Top 25 discussion

Ralph Turner · December 30, 2008, 01:23:50 AM

Nice win by UMHB tonight over Southern Maine in San Antonio, 82-73. Ron Boerger reported that UMHB's team speed caused numerous USM turnovers and fastbreak points.

UMHB is picked 4th in a very tough ASC-West behind HPU, HSU and McMurry. The only "ugly" loss by UMHB so far this season might be the Southwestern game (57-53), which opened the season.

There are 8 very strong teams in the 15-member ASC. It won't surprise me if the conference Pool A bid shows strongly this season. Now the Lady Crusaders need to beat Baldwin-Wallace tomorrow night.

Darryl Nester · December 31, 2008, 10:31:09 PM

How They Fared: New Year's Eve edition

Two Monday results are not yet entered in the score database: Eastern Connecticut v. Suffolk, and Union v. Ripon. I found the latter at Union's web site, but cannot track down a report for the former.

Hoosier Titan will post final results on Sunday night.

#1 Rochester (8-0): IDLE
#2 Illinois Wesleyan (9-0): def. Linfield, 75-62; def. Puget Sound, 73-54; 01/03 at St. Francis (Ill.)
#3 Hope (8-0): 01/03 at St. Mary's (Ind.)
#4 Thomas More (9-1): LOST at #11 Oglethorpe, 64-72; def. Piedmont, 84-60; 01/03 vs. Waynesburg
#5 UW-Whitewater (11-1): def. T#38 Union, 79-68; def. Calvin, 67-53; 01/03 vs. UW-River Falls
#6 UW-Eau Claire (11-0): def. Case Western Reserve, 82-40; def. Otterbein, 74-60
#7 Brandeis (9-0): def. Regis (Mass.), 64-58
#8 Simpson (10-1): LOST at St. Thomas, 72-82; 01/03 at Dubuque
#9 Kean (8-2): LOST (neutral site) to Maryville (Mo.), 52-62; def. Lake Forest, 74-59; 01/02 vs. Lebanon Valley (neutral site); 01/03 vs. TBA @ Gettysburg, Pa. (neutral site)
#10 Amherst (11-0): def. Fitchburg State, 79-53; def. Kenyon, 64-36
#11 Oglethorpe (9-1): def. #4 Thomas More, 72-64; 01/02 at Rhodes; 01/04 at Birmingham-Southern
#12 UW-Stevens Point (9-1): def. Edgewood, 72-59; 01/03 at UW-Oshkosh
#13 Mary Washington (9-1): LOST (neutral site) to Montclair State, 53-56; def. Randolph-Macon, 66-50
#14 Southern Maine (9-1): LOST (neutral site) to Mary Hardin-Baylor, 73-82; def. #28 Trinity (Texas), 79-66
#15 DeSales (7-1): 01/03 at Wilkes
#16 Tufts (7-1): def. Catholic, 83-60; def. Worcester Polytech, 81-60
#17 New York University (8-0): 01/03 vs. St. Elizabeth; 01/04 vs. Brockport State
#18 Howard Payne (11-1): def. Nebraska Wesleyan, 70-59; def. St. Joseph's (L.I.), 89-38
#19 George Fox (9-0): def. Warner Pacific, 56-43; 01/02 at Whitworth; 01/03 at #23 Whitman
#20 Messiah (6-2): 01/02 vs. Skidmore (neutral site); 01/03 vs. TBA @ Springfield (neutral site)
#21 Moravian (7-1): 01/02 vs. Frostburg State; 01/03 vs. TBA
#22 Muhlenberg (6-1): 01/03 vs. Arcadia (neutral site); 01/04 vs. TBA @ Marymount (neutral site)
#23 Whitman (8-1): 01/02 vs. Pacific; 01/03 vs. #19 George Fox
#24 Chicago (8-2): 01/03 at Milwaukee Engineering
#25 Emory (6-2): LOST at Birmingham-Southern, 76-93; 01/03 vs. Huntingdon

