Top 25 discussion

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

 #16 Greensboro 72-54 over Meredith.  Not a great night, but also without the leading scorer for Greensboro.  Not sure why Duncan didn't play.  We will take the win though..

[BlueZoneBruin]

I know that the NCAA has made some mistakes in the past when it comes to getting records correct for the regional rankings. So, is anyone at D3Hoops planning to review the first rankings for errors? And I don't think that non-d3 teams count in regional records. Is that correct? If so, here's what I see for the West teams...

Coe 11-1 (NCAA says 16-2)
Lewis & Clark 12-2 (NCAA says 11-2)
Simpson 14-0 (NCAA says 15-2)
St. Benedict 12-3 (NCAA says 14-3)
Wartburg 12-3 (NCAA says 16-3)
Puget Sound 11-2 (NCAA says 12-3)

Other West teams that could be considered...
Chapman 9-3
George Fox 9-2
Concordia-Moorhead 15-4

Thoughts?

[BlueZoneBruin]

Okay, I realize that I only took into consideration 2 of the 3 criteria for a game to be considered regional. Still, I'm curious if there are errors...

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared--Midweek Report

Ordinarily when a score is missing, my program prompts me to track it down.  I disabled that part of my program this time around; I assumed that missing scores were actually postponed games that had not yet been updated in the d3sports database.  Let me know if you see a missing score from a game that was actually played.


Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	602	Thomas More	20-0	def. Geneva, 70-41; 02/05 at Washington and Jefferson
#2	589	Amherst	19-1	02/04 vs. #34 Tufts; 02/05 vs. Bates
#3	574	Kean	17-3	LOST at New Jersey, 65-68; 02/05 vs. Rowan
#4	559	Hope	18-1	02/03 at St. Mary's (Ind.); 02/05 vs. #20 Calvin
#5	505	Babson	19-0	02/03 at MIT; 02/05 vs. WPI
#6	495	UW-Stevens Point	19-2	def. UW-Stout, 86-50
#7	466	Washington U.	15-3	02/04 at Carnegie Mellon; 02/06 at Case Western Reserve
#8	438	Williams	19-1	02/04 at #40 Bowdoin; 02/05 at Colby
#9	385	Illinois Wesleyan	15-4	02/04 at Elmhurst
#10	375	Christopher Newport	18-2	02/05 vs. North Carolina Wesleyan
#11	333	UW-Whitewater	16-3	02/03 vs. UW-La Crosse; 02/05 at UW-River Falls
#12	324	Chicago	15-3	02/04 at Case Western Reserve; 02/06 at Carnegie Mellon
#13	322	Lebanon Valley	19-1	def. Lycoming, 65-39; 02/05 vs. Widener
#14	291	Denison	19-0	02/03 vs. Ohio Wesleyan; 02/05 at Wooster
#15	288	DePauw	17-3	02/05 at Centre
#16	275	Greensboro	19-0	def. Averett, 64-47; def. Meredith, 72-54; 02/05 vs. Ferrum; 02/06 vs. Piedmont
#17	190	Louisiana College	17-1	02/03 vs. Texas-Tyler; 02/05 vs. LeTourneau
#18	158	Rochester	14-4	02/04 vs. New York University; 02/06 vs. Brandeis
#19	148	St. Vincent	18-2	def. Washington and Jefferson, 52-45; 02/05 at Geneva
#20	128	Calvin	17-3	02/03 vs. Adrian; 02/05 at #4 Hope
#21	124	St. Norbert	16-2	02/04 at Monmouth; 02/05 at Grinnell
#22	103	Mount Union	16-3	02/03 at Muskingum; 02/05 vs. Wilmington
#23	87	Medaille	17-2	02/02 at Hilbert; 02/05 at Mount Aloysius
#24	81	William Paterson	18-3	def. Montclair State, 68-57; 02/05 at Rutgers-Newark
#25	63	Coe	18-2	def. Cornell, 67-38; 02/05 at #33 Simpson

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	55	Gallaudet	18-0	02/02 at St. Elizabeth; 02/05 at Wilson
#27	41	St. Benedict	15-3	LOST to Bethel, 48-52; 02/02 at Carleton; 02/05 at Augsburg
#28	33	Mount St. Mary	17-2	02/05 at Farmingdale State
#29	16	Johns Hopkins	16-4	LOST to Gettysburg, 57-61; 02/05 vs. Swarthmore
#30	15	Carthage	14-5	02/03 vs. Wheaton (Ill.); 02/05 at Augustana
#31	14	Lewis and Clark	16-4	def. Linfield, 70-62; 02/05 at George Fox
#32	13	Baldwin-Wallace	15-4	02/03 at Otterbein; 02/05 at Muskingum
#33	11	Simpson	17-3	02/05 vs. #25 Coe
#34	6	Tufts	15-3	02/04 at #2 Amherst; 02/05 at Trinity (Conn.)
#35	5	Millikin	14-5	02/01 vs. Elmhurst; 02/05 vs. North Central (Ill.)
T#36	4	Puget Sound	15-4	02/04 vs. Whitworth; 02/05 vs. Whitman
T#36	4	Western Connecticut	16-3	02/05 at Plymouth State
T#38	2	Chapman	18-4	def. La Verne, 55-41
T#38	2	Hanover	18-1	def. Mount St. Joseph, 98-71; 02/05 at Bluffton
#40	1	Bowdoin	16-4	def. Maine-Farmington, 100-28; 02/04 vs. #8 Williams; 02/05 vs. Middlebury

[ronk]

Gordon Mann,
  Nice interview with the Kean coach after the game; good questions and I appreciate her candor in answering them.

