Top 25 discussion

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

First, are there more undefeated teams overall than at this point last year? I don't know.

My post yesterday

Ok.  I am going to do this again.  I first posted this on the 10th of last year and then I followed it up every week.  We have 34 undefeated teams 16 of which are ranked.  Last year at this time there was only 8 ranked teams with 30 undefeated. I should have my personal  top 25 poll out tonight or early tomorrow.

I do have to give the voters a bunch of credit, you are right it is tough.

I can see the argument on why Williams jumped above Greensboro...They beat Babson (in the previous poll....)  Babson on more than one occasion was regarded as overrated last season and jumped the polls because of their record. 

I think Williams is benefiting from being in a very good conference too.   

I am not disagreeing with the jump, I do think Williams is the better team at this point.

At first I was disappointed that Greensboro didn't play well against Methodist @ Methodist, but turned out to be a quality win. As Methodist went to the Freeman Center and took out CNU. (I believe it was among the most active win streaks at home for any team in any division!) 

[sunny]

First, are there more undefeated teams overall than at this point last year? I don't know.

My post yesterday

Ok.  I am going to do this again.  I first posted this on the 10th of last year and then I followed it up every week.  We have 34 undefeated teams 16 of which are ranked.  Last year at this time there was only 8 ranked teams with 30 undefeated. I should have my personal  top 25 poll out tonight or early tomorrow.

My apologies for overlooking that, but I do think the second factor I mentioned is what is really at play here.

As for Greensboro v. Williams, I too have Williams above Greensboro (but both are in the same neighborhood) - not simply because they beat Babson, but how they did it. That game was over by halftime.  While I tend to believe that Babson's pre-season ranking was probably too high, they still seem to be a very good team.  I leap-frogged them in the week 1 poll though, while it seems a lot of other voters took a "wait and see approach."  Either way, the difference between 11th and 12th in the overall poll is only three points - an average difference of 0.12 spots per vote.  That's pretty darned close to a tie.

[sunny]

I'm not a voter, but it looks like the undefeated teams in the top-16 are all highly touted programs -- Chicago, Amherst, Calvin, Rochester, UW-SP etc. No team really coming out of nowhere just because they are undefeated this early in the season. It actually seems like taking a look at the undefeated teams at this point isn't a bad way to vote with not too too many upsets yet near the top of the poll -- even the Mount Union and Bowdoin losses since the last poll were to some very good teams.

THIS. We're simply not seeing the same number of "outlier" results we usually do yet. Williams win over Babson was an upset at the time, but Williams is still unbeaten. Same for Franklin v. DePauw and Otterbein v. Mount Union. There simply hasn't been a "Salisbury beats Va Wes Men" equivalent on the women's side this year.

[7express]

This is a big week for the Western Connecticut state women (7-0 their best start under Kim Rybczyk); play Mount St. Mary tonight and Southern Maine Saturday.  We get through these 2 games (both at home and haven't lose there since February of 2009), and there's a pretty good chance we could be undefeated heading into the RIC contest on January 24.  Hopefully, we can get some votes between now and then if that's indeed the case.

[Wydown Blvd.]

This is a big week for the Western Connecticut state women (7-0 their best start under Kim Rybczyk); play Mount St. Mary tonight and Southern Maine Saturday.  We get through these 2 games (both at home and haven't lose there since February of 2009), and there's a pretty good chance we could be undefeated heading into the RIC contest on January 24.  Hopefully, we can get some votes between now and then if that's indeed the case.

