Top 25 discussion

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Anybody interested in doing a fan poll?

I would like to get at least 10 people. Fans opinions always are fun.  Of course, it will always provide some talking points for the boards. Pat Coleman can then ask advertisers to pay more for space.   I probably watch more women's games then Pat Coleman (only kidding of course. Or am I...bahaha)

I don't have any d3 games to go to down here in FL.  I think the excitement level in d3 games is probably the best comparing all levels.

[7express]

I'll get in on this...granted I don't follow many teams outside of the Northeast, Atlantic and East regions though...

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Great to see Greensboro (USAC) in the top 25.  Interesting that Christopher Newport was RV and no mention of Ferrum given we were picked 3rd in the conference poll (Ferrum was 2nd, Greensboro 1st).  Maybe the national voters remember the tournament run and forgot we lost a coach and three starters?

Looking forward to a great season though.

I think the 90 points for CNU was well deserved after that impressive win over R-MC.  I bet both teams were probably shocked from the outcome on this. (CNU has that confidence, but when you lose an ALL-WORLD player in Schweers, I don't think anyone would expect a win of that margin.)  RM-C returned quite a few starters and they were pricked to win the ODAC.


I would expect CNU to probably be ranked when the new poll comes out in the end of the both. (If they lose, then I wouldn't expect it.)

[Darryl Nester]

"How They Fared" coming tonight after the final games are complete, barring some unexpected complication with my computer program.  (It ran successfully -- after some tweaking -- with the current state of the scoreboard, and I assume will still be OK when the scores are all finalized.)

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Because of the large number of teams, I'll split this post into two pieces.  One game (#42 Coe @ UW-Platteville) is getting a late start; I'll edit it in later.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	593	Amherst	3-0	def. Norwich, 90-38; def. St. Lawrence, 93-63; def. Mount Holyoke, 67-41
#2	590	Chicago	4-0	def. Fontbonne, 93-57; def. Macalester, 81-59; def. Lake Forest, 61-59; def. #49 Carthage, 66-45
#3	541	George Fox	4-0	def. Corban, 79-57; def. Northwest (Wash), 81-62; def. Chapman, 74-57; def. Cal Lutheran, 63-51
#4	494	William Paterson	5-0	def. Manhattanville, 103-99; def. Moravian, 71-65; def. Heidelberg, 99-51; def. New Paltz State, 74-63; def. Baruch, 91-82
