vote take place exactly??

[Dark Knight]

I found it odd in this poll that Scranton has two No. 1 votes but also two losses. When did this vote take place exactly??

The release date is Jan. 23 but it doesn't say what game results are used. One wonders if all of the voters had the Scranton result when they voted.

Howard Payne (who played on Monday the 22nd) is listed as 16-0 in the d3hoops poll and 17-0 in the wcba poll.

[Ralph Turner]

I found it odd in this poll that Scranton has two No. 1 votes but also two losses. When did this vote take place exactly??

The release date is Jan. 23 but it doesn't say what game results are used. One wonders if all of the voters had the Scranton result when they voted.

Howard Payne (who played on Monday the 22nd) is listed as 16-0 in the d3hoops poll and 17-0 in the wcba poll.

The records reflect the outcome of the HSU-McMurry game, too.

[Dark Knight]

Another loss by a recently-crowned #1 team -- Chicago, #1 in the coaches poll. They got beat at home by NYU, 75-66.  NYU had a 20-point run in the first half, and McEntree had 23 points and 20 rebounds for NYU.