If you get those two wins you will get votes... Wins over those programs would be voter-friendly wins.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (So Far)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	618	Amherst	6-0	def. Emmanuel, 84-60; 12/08 at Eastern Connecticut
#2	599	Chicago	6-0	IDLE
#3	578	George Fox	6-0	12/09 vs. Colorado College; 12/10 vs. Chapman
#4	533	Calvin	8-0	def. Trine, 53-37
#5	510	Rochester	8-0	def. #30 Ithaca, 68-59; 12/10 at William Smith
#6	498	William Paterson	7-0	12/10 vs. #17 Juniata
#7	473	UW-Stevens Point	7-0	def. UW-Oshkosh, 56-40; 12/10 at #36 Illinois Wesleyan
#8	408	Lebanon Valley	7-0	def. Misericordia, 57-54; 12/08 at Brooklyn
#9	397	DePauw	5-1	12/10 vs. Ohio Wesleyan
#10	367	Washington U.	6-1	12/09 at Loras
#11	330	Williams	7-0	def. Skidmore, 47-31; 12/10 vs. Wesleyan
#12	327	Greensboro	5-0	12/10 at Piedmont
#13	316	Muhlenberg	8-0	def. DeSales, 66-60; def. Bryn Mawr, 115-43
#14	313	Colby	5-1	LOST to University of New England, 63-70; 12/10 at Emmanuel
#15	244	Lewis and Clark	8-0	def. Warner Pacific, 53-52
#16	217	Babson	6-1	def. Wellesley, 66-39; 12/09 vs. Wheaton (Mass.)
#17	199	Juniata	8-0	def. Dickinson, 76-51; 12/10 at #6 William Paterson
#18	192	UW-River Falls	7-0	def. Martin Luther, 74-50; 12/10 at UW-Oshkosh
#19	181	Franklin	8-0	def. Hanover, 70-67; 12/10 at Earlham
#20	172	Mount Union	6-1	def. John Carroll, 69-55; 12/10 vs. #34 Capital
#21	127	UW-Whitewater	6-2	LOST at UW-La Crosse, 68-71; 12/10 at T#37 UW-Eau Claire
#22	104	Hope	7-1	def. St. Mary's (Ind.), 74-56; 12/10 vs. Alma
#23	101	Louisiana College	7-0	def. Mississippi College, 71-56
#24	68	Mary Washington	6-0	12/09 at Marymount
#25	53	Otterbein	6-1	LOST to Ohio Northern, 50-52; 12/10 at Marietta

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	42	Christopher Newport	5-1	IDLE
#27	40	Thomas More	5-1	def. Washington and Jefferson, 63-43; 12/10 at Bethany
#28	34	Kean	6-2	LOST at DeSales, 78-85; 12/10 vs. Messiah
#29	20	Wilmington	5-0	12/10 vs. Baldwin-Wallace
#30	17	Ithaca	6-1	LOST to #5 Rochester, 59-68; 12/10 vs. Baruch
#31	15	Carthage	6-1	def. Loras, 67-51; 12/10 vs. Coe
#32	10	St. Vincent	6-1	def. Grove City, 73-53; 12/10 at Thiel
#33	9	Bowdoin	4-2	def. Husson, 99-64; 12/08 vs. Bates; 12/10 at Emerson
#34	5	Capital	5-2	12/10 at #20 Mount Union
#35	3	Centre	5-1	IDLE
#36	2	Illinois Wesleyan	3-3	12/10 vs. #7 UW-Stevens Point
T#37	1	Howard Payne	4-2	12/10 vs. Texas-Tyler
T#37	1	McMurry	5-1	12/08 vs. East Texas Baptist; 12/10 vs. Centenary (La.)
T#37	1	UW-Eau Claire	6-2	def. UW-Platteville, 71-62; 12/10 vs. #21 UW-Whitewater

[Ralph Turner]

I am glad to see McMurry women getting votes.

After the very strong road trip to Ozarks (an 8-hour trip to a hostile environment with a solid core of fans) and the another 5hour bus ride back to Dallas to play before a strong UTDallas team, they awept the weekend.

