Top 25 discussion

[David Collinge]

With the full understanding that I'm cursing the Big Red into a losing streak, I think it's time to pay at least a little attention to the start that Denison (10-0) has had to the season.  With two non-conference games left, in Florida against Susquehanna (5-5) and York PA (6-4), followed by 13 more games in the lightweight NCAC*, Denison has a not-insignificant chance to finish the regular season with 3 or fewer losses--and maybe even go unbeaten (knock on wood).  With a weak schedule, there's a limit to how highly regarded the Big Red can expect to be, but winning is winning--ask Boise State.  Plus DU demonstrates great basketball proficiency in categories that playing against the Little Sisters of the Poor have little effect on: they excel in shot selection (10th in D3 in FG%) and ball handling (leading D3 in A/TO by a wide margin [1.61. to Bates' 1.31], while 9th in assists and 2nd in turnovers).  I think they deserve a look by pollsters trying to fill out the bottom of their ballots.

*NCAC moves up a class or two when DePauw joins the loop next season. 

[Wydown Blvd.]

+k, solid campaigning and good info.

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

I think the CNU-Thomas More locations in the newest poll say a few things.

To me it seems the pollster's were more impressed with the Thomas More win over the CNU loss.  (Thomas More jumped 5 spots CNU dropped 4 spots)

They seem to have faith that CNU will continue to excel as they are still ranked higher than few 2 loss teams, despite their lack of SOS.   I guess also knowing that there is potential that they could still go undefeated in conference play in the "weak" USASouth (conference may be weak, but other than Shenandoah they will put in a lot of miles to travel to these games)

now there is even more pressure on CNU to go undefeated in conference play because one loss could mean the loss of home court advantage for the conference tournament. http://www.usasouth.net/general/2010-11/10newbballformat

[John Gleich]

Stevens Point leads St. Thomas 25-20 at halftime.

Come on over to the WIAC in game board and join the party!


Nothing to see here, just passing through...

[Ralph Turner]

Here are 2 posts that I made on the USA South board earlier in the week concerning the CNU-McMurry game.

I cut-and-paste them for the readers of this board.

CNU 67, McMurry 59.

The game was tied at 59 with 1:59 left in the game.  CNU pulled ahead 60-59 with 1:18 left.  McMurry committed 3 turnovers the rest of the game and committed three fouls.

The McMurry women look like a solid 3rd place team in the ASC-West. They need to gain confidence, and the younger players need to develop for me to rank them higher in the ASC-West.  Besides, the ASC-East [e.g., Louisiana College and Mississippi College] may be stronger than the ASC-West this year.

Respectfully, CNU may not be even a Top 20 team.

After closer review of the boxscore, I see that CNU only went 7 deep.  CNU only got 36 minutes off the bench, including a 21 and an 11 minute performance from the bench.

The strong teams that made runs from the ASC (the early decade HSU teams, the 2006 Hardin Simmons Final Four, 2008 Howard Payne Championship team, and the Tarra Richardson years at McMurry 2004-08) could go double digit minutes for 8-10 performers regularly.

As a critical opinion from tonight's game, I wonder if CNU has the depth to make a deep run in the NCAA's.  Those legs start to get tired by the 29th and 30th games of the year.

Another question is whether the USA South will provide enough in-season competition to toughen the team.  Tough divisional and conference races were key to the strong teams in the ASC.  In fact, the 2006 HSU team was a Pool C bid and was eliminated in the Conference Tourney Quarterfinals.

I hope to see CNU in the tourney.

Thanks to all.

[troutman]

WOW Gallaudet goes in tied for 32 with 26 votes.Beat their team by 15.Still 9-0 and drops 14 votes by the coaches and writers.I guess you need to win by 30 every game to get into the top 25.Not sure that was a fair drop.USA today still has them ranked 28th.I guess they will have to prove to the voters on the floor.

[Ralph Turner]

WOW Gallaudet goes in tied for 32 with 26 votes.Beat their team by 15.Still 9-0 and drops 14 votes by the coaches and writers.I guess you need to win by 30 every game to get into the top 25.Not sure that was a fair drop.USA today still has them ranked 28th.I guess they will have to prove to the voters on the floor.

I have followed the NEAC while UDallas was an affiliate member.  Of the 40-odd Women's Conferences, I would rank the NEAC in the bottom quartile in overall strength.

IMHO, I see almost no reason why Gallaudet should not finish undefeated, and still not have proven anything.  Now an undefeated Gallaudet in the Capital AC would be another thing.