#5	484	Babson	3-1	def. Salem State, 94-45; def. Brandeis, 64-35; def. Tufts, 73-64; LOST at #32 Williams, 39-61
#6	482	Calvin	5-0	def. Manchester, 48-43; def. Cincinnati-Clermont, 90-38; def. Anderson, 70-55; def. Iowa Wesleyan, 77-65; def. Siena Heights, 75-53
#7	423	Washington U.	4-1	def. Fontbonne, 65-60; def. Northland, 65-45; def. Lake Forest, 66-51; def. Hendrix, 62-52; LOST to #10 DePauw, 57-69
#8	371	Rochester	4-0	def. Oswego State, 73-39; def. New Paltz State, 68-43; def. Baruch, 77-63; def. Elmira, 80-36
#9	323	Lebanon Valley	4-0	def. Marywood, 60-45; def. Gallaudet, 59-35; def. Penn State-Harrisburg, 55-42; def. Susquehanna, 72-45
#10	308	DePauw	3-1	def. Albion, 59-48; LOST at Franklin, 47-52; def. #17 Illinois Wesleyan, 67-54; def. #7 Washington U., 69-57
#11	306	UW-Stevens Point	4-0	def. #50 St. Thomas, 70-53; def. Finlandia, 72-39; def. Alverno, 70-43; def. Millikin, 66-45
#12	288	Denison	4-2	def. Bethany, 69-61; LOST to #30 Baldwin-Wallace, 53-54; def. St. Mary's (Ind.), 81-74; def. Thiel, 65-58; def. Carnegie Mellon, 63-58; LOST at Case Western Reserve, 53-56
#13	274	Mount Union	5-0	def. Westminster (Pa.), 68-53; def. Case Western Reserve, 55-49; def. Carnegie Mellon, 74-54; def. Allegheny, 92-44; def. Manchester, 76-53
#14	251	Bowdoin	3-0	def. Plymouth State, 80-27; def. RPI, 65-61; def. University of New England, 69-53
#15	238	Greensboro	3-0	def. Guilford, 59-49; def. Cabrini, 74-48; def. St. Mary's (Md.), 71-58
#16	203	Colby	3-0	def. Clark, 79-57; def. Brandeis, 60-44; def. Maine-Farmington, 80-37
#17	185	Illinois Wesleyan	3-2	def. #42 Coe, 77-66; def. T#44 UW-Eau Claire, 78-69; LOST at #21 UW-Whitewater, 72-80; LOST at #10 DePauw, 54-67; def. Hendrix, 84-43
#18	178	Thomas More	2-1	def. #46 Centre, 80-79; LOST to Capital, 59-65; def. Shawnee St., 64-62
#19	167	Hope	4-1	def. Rochester (Mich.), 84-36; LOST at Capital, 53-62; def. Mount St. Joseph, 81-66; def. Defiance, 68-43; def. Aquinas, 66-65
#20	164	Muhlenberg	4-0	def. Moravian, 87-78; def. Shenandoah, 94-60; def. New Jersey, 74-63; def. Gettysburg, 63-48
#21	121	UW-Whitewater	5-1	def. Carroll, 82-60; def. Whitworth, 80-57; LOST at Millikin, 73-78; def. #17 Illinois Wesleyan, 80-72; def. Dubuque, 66-52; def. St. Scholastica, 76-46
#22	109	Messiah	3-1	def. Dickinson, 58-47; def. John Jay, 77-38; LOST to #24 St. Vincent, 62-67; def. Penn State-Harrisburg, 70-45
#23	106	Howard Payne	2-1	def. Austin, 68-61; def. Ferrum, 83-78; LOST to Texas-Dallas, 70-74
#24	105	St. Vincent	3-1	def. Farmingdale State, 63-47; def. #22 Messiah, 67-62; def. Pitt-Bradford, 80-32; LOST to #31 Juniata, 63-76
#25	101	Lewis and Clark	4-0	def. Evergreen St., 74-41; def. Oneonta State, 59-58; def. #43 Kean, 81-71; def. Concordia (Ore.), 66-50

