Top 25 discussion

[jumphigh]

OK I stand corrected.  Just saw that they were ranked higher than defending chams George Fox, with the same amount of losses.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	620	Illinois Wesleyan	15-0	def. Millikin, 64-42; def. Elmhurst, 74-64
#2	595	Amherst	15-0	def. Clark, 87-44; def. Wesleyan, 89-49; def. Connecticut College, 91-35
#3	570	Washington U.	13-1	def. #32 Brandeis, 67-57; def. New York University, 70-50
#4	559	Kean	17-1	def. Richard Stockton, 63-51; def. Ramapo, 79-64
#5	500	Marymount	15-1	def. Stevenson, 47-27; LOST at Mary Washington, 57-65
#6	498	Hope	14-1	def. St. Mary's (Ind.), 91-72; def. Albion, 50-34
#7	443	Scranton	12-2	def. Juniata, 87-76; def. Susquehanna, 60-52
#8	419	Bowdoin	12-2	def. William Smith, 74-58; def. Hamilton, 59-47; LOST to Colby, 56-64
#9	406	Muhlenberg	10-2	LOST to McDaniel, 71-72 OT; def. #21 Gettysburg, 60-59; def. Washington College, 75-51
#10	352	George Fox	13-2	def. Willamette, 74-54; def. Linfield, 83-49
#11	332	Tufts	13-2	LOST at Williams, 57-59; def. Middlebury, 62-56
#12	303	Carthage	12-3	LOST to Elmhurst, 65-73; def. Augustana, 78-71
#13	297	William Paterson	16-1	def. Rutgers-Newark, 74-36; def. Richard Stockton, 77-73
#14	267	Messiah	14-1	def. Lycoming, 70-48; def. Alvernia, 76-65
#15	259	UW-Whitewater	12-4	def. UW-Oshkosh, 76-64; LOST at UW-Eau Claire, 53-57
#16	253	Moravian	13-2	def. Susquehanna, 70-53; def. Juniata, 78-73
#17	248	Calvin	14-1	def. Albion, 65-44; def. Adrian, 66-52
#18	243	UW-River Falls	14-2	LOST to UW-La Crosse, 52-67; def. UW-Platteville, 88-59
#19	150	Thomas More	13-2	def. Bethany, 78-71 OT; def. Thiel, 74-50
#20	122	Christopher Newport	15-0	def. North Carolina Wesleyan, 84-29; def. Averett, 76-58; def. Ferrum, 74-60
#21	120	Gettysburg	13-1	def. Bryn Mawr, 83-34; LOST to #9 Muhlenberg, 59-60
#22	108	Puget Sound	13-2	def. Whitworth, 66-57; def. Whitman, 68-66
#23	102	Howard Payne	12-3	def. Concordia-Austin, 67-53; LOST at Mary Hardin-Baylor, 59-63
#24	98	UW-Stevens Point	13-3	def. Edgewood, 61-47; def. UW-Platteville, 66-45; def. UW-Superior, 59-55
#25	84	Emmanuel	11-4	def. Lasell, 67-35; LOST at Salem State, 55-69; def. Suffolk, 79-64

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	57	Washington and Jefferson	13-2	def. Chatham, 53-50; def. Waynesburg, 65-49
#27	28	Chicago	10-4	def. New York University, 71-61; def. #32 Brandeis, 74-61
#28	18	Mount Union	14-2	def. Muskingum, 70-58; def. Capital, 76-66
#29	17	Lewis and Clark	12-3	def. Willamette, 61-40; def. Pacific, 81-67
#30	11	St. Benedict	10-3	def. Hamline, 71-64; LOST to St. Thomas, 65-66
#31	10	Southern Maine	11-4	def. Rhode Island College, 66-62; LOST at Eastern Connecticut, 52-54
#32	9	Brandeis	8-5	LOST at #3 Washington U., 57-67; LOST at #27 Chicago, 61-74
#33	8	Louisiana College	11-2	def. #36 Mississippi College, 68-53; def. Texas-Tyler, 78-59
T#34	6	Simpson	12-3	def. Buena Vista, 81-70; def. Coe, 80-73
T#34	6	St. Norbert	9-3	def. Knox, 78-52; def. Grinnell, 74-53
#36	4	Mississippi College	12-3	LOST to #33 Louisiana College, 53-68; def. Texas-Tyler, 76-67
#37	2	DePauw	13-3	def. Hendrix, 65-52; def. Millsaps, 71-35
#38	1	Cal Lutheran	10-4	def. La Verne, 69-56; LOST to Occidental, 69-72

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Battle for the lead in the MIAA on Tuesday night when #17 Calvin plays at #6 Hope.  This game always draws a decent crowd - but given it's on a Tuesday (no mens games going on) and the fact that both are rated, I predict 2500+

[Wydown Blvd.]

