Top 25 discussion

[Hoosier Titan]

Hoop Junkie,
There is information on the d3hoops.com poll voters with the poll itself which can be accessed from the d3hoops.com home page:
http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/

Darryl and I have just been keeping track of how the teams in the poll did each week; we don't select the teams.

This board has often been used to get the word out on teams that people feel are underrepresented in the polls.  It's been quiet so far this year but we'd welcome more discussion.  Feel free to jump in--welcome!

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (so far)

#1 Rochester (8-0): IDLE
#2 Illinois Wesleyan (6-0): 12/19 vs. Fontbonne
#3 Hope (8-0): def. Elmhurst, 72-49; def. Carthage, 64-46
#4 Thomas More (7-0): 12/20 at Westminster (Pa.)
#5 UW-Whitewater (8-1): def. UW-Oshkosh, 65-49; 12/20 vs. Rockford
#6 UW-Eau Claire (9-0): 12/20 at South Dakota
#7 Brandeis (8-0): IDLE
#8 Kean (7-1): 12/19 vs. Scranton
#9 Simpson (9-0): def. Muskingum, 86-55; 12/18 vs. #21 Marymount (neutral site)
#10 Oglethorpe (6-1): 12/19 vs. T#29 St. Norbert; 12/20 vs. LaGrange; 12/21 vs. Transylvania
#11 Amherst (9-0): IDLE
#12 Mary Washington (8-0): IDLE
#13 UW-Stevens Point (8-1): IDLE
#14 Muhlenberg (6-1): LOST (at home) to #26 Moravian, 87-98
#15 DeSales (7-1): IDLE
#16 Southern Maine (8-0): IDLE
T#17 Messiah (5-2): 12/18 vs. Juniata
T#17 Tufts (5-1): IDLE
#19 Howard Payne (7-1): 12/18 vs. Mississippi College; 12/20 vs. Louisiana College
#20 New York University (8-0): IDLE
#21 Marymount (6-1): def. Manhattanville, 61-53; 12/18 vs. #9 Simpson (neutral site)
#22 Chicago (7-2): def. Kalamazoo, 79-40; 12/18 vs. Loras
#23 George Fox (6-0): 12/19 vs. Virginia Wesleyan (neutral site); 12/20 vs. Bridgewater (Va.) (neutral site)
#24 Whitman (8-1): IDLE
#25 Emory (6-1): IDLE
#26 Moravian (7-1): def. #14 Muhlenberg, 98-87
#27 McMurry (4-2): LOST at Hardin-Simmons, 78-89; 12/19 vs. Peace (neutral site); 12/21 vs. Bates (neutral site)
#28 Texas-Dallas (6-1): 12/18 at Austin
T#29 Bowdoin (6-2): IDLE
T#29 St. Norbert (5-2): def. Finlandia, 69-49; 12/19 at #10 Oglethorpe; 12/20 vs. Transylvania (neutral site)
#31 Capital (5-1): 12/19 vs. #32 Washington U. (neutral site); 12/20 vs. Carnegie Mellon (neutral site)
#32 Washington U. (5-3): 12/19 vs. #31 Capital (neutral site); 12/20 at Hanover
#33 Trinity (Texas) (7-1): IDLE
#34 St. Benedict (6-1): IDLE
#35 York (Pa.) (8-1): IDLE
#36 DePauw (5-3): IDLE
#37 Baldwin-Wallace (4-3): def. Mount Union, 67-54; 12/20 vs. T#38 Wilmington
T#38 Eastern Connecticut (6-1): IDLE
T#38 Washington and Jefferson (6-1): 12/18 at Case Western Reserve
T#38 Wilmington (6-1): 12/20 at #37 Baldwin-Wallace

[Darryl Nester]

Related to the "How They Fared" postings, I need to use the collective wisdom of those who read these boards:  Are there any D3 schools where the men's and women's teams belong to different conferences? (If the answer is yes, I need to make a slight change in my program.)

[Hoosier Titan]

I hope that the two of you will collaborate.

It is nice to have an extra sets of eyes and a back-up poster to handle scheduling difficulties.

We're on it, Ralph!  Darryl's computer knowledge is fantastic.  I'm learning more about UNIX while indulging in my hoops obsession.