[Darryl Nester]

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	94	Wisconsin Lutheran	2-1	def. Bethel, 57-43; LOST to #49 Carthage, 57-63; def. Marian, 78-72
#27	90	Christopher Newport	4-0	def. #33 Randolph-Macon, 74-48; def. Roanoke, 72-58; def. Salisbury, 66-55; def. Virginia Wesleyan, 72-57
#28	86	UW-River Falls	4-0	def. Gustavus Adolphus, 50-43; def. T#38 Simpson, 79-73; def. Luther, 64-53; def. Concordia (Wis.), 61-60
#29	67	Wheaton (Ill.)	2-2	LOST at St. Mary's (Ind.), 63-66; def. Illinois College, 66-38; LOST to UW-La Crosse, 43-53; def. Aurora, 84-51
#30	60	Baldwin-Wallace	3-1	def. Wittenberg, 56-53; def. #12 Denison, 54-53; LOST at Manchester, 45-59; def. Case Western Reserve, 69-64
#31	46	Juniata	6-0	def. Penn State-Harrisburg, 82-51; def. Widener, 68-63; def. #41 DeSales, 59-43; def. Mount Aloysius, 74-52; def. #24 St. Vincent, 76-63; def. Frostburg State, 77-40
#32	37	Williams	4-0	def. Whitman, 56-53; def. #5 Babson, 61-39; def. Springfield, 62-42; def. Massachusetts College, 87-65
#33	33	Randolph-Macon	1-3	def. Marymount, 67-51; LOST to #27 Christopher Newport, 48-74; LOST to #36 Mary Washington, 40-54; LOST to Eastern Mennonite, 78-85
#34	26	Rhode Island College	2-1	LOST at University of New England, 62-63; def. Bridgewater State, 84-68; def. WPI, 67-49
#35	21	Louisiana College	3-0	def. LaGrange, 94-87; def. Millsaps, 87-48; def. Schreiner, 82-59
#36	19	Mary Washington	4-0	def. Washington and Lee, 64-48; def. Roanoke, 75-41; def. #33 Randolph-Macon, 54-40; def. Shenandoah, 60-48
#37	18	Johns Hopkins	3-1	def. York (Pa.), 67-62; def. Hood, 71-35; def. Bridgewater (Va.), 47-42; LOST to Haverford, 42-54
T#38	17	Mount St. Mary	3-1	def. New Paltz State, 62-47; LOST at St. Lawrence, 69-76; def. Norwich, 66-52; def. Montclair State, 66-57
T#38	17	Ohio Northern	5-1	def. Albion, 62-53; def. Transylvania, 62-41; LOST to Hanover, 62-76; def. Kenyon, 60-55; def. St. Mary's (Ind.), 68-64; def. Ohio Wesleyan, 64-42
T#38	17	Simpson	4-1	def. AIB College of Business, 86-83; LOST at #28 UW-River Falls, 73-79; def. Bethany Lutheran, 94-52; def. Carleton, 85-70; def. Grand View, 83-69
#41	16	DeSales	1-2	def. Wesley, 89-39; LOST to #31 Juniata, 43-59; LOST to Moravian, 50-66
#42	13	Coe	2-2	LOST at Elmhurst, 70-78; LOST to #17 Illinois Wesleyan, 66-77; def. Ripon, 49-40; def. UW-Platteville, 77-69
#43	9	Kean	4-1	def. Gwynedd-Mercy, 96-74; def. Salisbury, 71-50; LOST to #25 Lewis and Clark, 71-81; def. FDU-Florham, 83-67; def. Stevens, 66-58
T#44	8	Medaille	1-2	def. St. John Fisher, 69-40; LOST to Ithaca, 58-70; LOST to Cortland State, 76-89
T#44	8	UW-Eau Claire	4-2	def. St. Scholastica, 68-58; def. Ripon, 64-62; LOST to #17 Illinois Wesleyan, 69-78; def. #48 St. Norbert, 49-44; LOST at Minn. St. Mankato, 50-59; def. Cornell, 63-35
#46	7	Centre	3-1	def. #47 Maryville (Tenn.), 80-60; def. Berry, 87-74; def. Rose-Hulman, 84-44; LOST to #18 Thomas More, 79-80
#47	5	Maryville (Tenn.)	2-2	LOST at #46 Centre, 60-80; def. Oglethorpe, 61-50; LOST at Shawnee St., 54-60; def. Capital, 59-42
#48	3	St. Norbert	2-2	LOST at #49 Carthage, 48-61; def. Martin Luther, 58-47; def. UW-Superior, 77-68; LOST to T#44 UW-Eau Claire, 44-49
#49	2	Carthage	4-1	def. #48 St. Norbert, 61-48; def. Nebraska Wesleyan, 71-45; def. #26 Wisconsin Lutheran, 63-57; def. Benedictine, 69-49; LOST at #2 Chicago, 45-66
#50	1	St. Thomas	2-1	LOST at #11 UW-Stevens Point, 53-70; def. Southwestern, 76-63; def. Trinity (Texas), 80-63

[BigMac]

This is great Darryl, Thanks for doing this!!!

[Ralph Turner]

I guess the best way to express appreciation on these boards is to award karma (for those who have the ability).

+1! Thanks for doing this!   

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

The poll is close to the poll I am keeping on the side.  I will start to publish it on the boards next week.  Turkey day weekend, threw me off my schedule. My poll isn't through Sunday and Monday.  I had Denison out after the first loss.  1 and 2 are the same. 4 5 and 6 move up on spot and I have George Fox at #6.  Mount Union is very good, I like where they are.  (I watched a few of their games online last year too.  I really like the way they play the game.) I believe teams shouldn't benefit from winning based on their position in the poll.  I dropped Lebanon Valley down to 13.  I haven't like Greensboro's schedule.  I think their position holds, only because teams above them lost.  Guilford will make a run at the ODAC. (More on that later.) 19-25, there are some differences.  I had CNU in the poll, I didn't have them as high, but they were in the poll after that blowout to RMC.  I had Capital and Hope above CNU.  (I didn't have the Capital loss to Maryville in my poll yet.) 