#26 Texas-Dallas (7-2): LOST at Texas St., 45-68; 01/03 vs. #34 McMurry
#27 Marymount (7-2): def. Lehman, 73-62; 01/03 vs. Christopher Newport; 01/04 vs. TBA
#28 Trinity (Texas) (7-3): LOST (at home) to Baldwin-Wallace, 57-72; LOST (at home) to #14 Southern Maine, 66-79; 01/02 vs. Millsaps; 01/03 vs. Hendrix
#29 Washington U. (7-3): IDLE
#30 Bowdoin (8-2): def. Maine Maritime, 95-56; def. Wheaton (Mass.), 64-39; 01/03 vs. Hamilton
T#31 St. Norbert (6-3): IDLE
T#31 York (Pa.) (8-1): 01/03 vs. Buffalo State; 01/04 vs. TBA
#33 St. Benedict (6-1): 01/03 at St. Mary's (Minn.)
#34 McMurry (6-2): 01/03 at #26 Texas-Dallas
#35 Capital (6-2): 01/03 vs. Marietta
#36 Washington and Jefferson (9-1): def. Northwestern Ohio @ Ohio Wesleyan, 70-58; def. Ohio Wesleyan, 62-50; 01/03 vs. Westminster (Pa.)
#37 DePauw (8-3): def. Baldwin-Wallace, 74-63; def. Spalding, 70-59; def. Trine, 64-54; 01/04 vs. Centre
T#38 Eastern Connecticut (7-1): 12/29 vs. Suffolk (neutral site); def. Williams, 79-73 OT
T#38 Union (6-2): LOST (neutral site) to #5 UW-Whitewater, 68-79; LOST to Ripon (neutral site), 76-72 OT
T#38 Wilmington (9-1): def. St. Mary's (Ind.), 72-58; def. Franklin, 76-70; 01/03 vs. Muskingum

--- Adrian (8-2): LOST at Olivet, 66-71; 01/03 vs. Anderson
--- Greensboro (5-1): def. Mount St. Vincent, 87-75; LOST at Wesley, 60-65; 01/02 vs. Maryville (Tenn.); 01/04 at Mary Baldwin

Ralph Turner · January 04, 2009, 03:06:47 PM

Just one fan's opinion...

HPU, and more importantly, UT-Dallas are Top 25 teams.

(I look for McMurry Women to make a run at the post-season, but will hold the "boosterism" until later in the season.)

UT-Dallas quality wins -- HPU, McMurry 71-67. (Has overtime loss on neutral floor to Saint Benedict MN).

Hoosier Titan · January 04, 2009, 03:52:52 PM

How They Fared through Jan. 4. Complete

"---" next to a team's name means the team is an unranked one we are tracking by request. Post or send along names of any other teams to be tracked.