[Hoosier Titan]

How they fared through December 21 (complete):

#1 Rochester (8-0): IDLE
#2 Illinois Wesleyan (7-0): def. Fontbonne, 101-53
#3 Hope (8-0): def. Elmhurst, 72-49; def. Carthage, 64-46
#4 Thomas More (8-0): def. Westminster (Pa.), 81-57
#5 UW-Whitewater (9-1): def. UW-Oshkosh, 65-49; def. Rockford, 82-35
#6 UW-Eau Claire (9-0): 12/20 at South Dakota postponed
#7 Brandeis (8-0): IDLE
#8 Kean (7-1): 12/19 vs. Scranton postponed
#9 Simpson (10-0): def. Muskingum, 86-55; def. #21 Marymount, 72-66
#10 Oglethorpe (7-1): def. T#29 St. Norbert, 82-69; def. Transylvania 85-73
#11 Amherst (9-0): IDLE
#12 Mary Washington (8-0): IDLE
#13 UW-Stevens Point (8-1): IDLE
#14 Muhlenberg (6-1): LOST (at home) to #26 Moravian, 87-98
#15 DeSales (7-1): IDLE
#16 Southern Maine (8-0): IDLE
T#17 Messiah (6-2): def. Juniata, 79-67
T#17 Tufts (5-1): IDLE
#19 Howard Payne (9-1): def. Mississippi College, 59-56; def. Louisiana College, 74-67
#20 New York University (8-0): IDLE
#21 Marymount (6-2): def. Manhattanville, 61-53; LOST (neutral site) to #9 Simpson, 66-72
#22 Chicago (8-2): def. Kalamazoo, 79-40; def. Loras, 76-60
#23 George Fox (8-0): def. Virginia Wesleyan, 56-53; def. Bridgewater (Va.), 64-52
#24 Whitman (8-1): IDLE
#25 Emory (6-1): IDLE

#26 Moravian (7-1): def. #14 Muhlenberg, 98-87
#27 McMurry (5-2): LOST at Hardin-Simmons, 78-89; def. Peace, 68-50; def. Bates (neutral site) 66-42
#28 Texas-Dallas (7-1): def. Austin, 65-58
T#29 Bowdoin (6-2): IDLE
T#29 St. Norbert (6-3): def. Finlandia, 69-49; LOST at #10 Oglethorpe, 69-82; def. Transylvania, 78-49
#31 Capital (6-2): LOST (neutral site) to #32 Washington U., 56-60; def. Carnegie Mellon, 70-44
#32 Washington U. (7-3): def. #31 Capital, 60-56; def. Hanover, 87-48
#33 Trinity (Texas) (7-1): IDLE
#34 St. Benedict (6-1): IDLE
#35 York (Pa.) (8-1): IDLE
#36 DePauw (5-3): IDLE
#37 Baldwin-Wallace (4-4): def. Mount Union, 67-54; LOST (at home) to T#38 Wilmington, 60-72
T#38 Eastern Connecticut (6-1): IDLE
T#38 Washington and Jefferson (7-1): def. Case Western Reserve, 65-52
T#38 Wilmington (7-1): def. #37 Baldwin-Wallace, 72-60

Compiled using software by Darryl Nester.  Please let one of us know of any discrepancies.

[Darryl Nester]

In an attempt to address concerns on the Men's Top 25 discussion board about teams not receiving the respect they deserve ... and because I had to make a few tweaks in my program anyway ... I added an option to specify a list of additional teams which had not received votes, but might deserve attention from the voters.

So far that list includes Cal Lutheran, Ohio Northern, and Mount Union (on the men's side).  Are there any teams I should add on the women's side?

(P.S. Hoosier Titan -- I'll send you the updated program once I've tested it a little more thoroughly.)

[iwumichigander]

In an attempt to address concerns on the Men's Top 25 discussion board about teams not receiving the respect they deserve ... and because I had to make a few tweaks in my program anyway ... I added an option to specify a list of additional teams which had not received votes, but might deserve attention from the voters.

So far that list includes Cal Lutheran, Ohio Northern, and Mount Union (on the men's side).  Are there any teams I should add on the women's side?

(P.S. Hoosier Titan -- I'll send you the updated program once I've tested it a little more thoroughly.)

Darryl - You and Hoosier Titan will go nuts expanding the list.  The next thing folks will want is a list for teams receiving respect they did not deserve!