I think Ferrum deserves some attention in the South.  I don't think any other southern conference school, not currently ranked, deserves a spot over Ferrum.  You could argue an undefeated team, but then we will have to look at the schedules.  USASouth has two teams ranked in the top 25.  Ferrum was picked 2nd, and they are not in poll.

USASouth's top 3 teams could compete with any of top teams in the south.  I don't think the conference gets enough credit, because the bottom half of the conference just isn't as good..

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (So Far)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	615	Amherst	4-0	def. Keene State, 66-45; 12/04 vs. Lehman
#2	598	Chicago	5-0	def. #38 Wheaton (Ill.), 71-60; 12/03 vs. #30 Illinois Wesleyan
#3	579	George Fox	4-0	12/02 at Whitman; 12/03 at Whitworth
#4	526	Calvin	6-0	def. Albion, 69-60; 12/03 vs. Adrian
#5	511	Rochester	5-0	def. Brockport State, 75-33; 12/01 at William Smith; 12/03 at TBA
#6	482	William Paterson	6-0	def. Ramapo, 73-49; 12/03 vs. New Jersey
#7	447	UW-Stevens Point	5-0	def. Elmhurst, 65-48; 12/03 vs. UW-Superior
#8	403	Lebanon Valley	5-0	def. #31 Messiah, 54-47; 12/03 vs. Arcadia
#9	392	Mount Union	5-0	12/03 at T#39 Otterbein
#10	348	Bowdoin	3-1	LOST at Southern Maine, 49-63; 12/03 at #15 Colby
#11	337	DePauw	4-1	def. Millikin, 64-41; 12/03 vs. #34 Denison
#12	315	Washington U.	4-1	12/02 vs. Augustana; 12/03 vs. TBA
#13	302	Muhlenberg	4-0	12/01 at Swarthmore; 12/03 vs. Washington College
#14	261	Greensboro	4-0	def. Methodist, 57-41; 12/03 vs. Mary Baldwin
#15	252	Colby	4-0	def. Thomas, 87-26; 12/03 vs. #10 Bowdoin
#16	246	Williams	4-0	12/02 vs. Bridgewater State; 12/03 vs. TBA
#17	223	Babson	4-1	def. WPI, 84-42; 12/03 at Mount Holyoke
#18	182	Lewis and Clark	5-0	def. Corban, 79-65; 12/02 at Whitworth; 12/03 at Whitman
#19	161	Christopher Newport	5-0	def. Mary Baldwin, 68-39; 12/03 vs. Methodist
#20	144	Juniata	6-0	12/03 vs. Susquehanna
#21	114	UW-River Falls	5-0	def. St. Scholastica, 72-56; 12/03 at UW-Platteville
#22	111	Franklin	6-0	def. Defiance, 74-60; 12/03 at Bluffton
#23	96	UW-Whitewater	5-1	12/03 vs. UW-Stout
#24	81	Hope	5-1	def. Kalamazoo, 76-39; 12/03 at Albion
#25	68	Capital	4-2	LOST at Wilmington, 30-49; 12/03 vs. John Carroll