#1 Rochester (8-0): IDLE
#2 Illinois Wesleyan (10-0): def. Linfield, 75-62; def. Puget Sound, 73-54; def. St. Francis (Ill.), 64-62
#3 Hope (8-1): LOST at St. Mary's (Ind.), 84-91
#4 Thomas More (10-1): LOST at #11 Oglethorpe, 64-72; def. Piedmont, 84-60; def. Waynesburg, 70-45
#5 UW-Whitewater (12-1): def. T#38 Union, 79-68; def. Calvin, 67-53; def. UW-River Falls, 66-52
#6 UW-Eau Claire (11-0): def. Case Western Reserve, 82-40; def. Otterbein, 74-60
#7 Brandeis (9-0): def. Regis (Mass.), 64-58
#8 Simpson (11-1): LOST at St. Thomas, 72-82; def. Dubuque, 92-73
#9 Kean (9-3): LOST (neutral site) to Maryville (Mo.), 52-62; def. Lake Forest, 74-59; def. Lebanon Valley, 55-52; LOST (neutral site) to Scranton, 52-77
#10 Amherst (11-0): def. Fitchburg State, 79-53; def. Kenyon, 64-36
#11 Oglethorpe (11-1): def. #4 Thomas More, 72-64; def. Rhodes, 77-67; def. Birmingham-Southern, 79-61
#12 UW-Stevens Point (10-1): def. Edgewood, 72-59; def. UW-Oshkosh, 71-31
#13 Mary Washington (9-1): LOST (neutral site) to Montclair State, 53-56; def. Randolph-Macon, 66-50
#14 Southern Maine (9-1): LOST (neutral site) to Mary Hardin-Baylor, 73-82; def. #28 Trinity (Texas), 79-66
#15 DeSales (8-1): def. Wilkes, 69-39
#16 Tufts (7-1): def. Catholic, 83-60; def. Worcester Polytech, 81-60
#17 New York University (10-0): def. St. Elizabeth, 65-53; def. Brockport State, 77-51
#18 Howard Payne (11-1): def. Nebraska Wesleyan, 70-59; def. St. Joseph's (L.I.), 89-38
#19 George Fox (11-0): def. Warner Pacific, 56-43; def. Whitworth, 68-50; def. #23 Whitman, 62-51
#20 Messiah (8-2): def. Skidmore, 65-51; def. Salve Regina, 63-57
#21 Moravian (9-1): def. Frostburg State, 67-63; def. William Paterson, 70-58
#22 Muhlenberg (7-2): def. Arcadia, 59-29; LOST at #27 Marymount, 52-56
#23 Whitman (9-2): def. Pacific, 44-43; LOST (at home) to #19 George Fox, 51-62
#24 Chicago (9-2): def. Milwaukee Engineering, 78-51
#25 Emory (7-2): LOST at Birmingham-Southern, 76-93; def. Huntingdon, 86-53

#26 Texas-Dallas (8-2): LOST at Texas St., 45-68; def. #34 McMurry, 71-67
#27 Marymount (9-2): def. Lehman, 73-62; def. Christopher Newport, 82-63; def. #22 Muhlenberg, 56-52
#28 Trinity (Texas) (9-3): LOST (at home) to Baldwin-Wallace, 57-72; LOST (at home) to #14 Southern Maine, 66-79; def. Millsaps, 79-62; def. Hendrix, 90-76
#29 Washington U. (7-3): IDLE
#30 Bowdoin (9-2): def. Maine Maritime, 95-56; def. Wheaton (Mass.), 64-39; def. Hamilton, 49-44
T#31 St. Norbert (6-3): IDLE
T#31 York (Pa.) (10-1): def. Buffalo State, 82-48; def. Franklin and Marshall, 68-45
#33 St. Benedict (7-1): def. St. Mary's (Minn.), 74-55
#34 McMurry (6-3): LOST at #26 Texas-Dallas, 67-71
#35 Capital (7-2): def. Marietta, 81-55
#36 Washington and Jefferson (10-1): def. Northwestern Ohio @ Ohio Wesleyan, 70-58; def. Ohio Wesleyan, 62-50; def. Westminster (Pa.), 79-49
#37 DePauw (9-3): def. Baldwin-Wallace, 74-63; def. Spalding, 70-59; def. Trine, 64-54; def. Centre, 65-48
T#38 Eastern Connecticut (8-1): def. Suffolk, 71-38; def. Williams, 79-73 OT
T#38 Union (6-3): LOST (neutral site) to #5 UW-Whitewater, 68-79; LOST (neutral site) to Ripon, 72-76 OT
T#38 Wilmington (9-2): def. St. Mary's (Ind.), 72-58; def. Franklin, 76-70; LOST (at home) to Muskingum, 60-66
--- Adrian (9-2): LOST at Olivet, 66-71; def. Anderson, 64-63
--- Greensboro (7-1): def. Mount St. Vincent, 87-75; LOST at Wesley, 60-65; def. Maryville (Tenn.), 81-35; def. Mary Baldwin, 94-39

Mr. Ypsi · January 04, 2009, 09:06:06 PM

#3 and #4 both lost, so the battle for first is clearly Rochester vs. IWU (though #6 UWEC is undefeated also). Rochester has been idle since the last poll, while IWU has racked up three more wins (albeit not very impressively). Rochester led by only 6 points in the last poll - who is #1 this week?