I think the odds are high that the new top five (IWU, Amherst, WashU, Kean, and Hope) stay unchanged for the rest of the season. Anyone disagree or think there is a loss coming to one of those teams?

[sumfun]

Amherst goes on the road for 7 games in a row, 3 of which are against top 25 teams @ Colby, Tufts and Bowdoin.  That's a tough stretch for any team and though they seem to be stronger than any of those teams on paper, there easily could be an upset in making as Tufts and Bowdoin fill up their gyms for big games.

[sunny]

I think the odds are high that the new top five (IWU, Amherst, WashU, Kean, and Hope) stay unchanged for the rest of the season. Anyone disagree or think there is a loss coming to one of those teams?

Let's see ...

Illinois Wesleyan:  @ Carthage and home against Elmhurst are their two strongest remaining opponents on paper.  Of course, they waxed Carthage at home and have already beaten Elmhurst on the road.  We'll see.

Amherst:  The above poster covered this one - brutal stretch coming up, especially with Bowdoin and Colby road games less than 24 hours apart. 

Wash U:  The UAA is no cakewalk by any means and I would keep an eye out for the Bears' game @ Rochester.  Rochester has defended home court against Wash U each of the past two seasons and is 12-2 this year. 

Kean: Of the top five, this is the one that would surprise me the most in losing before the end of the regular season.  Both games against TCNJ remain, which, before the season began, would have looked like some tough tests, but the Lions have not had the season most people were expecting.

Hope: Two games remaining against Calvin, including Feb. 3rd on the road.  Let's not forget that Calvin has just one loss as well - a nine-point road loss to Carthage, who Hope lost to by four on a neutral court. 

With so many conference games left, it wouldn't surprise me if at least one of these teams lost.  I think Kean is the least likely to lose, followed by Illinois Wesleyan, Hope, Amherst, and Wash U (though the last three are really close ... of course, with Hope if they can sweep Calvin, I can't see them losing to anyone else in the regular season).  That's based almost entirely on remaining schedule and shouldn't be misconstrued as a ranking of those five teams.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Hope wins round 1 of The Rivalry 73-58 over Calvin.  Hope built a big lead in the first half (up 17 at halftime).  Calvin got to within 10 in the second half.  Calvin had 24 turnovers on 18 Hope steals.  Played in front of a crowd of 3177!! 

So does this loss drop Calvin significantly in the poll?

[sunny]

Hope wins round 1 of The Rivalry 73-58 over Calvin.  Hope built a big lead in the first half (up 17 at halftime).  Calvin got to within 10 in the second half.  Calvin had 24 turnovers on 18 Hope steals.  Played in front of a crowd of 3177!! 

So does this loss drop Calvin significantly in the poll?

Hard to say.  I can't drop them very far in my ranking.  I have them at #8 and there are AT MOST three teams that I would put them behind now and, of course, that's without anyone else losing ...

Great win for Hope, though.  Despite that loss to Carthage earlier in the year, it may be that our "big four" is indeed now a "big five." 

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Hard to say.  I can't drop them very far in my ranking.  I have them at #8 and there are AT MOST three teams that I would put them behind now and, of course, that's without anyone else losing ...

Great win for Hope, though.  Despite that loss to Carthage earlier in the year, it may be that our "big four" is indeed now a "big five." 

No argument there.  Add to this the fact that Hope has been playing without their 6'3" AA center Carrie Snikkers since prior to the Carthage game (stress fracture).  One of the coaches shared on the radio last night that she has been cleared to begin practicing again.  We will never know the answer to this for sure, but I'm extremely confident that with her in the lineup, the Carthage loss would have been a Hope win.

[Ralph Turner]

Hard to say.  I can't drop them very far in my ranking.  I have them at #8 and there are AT MOST three teams that I would put them behind now and, of course, that's without anyone else losing ...

Great win for Hope, though.  Despite that loss to Carthage earlier in the year, it may be that our "big four" is indeed now a "big five." 

No argument there.  Add to this the fact that Hope has been playing without their 6'3" AA center Carrie Snikkers since prior to the Carthage game (stress fracture).  One of the coaches shared on the radio last night that she has been cleared to begin practicing again.  We will never know the answer to this for sure, but I'm extremely confident that with her in the lineup, the Carthage loss would have been a Hope win.

I saw Snikkers when Hope came to Howard Payne in 2008 for the Elite 8.

She is good!  That is a "game changer" for me!