[sac]

Adrian is 8-2

[Ralph Turner]

In an attempt to address concerns on the Men's Top 25 discussion board about teams not receiving the respect they deserve ... and because I had to make a few tweaks in my program anyway ... I added an option to specify a list of additional teams which had not received votes, but might deserve attention from the voters.

So far that list includes Cal Lutheran, Ohio Northern, and Mount Union (on the men's side).  Are there any teams I should add on the women's side?

(P.S. Hoosier Titan -- I'll send you the updated program once I've tested it a little more thoroughly.)

Darryl, I appreciate your keeping the "receiving votes" on the radar screen.

We are talking about 39 Pool A's, 3 Pool B's, 18 Pool C's, and another 10-12 bubble teams that will be identified in the regional rankings when they come out in February.  I think that our discussions about what teams need to do to rise in the rankings will be borne out as the season progresses.

[Darryl Nester]

...So far that list includes Cal Lutheran, Ohio Northern, and Mount Union (on the men's side).  Are there any teams I should add on the women's side?

Darryl - You and Hoosier Titan will go nuts expanding the list.  The next thing folks will want is a list for teams receiving respect they did not deserve!

Some discussion of undeserved recognition has already come up on the men's board since the last poll, in the form of "Why does ___ get votes, but ___ (who beat them) does not?"

I am thinking of this feature as a "band-aid" solution.  At this point in the season, there are a few teams which have good records but haven't gotten recognition--perhaps for good reason, or perhaps merely because they aren't on the voters' list of usual suspects. I have faith in the collective wisdom of the voters, but if "How They Fared" is (in part) about getting information to the voters, a little more information cannot hurt.

It is certainly possible that such a list might get a bit long, but so far, it contains only four teams.  In addition, it has the benefit of being self-correcting: Teams generally show their true capability as the season wears on, as Ralph already said:

We are talking about 39 Pool A's, 3 Pool B's, 18 Pool C's, and another 10-12 bubble teams that will be identified in the regional rankings when they come out in February.  I think that our discussions about what teams need to do to rise in the rankings will be borne out as the season progresses.

... a good reminder that ultimately, a team's position in the poll--especially on the low end--is only an imperfect measure of that team's potential to make the post-season.

[Ralph Turner]

Darryl, my bad on those bid numbers for the women...   

We are talking about 40 Pool A's, 3 Pool B's and 20 Pool C bids.   

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (so far): Six games in the top 10, plus three more in the trailing edge of the poll (and one more for Adrian, added as an "extra" team) ... but there's plenty more action coming up in the next week:

#1 Rochester (8-0): IDLE
#2 Illinois Wesleyan (9-0): def. Linfield, 75-62; def. Puget Sound, 73-54; 01/03 at St. Francis (Ill.)
#3 Hope (8-0): 01/03 at St. Mary's (Ind.)
#4 Thomas More (8-0): 12/29 at #11 Oglethorpe; 12/31 at Piedmont; 01/03 vs. Waynesburg
#5 UW-Whitewater (10-1): def. T#38 Union, 79-68; 12/30 vs. Calvin (neutral site); 01/03 vs. UW-River Falls
#6 UW-Eau Claire (11-0): def. Case Western Reserve, 82-40; def. Otterbein, 74-60
#7 Brandeis (8-0): 12/31 vs. Regis (Mass.)
#8 Simpson (10-0): 12/30 at St. Thomas; 01/03 at Dubuque
#9 Kean (7-1): 12/28 vs. Lake Forest (neutral site); 12/29 vs. Maryville (Mo.) (neutral site); 12/31 vs. Lake Forest (neutral site); 01/02 vs. Lebanon Valley (neutral site); 01/03 vs. TBA  @ Gettysburg, Pa. (neutral site)
#10 Amherst (10-0): def. Fitchburg State, 79-53; 12/29 vs. Kenyon (neutral site)
#11 Oglethorpe (8-1): 12/29 vs. #4 Thomas More; 01/02 at Rhodes; 01/04 at Birmingham-Southern
#12 UW-Stevens Point (8-1): 12/30 vs. Edgewood; 01/03 at UW-Oshkosh
#13 Mary Washington (8-0): 12/29 vs. Randolph-Macon (neutral site); 12/30 vs. Montclair State (neutral site)
#14 Southern Maine (8-0): 12/29 vs. Mary Hardin-Baylor (neutral site); 12/30 at #28 Trinity (Texas)
#15 DeSales (7-1): 01/03 at Wilkes
#16 Tufts (5-1): 12/30 vs. Catholic (neutral site); 12/31 at TBA
#17 New York University (8-0): 01/03 vs. St. Elizabeth; 01/04 vs. Brockport State
#18 Howard Payne (9-1): 12/29 vs. Nebraska Wesleyan (neutral site); 12/30 vs. St. Joseph's (L.I.) (neutral site)
#19 George Fox (8-0): 12/29 at Warner Pacific; 01/02 at Whitworth; 01/03 at #23 Whitman
#20 Messiah (6-2): 01/02 vs. Skidmore (neutral site); 01/03 vs. TBA  @ Springfield (neutral site)
#21 Moravian (7-1): 01/02 vs. Frostburg State; 01/03 vs. TBA
#22 Muhlenberg (6-1): 01/03 vs. Arcadia (neutral site); 01/04 vs. TBA  @ Marymount (neutral site)
#23 Whitman (8-1): 01/02 vs. Pacific; 01/03 vs. #19 George Fox
#24 Chicago (8-2): 01/03 at Milwaukee Engineering
#25 Emory (6-1): 12/30 at Birmingham-Southern; 01/03 vs. Huntingdon