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	42	Thomas More	3-1	def. Geneva, 82-44; 12/03 vs. Grove City
#27	37	Louisiana College	4-0	def. Texas Lutheran, 93-75; 12/01 vs. #33 Howard Payne; 12/03 vs. Sul Ross State
#28	36	St. Vincent	4-1	def. Westminster (Pa.), 72-62; 12/03 at Chatham
#29	34	Mary Washington	5-0	def. Stevenson, 64-36; 12/03 vs. Frostburg State
#30	32	Illinois Wesleyan	3-2	12/03 at #2 Chicago
#31	30	Messiah	3-2	LOST at #8 Lebanon Valley, 47-54; 12/03 at Elizabethtown
#32	25	Kean	5-1	def. Rutgers-Camden, 70-41; 12/03 at Ramapo
#33	22	Howard Payne	3-1	def. University of the Ozarks, 78-50; 12/01 at #27 Louisiana College; 12/03 at Mississippi College
#34	18	Denison	4-2	12/03 at #11 DePauw
#35	16	Baldwin-Wallace	4-1	def. Carnegie Mellon, 50-47; 12/03 at Marietta
#36	14	Carthage	5-1	def. Clarke, 67-32
#37	11	Texas-Dallas	5-0	def. Sul Ross State, 72-38; 12/01 vs. Hardin-Simmons; 12/03 vs. McMurry
#38	4	Wheaton (Ill.)	2-3	LOST to #2 Chicago, 60-71; 12/03 at UW-Oshkosh
T#39	3	Otterbein	5-0	def. Oberlin, 60-45; 12/03 vs. #9 Mount Union
T#39	3	Wisconsin Lutheran	3-1	def. Alverno, 81-51; 12/02 vs. Agnes Scott; 12/03 at TBA
T#41	2	Centre	3-1	12/02 at Millsaps; 12/04 at Rhodes
T#41	2	Transylvania	1-3	def. Midway, 70-49; 12/03 vs. Anderson

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	615	Amherst	5-0	def. Keene State, 66-45; def. Lehman, 88-33
#2	598	Chicago	6-0	def. #38 Wheaton (Ill.), 71-60; def. #30 Illinois Wesleyan, 80-77
#3	579	George Fox	6-0	def. Whitman, 54-53; def. Whitworth, 81-69
#4	526	Calvin	7-0	def. Albion, 69-60; def. Adrian, 64-46
#5	511	Rochester	7-0	def. Brockport State, 75-33; def. William Smith, 67-55; def. Roberts Wesleyan, 56-44
#6	482	William Paterson	7-0	def. Ramapo, 73-49; def. New Jersey, 71-53
#7	447	UW-Stevens Point	6-0	def. Elmhurst, 65-48; def. UW-Superior, 74-55
#8	403	Lebanon Valley	6-0	def. #31 Messiah, 54-47; def. Arcadia, 75-44
#9	392	Mount Union	5-1	LOST at T#39 Otterbein, 52-63
#10	348	Bowdoin	3-2	LOST at Southern Maine, 49-63; LOST at #15 Colby, 41-56
#11	337	DePauw	5-1	def. Millikin, 64-41; def. #34 Denison, 58-45
#12	315	Washington U.	6-1	def. Augustana, 70-47; def. T#39 Wisconsin Lutheran, 70-58
#13	302	Muhlenberg	6-0	def. Swarthmore, 85-70; def. Washington College, 71-63
#14	261	Greensboro	5-0	def. Methodist, 57-41; def. Mary Baldwin, 74-46
#15	252	Colby	5-0	def. Thomas, 87-26; def. #10 Bowdoin, 56-41
#16	246	Williams	6-0	def. Bridgewater State, 89-63; def. Daemen, 71-45
#17	223	Babson	5-1	def. WPI, 84-42; def. Mount Holyoke, 63-33
#18	182	Lewis and Clark	7-0	def. Corban, 79-65; def. Whitworth, 69-56; def. Whitman, 64-54
#19	161	Christopher Newport	5-1	def. Mary Baldwin, 68-39; LOST to Methodist, 60-64
#20	144	Juniata	7-0	def. Susquehanna, 83-53
#21	114	UW-River Falls	6-0	def. St. Scholastica, 72-56; def. UW-Platteville, 67-46
#22	111	Franklin	7-0	def. Defiance, 74-60; def. Bluffton, 60-48
#23	96	UW-Whitewater	6-1	def. UW-Stout, 95-65
#24	81	Hope	6-1	def. Kalamazoo, 76-39; def. Albion, 78-53
#25	68	Capital	5-2	LOST at Wilmington, 30-49; def. John Carroll, 71-39