Best of wishes that we see Gallaudet in the NCAA's.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared

Just a few results heading into the holiday weekend.  I believe that there is no poll next week (is that correct?), so this lists upcoming games through January 2.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	622	Amherst	11-0	12/28 vs. Kenyon; 12/29 at #29 St. Norbert
#2	598	Hope	9-0	12/29 vs. #4 Washington U.
#3	552	Kean	9-1	def. T#38 Scranton, 56-39; 12/28 at Gwynedd-Mercy; 12/31 vs. #15 Illinois Wesleyan; 01/02 vs. Regis (Mass.)
#4	531	Washington U.	8-1	12/29 at #2 Hope; 12/30 at TBA
#5	466	Thomas More	8-0	def. Ithaca, 74-73 OT; 12/30 vs. Centre
#6	465	Williams	8-0	12/28 at Drew; 12/29 at TBA; 01/02 vs. Rivier
#7	452	Christopher Newport	7-1	def. McMurry, 67-59; 12/30 at Virginia Wesleyan; 01/02 vs. Mary Washington
#8	440	Babson	10-0	def. Oneonta State, 61-50
#9	421	Rochester	8-1	IDLE
#10	352	UW-Stevens Point	8-2	12/29 at Pacific Lutheran; 12/30 at #18 Puget Sound
#11	324	DePauw	7-2	def. Alma, 84-58; 12/28 vs. Rose-Hulman; 12/29 vs. TBA; 01/02 vs. Centre
#12	307	Mount Union	8-1	def. Muskingum, 71-53; 12/29 at Case Western Reserve; 12/30 at Juniata
#13	305	Muhlenberg	8-0	IDLE
#14	289	George Fox	6-2	12/27 at FDU-Florham; 12/28 at St. Mary's (Ind.); 12/30 at TBA
#15	284	Illinois Wesleyan	6-3	12/29 at Baruch; 12/31 at #3 Kean
#16	194	Carthage	7-2	12/28 at Austin; 12/29 at Texas-Dallas
#17	187	UW-Whitewater	7-2	12/28 vs. Pt. Loma Nazarene; 12/29 vs. Bethany Lutheran; 12/30 vs. TBA
#18	167	Puget Sound	9-1	def. Menlo, 57-54; def. UC Santa Cruz, 54-43; 12/30 vs. #10 UW-Stevens Point
#19	161	Lebanon Valley	8-1	12/29 vs. Richard Stockton; 12/30 vs. Ramapo
#20	147	Medaille	7-1	12/30 vs. William Smith; 01/02 vs. St. John Fisher
#21	142	Bowdoin	7-1	01/02 vs. Wellesley
#22	109	Louisiana College	9-0	12/30 vs. Loyola (La.)
#23	84	UW-La Crosse	9-2	12/30 vs. Chapman; 12/31 at Occidental
#24	75	Calvin	8-2	12/30 vs. Wesleyan; 12/31 at Cal Lutheran
#25	67	Johns Hopkins	8-1	IDLE

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	61	Western Connecticut	7-1	12/28 at York (Pa.); 12/30 vs. Fitchburg State
#27	56	Mississippi College	10-0	12/30 vs. Hendrix
#28	51	William Paterson	7-2	12/29 at Hunter; 01/02 vs. Frostburg State
#29	40	St. Norbert	6-1	12/28 vs. #32 Bates; 12/29 vs. #1 Amherst
#30	33	Eastern Connecticut	8-1	IDLE
#31	23	St. Vincent	9-1	def. Randolph-Macon, 74-52
#32	16	Bates	7-1	12/28 at #29 St. Norbert; 12/29 at Kenyon
#33	13	St. Benedict	6-1	IDLE
T#34	12	Gallaudet	9-0	IDLE
T#34	12	Greensboro	8-0	01/02 at Mary Baldwin
#36	11	Wisconsin Lutheran	8-1	def. Marian, 82-47
#37	10	Baldwin-Wallace	8-3	LOST to Otterbein, 63-72
T#38	9	Colby	6-1	01/01 at Salem State; 01/02 vs. Castleton State
T#38	9	Scranton	6-3	LOST at #3 Kean, 39-56; 01/02 vs. St. Mary's (Md.)
T#40	7	Chicago	7-3	12/30 vs. UW-Platteville
T#40	7	Concordia-Moorhead	5-0	12/29 vs. #42 UW-River Falls
#42	4	UW-River Falls	7-2	12/29 at T#40 Concordia-Moorhead; 12/30 at St. Scholastica
T#43	3	Millikin	8-3	def. Cornell, 66-46
T#43	3	Whitman	6-2	12/29 at TBD; 12/30 at Carroll (Mont.)
#45	2	Tufts	6-1	01/02 at Keene State
T#46	1	Bridgewater (Va.)	8-0	IDLE
T#46	1	Coe	7-2	12/29 vs. Howard Payne; 12/30 at Concordia (Texas)

Other teams to watch (as suggested by posters on this board)

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
---	---	Denison	10-0	12/28 vs. Susquehanna; 12/29 at York (Pa.)