[Mr. Ypsi]

Hard to say.  I can't drop them very far in my ranking.  I have them at #8 and there are AT MOST three teams that I would put them behind now and, of course, that's without anyone else losing ...

Great win for Hope, though.  Despite that loss to Carthage earlier in the year, it may be that our "big four" is indeed now a "big five." 

No argument there.  Add to this the fact that Hope has been playing without their 6'3" AA center Carrie Snikkers since prior to the Carthage game (stress fracture).  One of the coaches shared on the radio last night that she has been cleared to begin practicing again.  We will never know the answer to this for sure, but I'm extremely confident that with her in the lineup, the Carthage loss would have been a Hope win.

I saw Snikkers when Hope came to Howard Payne in 2008 for the Elite 8.

She is good!  That is a "game changer" for me!

My dream match-up is a title game of Snikkers vs. Solari.  I 'hope' the selection committee will allow it - then 'hope' the two teams can pull it off!

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared

(Note: I deleted the midweek report, as there had been no discussion here since I posted it Thursday.)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	620	Illinois Wesleyan	17-0	def. Wheaton (Ill.), 94-57; def. North Park, 67-53
#2	597	Amherst	17-0	def. Richard Stockton, 70-55; def. Trinity (Conn.), 75-55
#3	569	Washington U.	15-1	def. Case Western Reserve, 65-57; def. Carnegie Mellon, 64-57
#4	560	Kean	19-1	def. New Jersey, 79-43; def. Rutgers-Newark, 69-32
#5	512	Hope	16-1	def. #9 Calvin, 73-58; def. Adrian, 77-53
#6	479	Scranton	15-2	def. Baruch, 85-76; def. Catholic, 83-52; def. Goucher, 80-47
#7	440	George Fox	15-2	def. #26 Lewis and Clark, 40-24; def. Pacific Lutheran, 67-47
#8	389	Messiah	15-2	LOST at T#39 Lebanon Valley, 42-58; def. Arcadia, 69-38
#9	379	Calvin	16-2	LOST at #5 Hope, 58-73; def. Alma, 60-45; def. Olivet, 63-46
#10	372	Marymount	17-1	def. Hood, 70-44; def. Gallaudet, 68-45
#11	369	William Paterson	18-1	def. Montclair State, 67-60; def. Rutgers-Camden, 90-42
#12	339	Muhlenberg	12-2	def. DeSales, 74-68; def. Ursinus, 71-47
#13	325	Bowdoin	13-3	def. Bates, 63-42; LOST at #16 Tufts, 40-52
#14	292	Moravian	15-2	def. Goucher, 70-47; def. Catholic, 98-72
#15	239	Christopher Newport	17-0	def. Methodist, 86-60; def. Greensboro, 77-60
#16	221	Tufts	15-2	def. #25 Colby, 72-57; def. #13 Bowdoin, 52-40
#17	214	Thomas More	15-2	def. St. Vincent, 72-55; def. Grove City, 69-51
#18	202	Puget Sound	15-2	def. Pacific, 67-58; def. #26 Lewis and Clark, 74-49
#19	175	Carthage	14-3	def. North Central (Ill.), 72-49; def. Millikin, 62-41
#20	157	UW-Stevens Point	15-3	def. UW-Eau Claire, 69-56; def. UW-Oshkosh, 60-54
#21	144	UW-River Falls	14-3	LOST at UW-Stout, 67-80
#22	115	UW-Whitewater	13-4	def. UW-Platteville, 79-65
#23	95	Washington and Jefferson	15-2	def. Bethany, 47-37; def. Geneva, 88-74
#24	76	Gettysburg	14-2	LOST to McDaniel, 48-51; def. Swarthmore, 60-57 OT
#25	34	Colby	13-2	def. Wentworth, 64-37; LOST at #16 Tufts, 57-72; def. Bates, 77-71

