Top 25 discussion

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Concerning the lack of recognition for Greensboro, I'll make two observations:
1) I think the relative weakness of their schedule so far has hurt them
2) I have seen them play and they are for real.
I think they will have to continue to win and then either beat CNU or lose by a small margin to make it into the poll. I will also say that while I agree that CNU is a great team and deserves its ranking, if anyone in the USA South can beat them it will be Greensboro. I don't think CNU has an answer to Danielle Duncan, so the game will come down to GC's inside game vs. CNU's speed and sharpshooting. It should be a great game.

I will also offer up the observation that no team in the ODAC is even mentioned anywhere in the poll discussion, despite having not one but two teams that have beaten UMW, who IS still in the running for inclusion in the poll. So, lack of recognition is not limited to the USA South...

Brookland:


As a graduate of GC and having watched them play over the last 7 years (Although really 6, I was lucky to catch them this season against Guilford on Pride TV)  this team at least from what I saw from that game, is one of the most athletic, if not most athletic Pride team I have seen in those years.  Those years count for the 5 NCAA teams. Grant it is still early.

In defense of the weak schedule(stronger teams aren't really in the vicinity,) GC is coming off a huge financial crisis that nearly made my degree a collectors item. (Although personally I don't think enough money is pumped into athletics at GC,  I think athletes make up nearly 60% of the student body population. However, that is a completely different debate)

Honestly I was surprised to see the 2 votes.  If I am not mistaken there are still 32 teams who are unbeaten and only 12 have cracked the top 25.  That leaves 20 teams out there that think they are deserving of the top 25 nod.

Good debate for later.  Which teams still unbeaten that are not ranked will stay undefeated the longest?  How would you rank the "best of the rest" unbeaten teams?

[troutman]

hey darrell when will you update the top 25 statis again?

[troutman]

sorry darryl

[Darryl Nester]

hey darrell when will you update the top 25 statis again?

I typically do a midweek (Wednesday night/Thursday morning) report, and then a final report Sunday night before the next round of voting.

sorry darryl

No problem -- I'm used to it.

[Ralph Turner]

hey darrell when will you update the top 25 statis again?

I typically do a midweek (Wednesday night/Thursday morning) report, and then a final report Sunday night before the next round of voting.

sorry darryl

No problem -- I'm used to it.

You can get nightly Top 25 updates off the home page.

http://www.d3hoops.com/scoreboard/index

Scoreboard is found under the scores tab and you can select Top 25 for women or men.

[WLCALUM83]

One final for the "also receiving votes" department:

Wisconsin Lutheran 58, Lakeland 48, (next Wis. Lutheran opponent--at Rockford Saturday)

[Wydown Blvd.]

So last week, UWSP had lost to Milikin and they fell from 6th to 8th.  Seems reasonable.

This week, they went 2-0 and fell from 8th to 18th??  What am I missing?

You're missing that the UWSP v UWRF score was originally reported incorrectly and went out that way to the voters.  UWSP would be ranked a lot higher and UWRF would likely not be ranked at all had that mix-up not occurred.

Sounds just like the Boise State/BCS drama unfolding right now.... Glad we have transparency   

[troutman]

Thank you Darrryl, The thing i like about your post is you can figure out the mentions rankings outside of the top 25,also thanks for your help hope you have a great day

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared -- Midweek Report

As always, please let me know if anything is missing; I don't proofread my program's output too much, apart from looking up missing scores (which have been added, in italics).