McMurry has an athletic ETBU and Centenary this week, and then crosstown Hardin-Simmons on the 19th.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	618	Amherst	7-0	def. Emmanuel, 84-60; def. Eastern Connecticut, 66-45
#2	599	Chicago	6-0	IDLE
#3	578	George Fox	8-0	def. Colorado College, 69-27; def. Chapman, 81-47
#4	533	Calvin	8-0	def. Trine, 53-37
#5	510	Rochester	9-0	def. #30 Ithaca, 68-59; def. William Smith, 61-53
#6	498	William Paterson	8-0	def. #17 Juniata, 71-53
#7	473	UW-Stevens Point	8-0	def. UW-Oshkosh, 56-40; def. #36 Illinois Wesleyan, 82-68
#8	408	Lebanon Valley	8-0	def. Misericordia, 57-54; def. Brooklyn, 61-47
#9	397	DePauw	6-1	def. Ohio Wesleyan, 79-52
#10	367	Washington U.	7-1	def. Loras, 55-50
#11	330	Williams	8-0	def. Skidmore, 47-31; def. Wesleyan, 69-55
#12	327	Greensboro	5-1	LOST at Piedmont, 45-57
#13	316	Muhlenberg	8-0	def. DeSales, 66-60; def. Bryn Mawr, 115-43
#14	313	Colby	6-1	LOST to University of New England, 63-70; def. Emmanuel, 56-53
#15	244	Lewis and Clark	8-0	def. Warner Pacific, 53-52
#16	217	Babson	7-1	def. Wellesley, 66-39; def. Wheaton (Mass.), 82-42
#17	199	Juniata	8-1	def. Dickinson, 76-51; LOST at #6 William Paterson, 53-71
#18	192	UW-River Falls	8-0	def. Martin Luther, 74-50; def. UW-Oshkosh, 71-44
#19	181	Franklin	9-0	def. Hanover, 70-67; def. Earlham, 77-29
#20	172	Mount Union	7-1	def. John Carroll, 69-55; def. #34 Capital, 79-73
#21	127	UW-Whitewater	6-3	LOST at UW-La Crosse, 68-71; LOST at T#37 UW-Eau Claire, 70-75
#22	104	Hope	8-1	def. St. Mary's (Ind.), 74-56; def. Alma, 86-50
#23	101	Louisiana College	7-0	def. Mississippi College, 71-56
#24	68	Mary Washington	7-0	def. Marymount, 63-42
#25	53	Otterbein	7-1	LOST to Ohio Northern, 50-52; def. Marietta, 68-60

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	42	Christopher Newport	5-1	IDLE
#27	40	Thomas More	6-1	def. Washington and Jefferson, 63-43; def. Bethany, 83-64
#28	34	Kean	7-2	LOST at DeSales, 78-85; def. Messiah, 87-67
#29	20	Wilmington	6-0	def. Baldwin-Wallace, 54-48
#30	17	Ithaca	7-1	LOST to #5 Rochester, 59-68; def. Baruch, 64-59
#31	15	Carthage	6-2	def. Loras, 67-51; LOST to Coe, 57-63
#32	10	St. Vincent	7-1	def. Grove City, 73-53; def. Thiel, 79-66
#33	9	Bowdoin	6-2	def. Husson, 99-64; def. Bates, 66-60; def. Emerson, 83-59
#34	5	Capital	5-3	LOST at #20 Mount Union, 73-79
#35	3	Centre	5-1	IDLE
#36	2	Illinois Wesleyan	3-4	LOST to #7 UW-Stevens Point, 68-82
T#37	1	Howard Payne	5-2	def. Texas-Tyler, 85-69
T#37	1	McMurry	7-1	def. East Texas Baptist, 68-56; def. Centenary (La.), 87-61
T#37	1	UW-Eau Claire	7-2	def. UW-Platteville, 71-62; def. #21 UW-Whitewater, 75-70

[7express]

William Paterson creams a very good defensive MSM team tonight 74-41.  That team is very good, and the role players scored a lot of points.  That's a team I could end up seeing in the regional finals this year, clearly the best in the NJAC this year.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	619	Amherst	8-0	def. Springfield, 69-26
#2	597	Chicago	8-0	def. Olivet, 80-36; def. St. Mary's (Ind.), 70-60
#3	579	George Fox	8-0	IDLE
#4	535	Calvin	9-0	def. Olivet, 72-33
#5	505	Rochester	10-0	def. Rochester Tech, 79-45
#6	504	William Paterson	10-0	def. York (N.Y.), 90-40; def. Mount St. Mary, 74-41
#7	485	UW-Stevens Point	10-0	def. #28 UW-Whitewater, 71-50; def. Lawrence, 74-38
#8	420	Lebanon Valley	8-0	IDLE
#9	408	DePauw	6-1	IDLE
#10	382	Washington U.	8-1	def. Webster, 54-44
#11	361	Williams	8-0	IDLE
#12	338	Muhlenberg	9-0	def. Albright, 80-47
#13	307	Lewis and Clark	9-0	def. Whittier, 76-61 (live stats stalled at 0:23 remaining)
#14	288	UW-River Falls	10-0	def. UW-Stout, 69-38; def. T#37 Simpson, 75-59
#15	262	Franklin	10-0	def. Trine, 51-43
#16	238	Babson	7-1	IDLE
#17	186	Louisiana College	8-1	def. Mary Hardin-Baylor, 106-73
#18	161	Hope	10-1	def. Finlandia, 76-42; def. T#32 Ithaca, 61-50
#19	151	Juniata	9-1	def. Marymount, 63-48
#20	150	Mount Union	8-1	def. #25 Wilmington, 76-55
#21	124	Mary Washington	8-0	def. T#30 Christopher Newport, 52-48
#22	123	Greensboro	5-1	IDLE
#23	96	Colby	6-1	IDLE
#24	56	Piedmont	9-0	def. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, 70-53; def. Pomona-Pitzer, 76-46
#25	52	Wilmington	6-2	LOST at Marietta, 61-63; LOST to #20 Mount Union, 55-76