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	42	Thomas More	4-1	def. Geneva, 82-44; def. Grove City, 71-29
#27	37	Louisiana College	6-0	def. Texas Lutheran, 93-75; def. #33 Howard Payne, 104-76; def. Sul Ross State, 105-60
#28	36	St. Vincent	5-1	def. Westminster (Pa.), 72-62; def. Chatham, 62-37
#29	34	Mary Washington	6-0	def. Stevenson, 64-36; def. Frostburg State, 64-31
#30	32	Illinois Wesleyan	3-3	LOST at #2 Chicago, 77-80
#31	30	Messiah	4-2	LOST at #8 Lebanon Valley, 47-54; def. Elizabethtown, 66-49
#32	25	Kean	6-1	def. Rutgers-Camden, 70-41; def. Ramapo, 90-84
#33	22	Howard Payne	4-2	def. University of the Ozarks, 78-50; LOST at #27 Louisiana College, 76-104; def. Mississippi College, 68-63
#34	18	Denison	4-3	LOST at #11 DePauw, 45-58
#35	16	Baldwin-Wallace	4-2	def. Carnegie Mellon, 50-47; LOST at Marietta, 64-70
#36	14	Carthage	5-1	def. Clarke, 67-32
#37	11	Texas-Dallas	6-1	def. Sul Ross State, 72-38; def. Hardin-Simmons, 67-56; LOST to McMurry, 49-53
#38	4	Wheaton (Ill.)	3-3	LOST to #2 Chicago, 60-71; def. UW-Oshkosh, 61-58
T#39	3	Otterbein	6-0	def. Oberlin, 60-45; def. #9 Mount Union, 63-52
T#39	3	Wisconsin Lutheran	4-2	def. Alverno, 81-51; def. Agnes Scott, 62-40; LOST at #12 Washington U., 58-70
T#41	2	Centre	5-1	def. Millsaps, 66-61; def. Rhodes, 62-57
T#41	2	Transylvania	1-4	def. Midway, 70-49; LOST to Anderson, 45-54

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Ok.  I am going to do this again.  I first posted this on the 10th of last year and then I followed it up every week.  We have 34 undefeated teams 16 of which are ranked.  Last year at this time there was only 8 ranked teams with 30 undefeated. I should have my personal  top 25 poll out tonight or early tomorrow.

Team	Record
Louisanna College	5-0
Concordia (Texas)	4-0
Mary Washington	6-0
Mulenberg	6-0
Ithaca	6-0
Piedmont	6-0
Franklin	7-0
Hanover	3-0
Juniata	7-0
Skidmore	4-0
Vassar	4-0
Western Conn	7-0
Fitchburg State	7-0
Calvin	6-0
Trine	6-0
Lebanon Valley	6-0
Ausburg	3-0
Smith	6-0
Amherst	5-0
Colby	5-0
Williams	6-0
William Patterson	6-0
New England College	7-0
Lewis and Clark	7-0
George Fox	6-0
Wiliminton	5-0
Otterbein	6-0

Eastern Mennonite	6-0
Westminster (Mo.)	5-0
Rochester	7-0
Chicago	6-0
Greensboro	4-0
UW-River Falls	6-0
UW-Stevens Point	6-0

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Are there some new people voting in the poll this year?  I've don't think I've seen as much love for undefeated teams this year compared to prior years.


Last season week 2:  13 teams in the top 25 had 1 or more losses.
This season week 2: 6 teams with 1 loss in the top 25.

[sunny]

I think you have to examine some other factors. First, are there more undefeated teams overall than at this point last year? I don't know. Second, the vast majority of undefeated teams in the poll started the season highly touted or have knocked off a highly touted team or beat another team that started hot (Otterbein, Franklin are two examples). Voting is never easy, but because of that it's been a little easier (so far) for this voter. In past years, it seemed a lot of the unbeatens at this point didn't have a signature win or the benefit of a 'pedigree.'

[Wydown Blvd.]

I'm not a voter, but it looks like the undefeated teams in the top-16 are all highly touted programs -- Chicago, Amherst, Calvin, Rochester, UW-SP etc. No team really coming out of nowhere just because they are undefeated this early in the season. It actually seems like taking a look at the undefeated teams at this point isn't a bad way to vote with not too too many upsets yet near the top of the poll -- even the Mount Union and Bowdoin losses since the last poll were to some very good teams.