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	622	Amherst	8-0	def. Emmanuel, 75-62; 12/09 vs. #28 Eastern Connecticut; 12/11 at Lehman
#2	592	Hope	7-0	def. Kalamazoo, 98-41
#3	570	Christopher Newport	5-0	12/12 vs. Meredith
#4	543	Kean	7-0	def. DeSales, 69-65
#5	494	Carthage	6-1	LOST at T#39 Calvin, 59-69
#6	469	Washington U.	5-1	12/10 vs. Central; 12/11 vs. Loras
#7	452	Mount Union	5-1	LOST to John Carroll, 82-84; 12/11 at Capital
#8	430	Babson	7-0	def. MIT, 70-40; 12/10 at WPI
#9	422	Williams	7-0	12/11 at Hamilton
#10	417	DePauw	5-2	LOST at Millikin, 59-65
#11	358	Rochester	7-1	def. Oswego State, 69-36; 12/11 vs. William Smith
#12	328	Thomas More	6-0	12/11 vs. Westminster (Pa.)
#13	291	Illinois Wesleyan	4-2	def. at St. Francis (Ill.), 76-59; 12/11 at #18 UW-Stevens Point
#14	271	William Paterson	7-0	def. New Paltz State, 71-59; 12/11 at Richard Stockton
#15	225	UW-Whitewater	5-2	LOST to #18 UW-Stevens Point, 69-83; 12/11 at UW-Superior
#16	216	Muhlenberg	7-0	def. Bryn Mawr, 87-43
#17	209	George Fox	6-2	IDLE
#18	198	UW-Stevens Point	7-1	def. #15 UW-Whitewater, 83-69; 12/11 vs. #13 Illinois Wesleyan
#19	174	St. Vincent	6-1	LOST at Juniata, 71-86; 12/11 vs. Chatham
#20	167	UW-La Crosse	8-1	def. UW-Stout, 75-54; 12/11 vs. UW-Platteville
#21	108	Lebanon Valley	7-1	12/09 at Marywood
#22	81	Medaille	4-1	12/09 at Pitt-Bradford; 12/11 at Franciscan
#23	54	Puget Sound	6-1	def. Evergreen St., 58-44
#24	53	Bowdoin	5-1	def. Husson, 89-55; 12/09 at Colby-Sawyer; 12/11 vs. Maine Maritime
#25	51	UW-River Falls	5-2	def. UW-Eau Claire, 65-64; 12/11 at UW-Oshkosh

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
T#26	46	Johns Hopkins	8-1	def. McDaniel, 67-47
T#26	46	Western Connecticut	5-1	12/09 at Trinity (Conn.); 12/11 at Mass-Dartmouth
#28	37	Eastern Connecticut	7-0	def. Westfield State, 74-49; 12/09 at #1 Amherst; 12/11 vs. Plymouth State
#29	35	Louisiana College	6-0	12/09 vs. Concordia (Texas)
#30	26	St. Norbert	5-1	def. Beloit, 74-53; 12/11 vs. Knox
#31	25	Gallaudet	7-0	def. Penn State-Abington, 81-43; 12/11 at Penn State-Harrisburg
T#32	22	Mississippi College	8-0	12/11 vs. Concordia (Texas)
T#32	22	St. Benedict	6-1	def. Hamline, 73-71; def. Bethel, 63-55; 12/11 vs. Gustavus Adolphus
#34	19	Wisconsin Lutheran	5-0	def. Lakeland, 58-48; 12/11 at Rockford
#35	13	Gettysburg	4-3	LOST at Franklin and Marshall, 53-66
#36	12	Colby	5-1	def. University of New England, 58-53; 12/11 vs. Maine-Presque Isle
#37	9	Mary Washington	4-2	12/11 vs. Marymount
#38	8	Baldwin-Wallace	5-1	12/11 at Wilmington
T#39	2	Calvin	6-2	def. #5 Carthage, 69-59; 12/11 at Kalamazoo
T#39	2	Concordia-Moorhead	5-0	def. Carleton, 81-37; 12/11 at St. Thomas; 12/12 at St. Mary's (Minn.)
T#39	2	Greensboro	5-0	12/11 vs. Mary Baldwin; 12/12 vs. Shenandoah
T#39	2	Lewis and Clark	4-3	IDLE
T#43	1	Messiah	4-3	12/11 at DeSales
T#43	1	Whitman	4-2	12/11 vs. Menlo; 12/12 vs. Col. of Idaho