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	40	Thomas More	7-1	def. Wittenberg, 78-62
#27	38	Otterbein	8-1	def. John Carroll, 72-64
#28	20	UW-Whitewater	6-4	LOST to #7 UW-Stevens Point, 50-71
#29	16	Ohio Northern	9-1	def. Marietta, 80-36
T#30	14	Christopher Newport	5-2	LOST at #21 Mary Washington, 48-52
T#30	14	St. Vincent	7-1	IDLE
T#32	12	Ithaca	8-2	def. Robert Morris-Springfield, 67-36; LOST at #18 Hope, 50-61
T#32	12	McMurry	7-1	IDLE
#34	10	UW-Eau Claire	8-2	def. UW-Superior, 76-38
#35	8	University of New England	6-1	IDLE
#36	4	Centre	8-1	def. Mount St. Joseph, 81-67; def. Birmingham-Southern, 64-50; def. Oglethorpe, 77-71
T#37	2	Bowdoin	6-2	IDLE
T#37	2	New England College	10-0	IDLE
T#37	2	Simpson	7-3	LOST at #14 UW-River Falls, 59-75
T#40	1	Coe	8-2	def. Carleton, 82-74
T#40	1	Fitchburg State	10-0	def. Mount Ida, 72-62
T#40	1	Kean	8-2	def. Baruch, 82-64
T#40	1	UW-La Crosse	8-2	def. St. Mary's (Minn.), 61-49

[7express]

Leb Valley in danger of their first loss of the season; down 62-50 to Stockton with about 6 minutes left.

Leb Valley suffers first loss, loses 75-65 at Richard Stockton.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (So Far)

Not many games so far, and no new poll until the new year, but here is a look at the games between now and then.  I'll post a complete report on January 1 (and probably nothing else before then).

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	619	Amherst	8-0	12/28 vs. Concordia (Wis.); 12/29 at WPI
#2	598	Chicago	8-0	12/30 at North Park
#3	577	George Fox	10-0	def. Spalding, 58-34; def. Worcester State, 70-42; 12/27 at Concordia (Ore.)
#4	536	Calvin	9-0	12/30 at #40 UW-La Crosse; 12/31 at Luther
#5	505	Rochester	10-0	IDLE
#6	493	William Paterson	10-0	12/29 vs. Ursinus; 12/30 at TBA
#7	489	UW-Stevens Point	10-0	12/28 vs. Pt. Loma Nazarene; 12/29 vs. Wellesley
#8	422	Lebanon Valley	9-1	def. St. Mary's (Md.), 78-64; LOST at Richard Stockton, 65-75; 12/29 vs. Frostburg State
#9	415	DePauw	8-1	def. T#36 Hanover, 72-38; def. Wilmington, 64-59; 12/29 vs. Alma
#10	391	Washington U.	8-1	12/29 at UW-Oshkosh; 12/30 at TBA
#11	343	Muhlenberg	9-0	IDLE
#12	322	Lewis and Clark	11-0	def. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, 68-50; def. La Sierra, 78-53
#13	317	Williams	8-0	12/29 at Rutgers-Newark; 12/30 at TBA
#14	288	UW-River Falls	10-0	12/28 vs. #25 Thomas More; 12/29 vs. Carthage
#15	272	Franklin	10-0	12/30 vs. Alma
#16	237	Babson	7-1	12/30 vs. UW-Stout; 12/31 at TBA
#17	203	Hope	10-1	12/28 at Concordia Chicago; 12/29 vs. Baldwin-Wallace
#18	180	Juniata	9-1	12/29 vs. Misericordia; 12/30 vs. Ramapo
#19	166	Mount Union	10-1	def. Bates, 76-55; def. Drew, 65-33
#20	160	Mary Washington	8-0	12/28 vs. Keene State; 12/29 vs. SUNYIT
#21	159	Louisiana College	8-2	LOST at Concordia (Texas), 71-82
#22	84	Piedmont	10-0	def. La Verne, 97-84
#23	64	Greensboro	5-1	IDLE
#24	53	Otterbein	9-1	def. Baldwin-Wallace, 64-59; 12/28 vs. Bluffton; 12/29 vs. Case Western Reserve
#25	52	Thomas More	8-1	def. Bluffton, 69-44; 12/28 at #14 UW-River Falls; 12/30 vs. T#36 Simpson