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	32	Lewis and Clark	12-5	LOST to #7 George Fox, 24-40; LOST to #18 Puget Sound, 49-74
#27	28	Chicago	12-4	def. Carnegie Mellon, 76-51; def. Case Western Reserve, 72-67
T#28	27	DePauw	15-3	def. Southwestern, 67-38; def. Trinity (Texas), 83-56
T#28	27	Howard Payne	13-4	LOST to Hardin-Simmons, 69-75; def. McMurry, 71-62
T#28	27	Mount Union	15-2	def. Heidelberg, 48-46
#31	20	Louisiana College	14-2	def. Dillard, 67-53; def. East Texas Baptist, 64-51; def. LeTourneau, 76-50
#32	16	Mary Washington	13-3	def. Salisbury, 72-40; def. York (Pa.), 75-49
T#33	7	Cal Lutheran	12-4	def. Pomona-Pitzer, 87-49; def. Redlands, 64-60
T#33	7	Simpson	15-3	def. Luther, 70-53; def. Dubuque, 91-76; def. Central, 93-60
#35	6	Farmingdale State	17-0	def. New York City Tech, 92-48; def. SUNY-Purchase, 73-38; def. St. Joseph's (L.I.), 81-64; def. Sage, 95-55
T#36	3	Emmanuel	13-4	def. Rivier, 79-46; def. Norwich, 62-61
T#36	3	Rochester	13-3	LOST at Brandeis, 48-55; def. New York University, 63-59
#38	2	Western Connecticut	16-2	def. Rhode Island College, 83-79; def. Southern Maine, 67-50
T#39	1	Austin	14-3	def. Oglethorpe, 78-58; def. Sewanee, 76-72
T#39	1	Baldwin-Wallace	13-4	def. Wilmington, 59-58
T#39	1	Elmhurst	12-5	def. North Park, 77-73; def. Wheaton (Ill.), 81-73
T#39	1	Gustavus Adolphus	13-3	def. St. Benedict, 66-63; def. Carleton, 58-43; LOST at Concordia-Moorhead, 57-62
T#39	1	Lebanon Valley	16-1	def. Gwynedd-Mercy, 69-54; def. #8 Messiah, 58-42; def. Albright, 62-54
T#39	1	St. Norbert	11-3	def. Illinois College, 74-52; def. Knox, 65-51

[Ralph Turner]

Just Karma for doing it!

HSU matches very well with their twin posts against HPU.

HPU rebounded against McMurry on Saturday.  It was a 4 point game and McMurry ball with a minute left, but McMurry could not regain the lead.

I am cautious to recommend ASC teams, considering the goose egg that we laid in the 2009 post-season.

I think that the ASC problem is that we have about 5 teams in the ASC-West that are sharing the 1.5-2 teams worth a Elite 8 talent that we saw in HSU plus HPU or McMurry in the early part of the "aughts".  If Louisiana College can put something together, with their former Fresno State coach Janice Joseph-Richard, then they might be able to do something in the post-season.

[sunny]

Just Karma for doing it!

HSU matches very well with their twin posts against HPU.

HPU rebounded against McMurry on Saturday.  It was a 4 point game and McMurry ball with a minute left, but McMurry could not regain the lead.

I am cautious to recommend ASC teams, considering the goose egg that we laid in the 2009 post-season.

I think that the ASC problem is that we have about 5 teams in the ASC-West that are sharing the 1.5-2 teams worth a Elite 8 talent that we saw in HSU plus HPU or McMurry in the early part of the "aughts".  If Louisiana College can put something together, with their former Fresno State coach Janice Joseph-Richard, then they might be able to do something in the post-season.

Ralph,

Appreciate the insight.  As a voter, the ASC is driving me nuts as I have some confidence that several of the teams are comparable to much of the lower half of my top 25, but I can't seem to get one of them in the poll without putting in four or five.  We've hit a spot in the season, for me anyway, where there are more teams that I want to rank than there are spots available.  I think that's something fans forget sometimes - it's extremely hard to rank teams in such a large division as there is very little separation after the top handful. 

[Ralph Turner]

Just Karma for doing it!

HSU matches very well with their twin posts against HPU.

HPU rebounded against McMurry on Saturday.  It was a 4 point game and McMurry ball with a minute left, but McMurry could not regain the lead.

I am cautious to recommend ASC teams, considering the goose egg that we laid in the 2009 post-season.

I think that the ASC problem is that we have about 5 teams in the ASC-West that are sharing the 1.5-2 teams worth a Elite 8 talent that we saw in HSU plus HPU or McMurry in the early part of the "aughts".  If Louisiana College can put something together, with their former Fresno State coach Janice Joseph-Richard, then they might be able to do something in the post-season.

Ralph,

Appreciate the insight.  As a voter, the ASC is driving me nuts as I have some confidence that several of the teams are comparable to much of the lower half of my top 25, but I can't seem to get one of them in the poll without putting in four or five.  We've hit a spot in the season, for me anyway, where there are more teams that I want to rank than there are spots available.  I think that's something fans forget sometimes - it's extremely hard to rank teams in such a large division as there is very little separation after the top handful.  

I have a hard time putting any of the 8 really good ASC teams (McM, HSU, HPU, UMHB and Texas Lutheran from the West, UT-Dallas, Mississippi College and Louisiana College in the East) in the Top 25, but all 8 are in my Top 100, especially since HSU's twin towers seem to be figuring it out.