[Pat Coleman]

WOW Gallaudet goes in tied for 32 with 26 votes.Beat their team by 15.Still 9-0 and drops 14 votes by the coaches and writers.I guess you need to win by 30 every game to get into the top 25.Not sure that was a fair drop.USA today still has them ranked 28th.I guess they will have to prove to the voters on the floor.

Here's what the record shows about Gallaudet, what voters see:

Gallaudet (9-0) Last week: # votes:  ()
Nov. 22     6:00 PM     Christendom (0-1 v D3)     W, 101-41
Nov. 27     6:00 PM     Penn St.-York (0-4 v D3)     W, 83-27
Nov. 28     4:00 PM     Lebanon Valley (8-1)     W, 80-69 OT
Dec. 1     6:00 PM     Wilson (2-8) * •     W, 71-38
Dec. 4     12:00 PM     at Wells (1-8) * •     W, 81-62
Dec. 5     1:00 PM     at Keuka (8-1) * •     W, 60-57
Dec. 8     5:00 PM     Penn State-Abington (1-7) *     W, 81-43
Dec. 11     1:00 PM     at Penn State-Harrisburg (4-4) * •     W, 76-66
Dec. 19     3:00 PM     at Penn State-Berks (3-6) * •     W, 67-51
Losses:

That is an overtime win at home against the only team on the schedule that is not awful. Yes, Keuka is 8-1, but here is how Keuka got there:

Keuka (8-1-0) Last week: # votes: 0 ()    
Nov. 15    6:00 PM    SUNY Canton (1-5-0 v D3) •    W, 78-59
Nov. 20    1:00 PM    at Wilson (2-8-0) * •    W, 87-35
Nov. 21    1:00 PM    at St. Elizabeth (3-5-0) * •    W, 57-52
Nov. 23    6:00 PM    at Cazenovia (3-4-0) * •    W, 72-34
Dec. 1    5:00 PM    at Morrisville State (2-6-0) * •    W, 65-52
Dec. 4    1:00 PM    Penn State-Harrisburg (4-4-0) * •    W, 64-51
Dec. 5    1:00 PM    Gallaudet (9-0-0) * •    L, 60-57
Dec. 7    6:00 PM    Wells (1-8-0) * •    W, 55-29
Dec. 9    7:00 PM    William Smith (4-5-0) •    W, 72-67

Remember what the NEAC's champ did last year in the NCAA Tournament. Now, Gallaudet is better than that, but still, the resume of the NEAC is non-existent.

[BH2OFan]

Here's what the record shows about Gallaudet, what voters see:

So someone help a rookie understand a little better what voters consider. Someone a couple of pages back referenced Massey Ratings, however after comparing them against the poll there is little correlation in most cases (i.e. Galludet 34th in the poll, 142nd in Massey). What else factors in? Is it like the BCS, part math and part popularity contest?

[troutman]

Thank you Mr.Turner,I think this is the best chance Gallaudet has had in the history of the school to go to the NCAA this year.

[troutman]

Thanks Pat for the update,I'm actually ecstatic that out of 441 teams Gallaudet is even mentioned in the top 32.It must be very time consuming and very tiring to go over that many teams and pick 35 teams worthy of a mention.Gallaudet is very great full.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Thank you Mr.Turner,I think this is the best chance Gallaudet has had in the history of the school to go to the NCAA this year.

And I am certainly rooting for them to go.  My (blind) bowling teammate is the father of a (deaf) soccer player at Gallaudet - since his wife (her mother) is confined to a wheelchair, they are a VERY interesting family.

[Pat Coleman]

Thank you Mr.Turner,I think this is the best chance Gallaudet has had in the history of the school to go to the NCAA this year.

I don't think that's true at all. I'm pretty sure that the 1999 team had the best chance to go to the NCAA tournament, seeing as they made it.

[Ralph Turner]

Thank you Mr.Turner,I think this is the best chance Gallaudet has had in the history of the school to go to the NCAA this year.

Some time when you can get to the Gallaudet archives, look up the career of Ronda Jo Miller from back in the late 1990's.   She is all over the NCAA record books.