As a Titan, I'd take the honor (a #1 bullseye-on-the-back is not THAT much worse than a #2

), but what predict ye?

Hoosier Titan · January 04, 2009, 10:23:25 PM

I was holding back on pushing for the Titans, but you dragged me into it, Mr. Ypsi! While none of IWU's three wins this week are over ranked teams (St. Francis is NAIA), they're certainly nothing to be apologetic about. The Titans went to Tacoma in the midst of the worst weather the Northwest has seen in years; they were late arriving and barely had time for a shoot-around before the Linfield game, which they won by double digits. Then they beat Puget Sound, a quality program, by 19. Yesterday's game was the only close game of the three, and since I wasn't there I'm relying on my family's account that St. Francis is big and the game was physical. That's the kind of competition Mia Smith has been seeking out all season, and the Titans found a way to win.

We should remember that these wins have come without IWU's All-American point guard, Mallory Heydorn. I'm impressed with the depth, resilience, and tenacity of the Titans right now, and those traits are more important than whether they're #1 or #2. That said, I think they'd be a worthy choice.

SabineBBall · January 05, 2009, 01:47:07 AM

I think HPU got dinged/dropped too much for the loss to UTD. I guess at the time it looked like a bad loss but UTD/HPU are proving that wrong. Hopefully UTD beats Hardin Simmons on Monday and can crack the top 25 for the first time ever!

Just Bill · January 05, 2009, 12:28:09 PM

I'd suggest keeping an eye on Concordia (Wis.). CUW is 7-2 with both of their losses coming on opening weekend to preseason #1 UW-Whitewater and current #6 UW-Eau Claire. They held leads in the second half of each of those games.

http://northernac.org/sports/basketball_women/statistics/2008-09/cuw.htm

Mr. Ypsi · January 05, 2009, 07:30:22 PM

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 04, 2009, 09:06:06 PM
#3 and #4 both lost, so the battle for first is clearly Rochester vs. IWU (though #6 UWEC is undefeated also). Rochester has been idle since the last poll, while IWU has racked up three more wins (albeit not very impressively). Rochester led by only 6 points in the last poll - who is #1 this week?

As a Titan, I'd take the honor (a #1 bullseye-on-the-back is not THAT much worse than a #2 ), but what predict ye?

Well, Rochester retains #1, but the gap falls to 4 points. UWEC jumped to #3, but with enough of a point gap that their rise probably is stalled unless UR or IWU falls (though IWU no longer has any ranked teams on the horizon, while UR and UWEC both do).

Hoosier Titan · January 05, 2009, 09:03:54 PM

The other poll (do we talk about that here?

) should be interesting--two weeks ago, Hope was #1 with IWU and Rochester dead even in overall votes in second.

thebear · January 06, 2009, 03:13:43 PM

In the for what it's worth Dept.

Zero loss teams not receiving votes

Trinity (CT) 8-0
Roanoke, VA 8-0

One Loss Teams not receiving votes

Pitt-Greensburg (9-1)
E. Mennonite (VA) (8-1)
SUNY Potsdam (NY) (7-1)
Greensboro (NC) (7-1)
Cabrini (PA) (5-1)
Washington (Md) (5-1)

Should keep these on the radar screen.

Ethelred the Unready · January 08, 2009, 08:29:42 AM

Does anyone know if there is a ranking for all DIII women's team similar to the men's?