#26 Texas-Dallas (7-1): 12/30 at Texas St.; 01/03 vs. #34 McMurry
#27 Marymount (6-2): 12/30 vs. Lehman; 01/03 vs. Christopher Newport; 01/04 vs. TBA
#28 Trinity (Texas) (7-1): 12/29 vs. Baldwin-Wallace; 12/30 vs. #14 Southern Maine; 01/02 vs. Millsaps; 01/03 vs. Hendrix
#29 Washington U. (7-3): IDLE
#30 Bowdoin (6-2): 12/30 vs. Maine Maritime; 12/31 vs. Wheaton (Mass.); 01/03 vs. Hamilton
T#31 St. Norbert (6-3): IDLE
T#31 York (Pa.) (8-1): 01/03 vs. Buffalo State; 01/04 vs. Frank. & Marsh. / North Park
#33 St. Benedict (6-1): 01/03 at St. Mary's (Minn.)
#34 McMurry (6-2): 01/03 at #26 Texas-Dallas
#35 Capital (6-2): 01/03 vs. Marietta
#36 Washington and Jefferson (7-1): 01/03 vs. Westminster (Pa.)
#37 DePauw (7-3): def. Baldwin-Wallace, 74-63; def. Spalding, 70-59; 12/29 vs. Trine; 01/04 vs. Centre
T#38 Eastern Connecticut (6-1): 12/29 vs. Suffolk (neutral site); 12/30 vs. Williams (neutral site)
T#38 Union (6-2): LOST (neutral site) to #5 UW-Whitewater, 68-79; 12/29 vs. Ripon (neutral site)
T#38 Wilmington (7-1): 12/29 vs. St. Mary's (Ind.) (neutral site); 12/30 at TBA; 01/03 vs. Muskingum

--- Adrian (8-2): LOST at Olivet, 66-71; 01/03 vs. Anderson

Darryl, my bad on those bid numbers for the women...  

We are talking about 40 Pool A's, 3 Pool B's and 20 Pool C bids.   

Ralph:  Yeah, I was going to say something but I didn't want to embarrass you.

[PrideFan1986]

In an attempt to address concerns on the Men's Top 25 discussion board about teams not receiving the respect they deserve ... and because I had to make a few tweaks in my program anyway ... I added an option to specify a list of additional teams which had not received votes, but might deserve attention from the voters.

So far that list includes Cal Lutheran, Ohio Northern, and Mount Union (on the men's side).  Are there any teams I should add on the women's side?

(P.S. Hoosier Titan -- I'll send you the updated program once I've tested it a little more thoroughly.)

I think Greensboro  College Women should be getting a look

[Pat Coleman]

Greensboro hasn't beaten anyone with a winning record so far, so that's going to hurt them.

[Ralph Turner]

...

Darryl, my bad on those bid numbers for the women...  

We are talking about 40 Pool A's, 3 Pool B's and 20 Pool C bids.   

Ralph:  Yeah, I was going to say something but I didn't want to embarrass you.

Don't worry about that!  Corrections are always appreciated.

Thanks for the job that you do.