[Dark Knight]

T#39

2

Calvin

6-2

def. #5 Carthage, 69-59

Calvin really controlled this game from about midway through the first half, leading #5 Carthage by 8-18 points throughout the second half. Carthage's game plan was to shut down Calvin's inside game, and they were quite effective, especially in the first half. They held Calvin's sophomore All-America center, Carissa Verkaik, scoreless through 18 minutes. However, they ceded the perimeter and Calvin hit 13 of 26 three-point attempts.  Verkaik ended up with 14 points, 14 rebounds, and 6 blocks.

Calvin out-rebounded Carthage 38-29 and blocked 13 shots (more than 20% of Carthage's 58 shots).

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Quick guess

68-55 #1 Amherst over Eastern CT tonight.

[BH2OFan]

I will also offer up the observation that no team in the ODAC is even mentioned anywhere in the poll discussion, despite having not one but two teams that have beaten UMW, who IS still in the running for inclusion in the poll. So, lack of recognition is not limited to the USA South...

As for Mary Wash and the ODAC, that is unfortunately part of the dirty nature of having a preseason poll. (I mean Messiah still got a vote this week!) IMHO, Mary Wash is still getting looks only because of where they were in the preseason. I have Bridgewater on my list of "other teams" sitting just outside the top 25; Mary Wash is nowhere to be seen for me right now. Of course that's not to say Mary Wash couldn't play their way back into my top 25 - I still think they will have a very good season, just wouldn't consider them poll-consideration worthy right now.

(Copy and paste from the ODAC board by me from a few nights ago)

Alright, time to start stumping for some top 25 votes for Bridgewater. Check my logic: Looked at three teams in the "others receiving votes" category- Mary Washington (9), Baldwin-Wallace (8), and Calvin (2). I chose these as the top three single digit vote getters. UMW is 4-2, average margin of victory 12 points, combined record of teams they beat 7-15. Baldwin-Wallace- 5-1, 13.5, 11-22. Calvin- 5-2, 23, 11-21. Bridgewater 5-0, 22.4, 9-23. Pretty similar. Now I'm sure there is a set of three other teams in this group that has beaten better opponents by more points that invalidates this argument, but I'm just sayin....
Frankly I don't think they will have an opportunity to be recognized until after the New Year based on the schedule (Averett next week, who is 4-0 with a win over EMU, then a holiday tournament) but first up in January is Roanoke followed by Hollins and W&L back to back. We'll know what the Eagles are all about after that stretch.

[sumfun]

Amherst 79-55.  Absolutely correct on one number.

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Amherst 79-55.  Absolutely correct on one number.

I will lie and just say I thought Eastern CT was at home tonight 

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Ok for those fans that think because their team is undefeated try this out.  I've counted 30 unbeaten teams 8 of which are ranked (does not include those that were undefeated at the time of the latest polls.  Carthage lost this week)  Even if every team that was undefeated was ranked 5 teams would still be left off.

Team	Record
Texas-Dallas	8-0
Mississippi College	8-0
Louisanna College	6-0
Muhlenberg	7-0
LaGrange	6-0
Hanover	5-0
Wartburg	7-0
Bridgewater St	7-0
Hope	7-0
Concordia-Morhead	4-0
Babson	7-0
William Patterson	7-0
Rutgers-Newark	6-0
Kean	7-0
Hiram	4-0
Denison	8-0
Gallaudet	7-0
Wisconsin Lutheran	5-0
Thomas More	6-0
Waynesburg	6-0
Cortland St	6-0
Oneonta St	8-0
Southwestern	6-0
Minnesota-Morris	1-0
Christopher Newport	5-0
Greensboro	5-0
Bridgewater	5-0
Ameherst	9-0
Williams	7-0
Middlebury	6-0

teams in bold are ranked.