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

#13/#16 Greensboro wins over 3rd place in USASouth team Ferrum 76-63 (now 13-7 overall.)  Greensboro struggled first 4-5 min of the game, but didn't lose the lead once they took after that span.  Wilborn for Greensboro reaches the 1000+ pt 500+ rebound 300+ steal mark in that game, only player to reach those numbers in Pride history.  I think it is 21 more assists to reach 300 too.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared--Complete

In case you want to get caught up on what happened in the world of D3 Hoops before heading off to that Ronald Reagan Centennial party ...

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	602	Thomas More	21-0	def. Geneva, 70-41; def. Washington and Jefferson, 61-48
#2	589	Amherst	21-1	def. #34 Tufts, 73-35; def. Bates, 74-62
#3	574	Kean	18-3	LOST at New Jersey, 65-68; def. Rowan, 81-66
#4	559	Hope	20-1	def. St. Mary's (Ind.), 79-59; def. #20 Calvin, 70-48
#5	505	Babson	21-0	def. MIT, 72-38; def. WPI, 69-37
#6	495	UW-Stevens Point	19-2	def. UW-Stout, 86-50
#7	466	Washington U.	17-3	def. Carnegie Mellon, 73-37; def. Case Western Reserve, 69-47
#8	438	Williams	19-3	LOST at #40 Bowdoin, 53-62; LOST at Colby, 71-85
#9	385	Illinois Wesleyan	16-4	def. Elmhurst, 74-61
#10	375	Christopher Newport	19-2	def. North Carolina Wesleyan, 83-61
#11	333	UW-Whitewater	16-5	LOST to UW-La Crosse, 66-73; LOST at UW-River Falls, 69-73
#12	324	Chicago	17-3	def. Case Western Reserve, 65-55; def. Carnegie Mellon, 76-43
#13	322	Lebanon Valley	20-1	def. Lycoming, 65-39; def. Widener, 72-63
#14	291	Denison	21-0	def. Ohio Wesleyan, 75-45; def. Wooster, 61-46
#15	288	DePauw	18-3	def. Centre, 67-54
#16	275	Greensboro	21-0	def. Averett, 64-47; def. Meredith, 72-54; def. Ferrum, 76-63; def. Piedmont, 67-49
#17	190	Louisiana College	18-1	def. LeTourneau, 75-44
#18	158	Rochester	16-4	def. New York University, 64-46; def. Brandeis, 80-51
#19	148	St. Vincent	19-2	def. Washington and Jefferson, 52-45; def. Geneva, 80-67
#20	128	Calvin	18-4	def. Adrian, 57-32; LOST at #4 Hope, 48-70
#21	124	St. Norbert	18-2	def. Monmouth, 61-56; def. Grinnell, 57-46
#22	103	Mount Union	18-3	def. Muskingum, 87-71; def. Wilmington, 80-65
#23	87	Medaille	19-2	def. Hilbert, 70-43; def. Mount Aloysius, 85-56
#24	81	William Paterson	19-3	def. Montclair State, 68-57; def. Rutgers-Newark, 66-41
#25	63	Coe	19-2	def. Cornell, 67-38; def. #33 Simpson, 81-79

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	55	Gallaudet	19-0	def. Wilson, 71-57
#27	41	St. Benedict	17-3	LOST to Bethel, 48-52; def. Carleton, 64-48; def. Augsburg, 75-57
#28	33	Mount St. Mary	18-2	def. Farmingdale State, 49-45
#29	16	Johns Hopkins	17-4	LOST to Gettysburg, 57-61; def. Swarthmore, 62-50
#30	15	Carthage	15-6	LOST to Wheaton (Ill.), 50-68; def. Augustana, 85-60
#31	14	Lewis and Clark	16-5	def. Linfield, 70-62; LOST at George Fox, 58-77
#32	13	Baldwin-Wallace	16-5	LOST at Otterbein, 67-74; def. Muskingum, 75-50
#33	11	Simpson	17-4	LOST to #25 Coe, 79-81
#34	6	Tufts	15-5	LOST at #2 Amherst, 35-73; LOST at Trinity (Conn.), 48-63
#35	5	Millikin	15-5	def. North Central (Ill.), 59-58
T#36	4	Puget Sound	17-4	def. Whitworth, 69-60; def. Whitman, 81-78
T#36	4	Western Connecticut	17-3	def. Plymouth State, 71-51
T#38	2	Chapman	18-4	def. La Verne, 55-41
T#38	2	Hanover	19-1	def. Mount St. Joseph, 98-71; def. Bluffton, 78-71
#40	1	Bowdoin	18-4	def. Maine-Farmington, 100-28; def. #8 Williams, 62-53; def. Middlebury, 93-60

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Without seeing the OPW% and the OOPW% personally I think Greensboro should be ahead of Denison in the polls. 