Ralph Turner · January 08, 2009, 09:38:13 AM

Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on January 08, 2009, 08:29:42 AM
Does anyone know if there is a ranking for all DIII women's team similar to the men's?

Massey does not have one for women this year.

http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw

Darryl Nester · January 08, 2009, 10:01:44 AM

How They Fared -- Midweek report
Please let me know if I missed anything ...

Top 25
#1 Rochester (9-0): def. Scranton, 49-38; 01/09 at #5 Brandeis; 01/11 at #13 New York University
#2 Illinois Wesleyan (11-0): def. Augustana, 65-46; 01/10 vs. Carthage
#3 UW-Eau Claire (12-0): def. UW-Superior, 48-43; 01/10 at #4 UW-Whitewater
#4 UW-Whitewater (13-1): def. #38 UW-La Crosse, 70-61; 01/10 vs. #3 UW-Eau Claire
#5 Brandeis (10-0): def. Rhode Island College, 77-47; 01/09 vs. #1 Rochester; 01/11 vs. Carnegie Mellon
#6 Oglethorpe (12-1): def. Maryville (Tenn.), 70-58; 01/10 vs. Sewanee
#7 Amherst (12-0): def. Wesleyan, 57-54; 01/10 at Williams
#8 Hope (9-1): def. Kalamazoo, 103-44; 01/10 at Trine
#9 Thomas More (11-1): def. Grove City, 74-41; 01/10 at T#31 Washington and Jefferson
#10 UW-Stevens Point (12-1): def. Lawrence, 80-39; def. UW-River Falls, 71-51; 01/10 at UW-Platteville
#11 Simpson (12-1): def. Luther, 73-43; 01/10 vs. Loras
#12 DeSales (9-1): def. Eastern, 83-46; 01/10 vs. Alvernia
#13 New York University (10-0): 01/09 vs. Carnegie Mellon; 01/11 vs. #1 Rochester
#14 George Fox (11-0): 01/09 at Lewis and Clark; 01/10 vs. Puget Sound
#15 Tufts (8-1): def. Emmanuel, 65-55; 01/10 at Bates
#16 Howard Payne (11-1): 01/08 at Texas-Tyler
#17 Mary Washington (9-2): LOST (at home) to #26 York (Pa.), 72-77
#18 Moravian (10-1): def. Alvernia, 80-64; 01/09 vs. Juniata; 01/10 vs. Susquehanna
#19 Messiah (8-2): 01/08 vs. Hood; 01/10 at Elizabethtown
#20 Southern Maine (11-1): def. Husson, 81-64; def. Colby, 75-66; 01/10 vs. #37 Eastern Connecticut
#21 Chicago (9-2): 01/10 vs. #28 Washington U.
#22 Kean (10-3): def. Rowan, 82-48; 01/10 vs. Ramapo
#23 Marymount (9-2): 01/10 at Wesley
#24 Whitman (9-2): 01/09 at Linfield; 01/10 at Willamette
#25 Texas-Dallas (9-2): def. Hardin-Simmons, 83-82; 01/08 vs. Texas Lutheran; 01/10 vs. Schreiner