This week alone Greensboro played teams with records of 13-7, 15-5, 5-14, 11-10.   Denison on the other hand played teams 10-11 and 2-18. 

Greensboro has beaten a ranked team and Denison has not (plus Greensboro has another game against a ranked team scheduled for the end of the year.  This is how I think the Polls should be in the range of 10-16 start of next week. (Teams above them moving up)

#10 Chicago
#11 LVC
#12 DePauw
#13 Greensboro
#14 Denison
#15 Louisiana College
#16 Rochester

[gadk]

#11   333   UW-Whitewater   16-5   LOST to UW-La Crosse, 66-73; LOST at UW-River Falls, 69-73

can whitewater stay in the top 25? no other team in the top 25 has 5 losses.

[gadk]

#29   16   Johns Hopkins   17-4   LOST to Gettysburg, 57-61; def. Swarthmore, 62-50
#30   15   Carthage   15-6   LOST to Wheaton (Ill.), 50-68; def. Augustana, 85-60
#31   14   Lewis and Clark   16-5   def. Linfield, 70-62; LOST at George Fox, 58-77
#32   13   Baldwin-Wallace   16-5   LOST at Otterbein, 67-74; def. Muskingum, 75-50
#33   11   Simpson   17-4   LOST to #25 Coe, 79-81
#34   6   Tufts   15-5   LOST at #2 Amherst, 35-73; LOST at Trinity (Conn.), 48-63

A lot of losses for the teams #29-#34 where will those votes go?

[Mr. Ypsi]

#11   333   UW-Whitewater   16-5   LOST to UW-La Crosse, 66-73; LOST at UW-River Falls, 69-73

can whitewater stay in the top 25? no other team in the top 25 has 5 losses.

I'd say probably.  You have to take into account the quality of competition.  IWU has 4 losses, but will probably move UP from 9 to 8, and UWW beat IWU (while IWU beat #3 Kean, #6 UWSP, #7 WashU, and #12 Chicago, among others).

[ichouse]

#11   333   UW-Whitewater   16-5   LOST to UW-La Crosse, 66-73; LOST at UW-River Falls, 69-73

can whitewater stay in the top 25? no other team in the top 25 has 5 losses.

I'd say probably.  You have to take into account the quality of competition.  IWU has 4 losses, but will probably move UP from 9 to 8, and UWW beat IWU (while IWU beat #3 Kean, #6 UWSP, #7 WashU, and #12 Chicago, among others).

your argument is good for IWU, but not so much for Whitewater. Sure whitewater beat IWU way back on 11/23/10, things change Whitewater has One win in the last 4 games. That is more telling of how they are playing now.

[Pat Coleman]

Beating IWU isn't going to help UWW very much at this point.

[BlueZoneBruin]

#11   333   UW-Whitewater   16-5   LOST to UW-La Crosse, 66-73; LOST at UW-River Falls, 69-73

can whitewater stay in the top 25? no other team in the top 25 has 5 losses.

It's hard to know...If it was Ill Wesleyan or Wash U, they'd still be in the Top 10. Yes, they've both lost to ranked teams, but the voters seem to have a pretty unconditional love for those two squads.

[sunny]

#11   333   UW-Whitewater   16-5   LOST to UW-La Crosse, 66-73; LOST at UW-River Falls, 69-73

can whitewater stay in the top 25? no other team in the top 25 has 5 losses.

It's hard to know...If it was Ill Wesleyan or Wash U, they'd still be in the Top 10. Yes, they've both lost to ranked teams, but the voters seem to have a pretty unconditional love for those two squads.

Please look at IWU's non-conference schedule and the list of teams they've beaten and also realize that they have three other teams in their conference who would have a good shot at being in a "top 60" before insinuating that they are getting special treatment. I'm a voter with no connection to IWU, but their non-conference schedule was absolutely fierce.  Any team in Division III would have had a challenging time matching their performance with that non-conference schedule. The top four teams in the CCIW are 32-11 in non-conference play this year.

(ETA: I still like UW-W's resume for the entire season over a LOT of other teams - in addition to IWU they have non-conference wins over Calvin and George Fox.) Let's remember that of those three losses in their last four games, one was to UWSP, and the other two were to teams that UW-W had beaten earlier in the season by wider margins than their losses ended up being by.)