Others Receiving Votes
#26 York (Pa.) (11-1): def. #17 Mary Washington, 77-72; 01/10 vs. Salisbury
#27 St. Benedict (9-1): def. St. Olaf, 68-48; def. Augsburg, 67-42; 01/10 vs. Concordia-Moorhead
#28 Washington U. (8-3): def. Webster, 78-46; 01/10 at #21 Chicago
#29 Muhlenberg (8-2): def McDaniel 77-76 OT; 01/10 vs. Gettysburg
#30 Bowdoin (10-2): def. Maine-Farmington, 78-41; 01/08 at Bates; 01/10 at Emmanuel
T#31 Emory (8-2): def. Agnes Scott, 85-45; 01/10 at Case Western Reserve
T#31 Washington and Jefferson (11-1): def. Thiel, 82-46; 01/10 vs. #9 Thomas More
#33 St. Norbert (6-4): LOST at Beloit, 52-65; 01/10 vs. Ripon
#34 DePauw (9-3): 01/09 vs. Birmingham-Southern; 01/11 vs. Rhodes
#35 Capital (8-2): def. Mount Union, 67-53; 01/10 at Ohio Northern
#36 Trinity (Texas) (9-3): 01/09 at Southwestern
#37 Eastern Connecticut (9-1): def. Worcester State, 72-35; 01/10 at #20 Southern Maine
#38 UW-La Crosse (9-4): LOST (at home) to #4 UW-Whitewater, 61-70; 01/10 vs. UW-Stout
T#39 Gustavus Adolphus (8-2): LOST at Macalester, 71-88; def. St. Olaf, 57-40; 01/10 at Hamline
T#39 McMurry (7-3): def. University of the Ozarks, 66-48; 01/08 at LeTourneau; 01/10 at East Texas Baptist
T#39 Westfield State (9-2): 01/08 at Keene State; 01/10 at Bridgewater State
#42 Wilmington (10-2): def. Ohio Northern, 63-62 OT; 01/10 at Mount Union

Other teams to watch (as suggested by posters on this board)
--- Greensboro (7-1): IDLE
--- Concordia (Wis.) (8-2): def. Marian, 82-42; 01/10 vs. Milwaukee Engineering
--- Trinity (Conn.) (9-0): def. Rivier, 63-46; 01/08 at St. Joseph (Conn.); 01/10 at Simmons
--- Washington College (6-1): def. Hood, 86-52; 01/08 vs. Valley Forge Chrst.; 01/10 vs. Franklin and Marshall
--- Eastern Mennonite (8-2): LOST at Bridgewater (Va.), 56-61; 01/09 at Emory and Henry; 01/10 at Guilford
--- Cabrini (6-2): 01/10 vs. Baptist Bible
--- Roanoke (8-1): LOST at Lynchburg, 60-61; 01/09 vs. Randolph-Macon; 01/10 vs. Virginia Wesleyan
--- Pitt-Greensburg (9-1): 01/10 vs. Medaille
--- Potsdam State (8-1): def. Skidmore, 75-68; 01/09 at Buffalo State; 01/10 at Fredonia State
--- Adrian (9-3): LOST (at home) to St. Mary's (Ind.), 69-74; 01/10 at Kalamazoo

Darryl Nester · January 08, 2009, 10:05:56 AM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 08, 2009, 09:38:13 AM
Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on January 08, 2009, 08:29:42 AM
Does anyone know if there is a ranking for all DIII women's team similar to the men's?
Massey does not have one for women this year.

http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw

Massey doesn't have men's ratings either (http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb).

~~There is another web site that uses some system for rating the teams, but I'm drawing a blank on the name (and don't have it bookmarked on this computer). I believe that site only rates men's teams.~~

All the links I have only do men's D3 teams:

Talismanred.com has ratings for D3 men (as well as the less-important D1 and D2 ), but only for D1 women. These rankings are based on a system developed by David Wilson (intended for football); the technical details are here.
Peter Wolfe (UCLA) ranks men's teams. He lumps 1528 four-year schools into a single list (NCAA [all divisions], NAIA, NCCAA), and some others); UW-Platteville is the highest D3 team at #271. Wolfe's rankings are based on his own (undisclosed) system.
Wolfe also posts an alternate set of men's rankings (Wheaton is the highest D3 team at #184). These rankings are based on a system developed by "Dave Rothman, a friend and a pioneer in the mathematics of sports ratings, [who] died June 14, 2004."

The Wilson and Rothman systems are open, so an ambitious fan could apply them to D3 women's score. (I might take a shot at doing so, but right now I've got a lot of other projects to tackle.) A brief search of the Web did not immediately reveal a link to a description of Rothman's system, but I suspect that Peter Wolfe would provide it on request.