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	41	Colby	6-1	IDLE
#27	27	McMurry	8-1	def. Hardin-Simmons, 72-64; 12/30 at Tarleton St.
#28	26	St. Vincent	8-1	def. Capital, 84-66; 12/29 at Ramapo; 12/30 vs. Misericordia
#29	25	Ohio Northern	9-2	LOST at Capital, 64-83; 12/30 vs. Adrian
#30	14	UW-Eau Claire	8-2	12/28 vs. Trinity (Texas); 12/29 at Southwestern; 12/31 at Austin
#31	12	St. Thomas	7-1	IDLE
#32	11	Ithaca	8-2	IDLE
#33	7	University of New England	6-1	IDLE
#34	5	Centre	8-1	12/29 at Ripon; 12/30 at Mississippi College
#35	3	Coe	9-2	def. Rockford, 81-34; 12/30 vs. Mount Mercy
T#36	2	Bowdoin	6-2	12/30 at Rivier; 12/31 at Cal Lutheran
T#36	2	Fitchburg State	10-0	IDLE
T#36	2	Hanover	6-2	LOST to #9 DePauw, 38-72; def. Kalamazoo, 87-57; 12/29 at Denison; 12/30 at Muskingum; 12/31 at TBA
T#36	2	Simpson	7-3	12/29 at Eureka; 12/30 at #25 Thomas More
#40	1	UW-La Crosse	8-2	12/29 vs. Luther; 12/30 vs. #4 Calvin

[Ralph Turner]

Concordia TX may be the best team in the ASC this year.

The coach, Randy Rainbolt, came from Coach Veronica Snow's staff at McMurry.

He is very qualified and is hungry to have his own winning program.

CTX is a great place for him. His home win over LaCollege (in its first full season since the death of Coach Janice Joseph-Richard) was eye-catching to us ASC fans.

McMurry goes to LaCollege on Jan 7th (500-mile bus trip) on the front end of that weekend 1300 mile weekend which has McMurry playing Louisiana College and then Mississippi College.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Happy New Year!

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	619	Amherst	10-0	def. Concordia (Wis.), 67-37; def. WPI, 109-39
#2	598	Chicago	9-0	def. North Park, 65-49
#3	577	George Fox	11-0	def. Spalding, 58-34; def. Worcester State, 70-42; def. Concordia (Ore.), 72-42
#4	536	Calvin	11-0	def. #40 UW-La Crosse, 60-40; def. Luther, 74-38
#5	505	Rochester	10-0	IDLE
#6	493	William Paterson	12-0	def. Ursinus, 64-49; def. York (Pa.), 74-61
#7	489	UW-Stevens Point	11-1	LOST to Pt. Loma Nazarene, 66-74; def. Wellesley, 62-43
#8	422	Lebanon Valley	10-1	def. St. Mary's (Md.), 78-64; LOST at Richard Stockton, 65-75; def. Frostburg State, 73-43
#9	415	DePauw	9-1	def. T#36 Hanover, 72-38; def. Wilmington, 64-59; def. Alma, 75-50
#10	391	Washington U.	10-1	def. UW-Oshkosh, 61-48; def. Wartburg, 47-37
#11	343	Muhlenberg	9-0	IDLE
#12	322	Lewis and Clark	11-0	def. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, 68-50; def. La Sierra, 78-53
#13	317	Williams	10-0	def. Rutgers-Newark, 66-43; def. RPI, 62-47
#14	288	UW-River Falls	11-1	def. #25 Thomas More, 60-50; LOST to Carthage, 68-75
#15	272	Franklin	11-0	def. Alma, 69-52
#16	237	Babson	8-2	def. UW-Stout, 72-52; LOST at Southern Maine, 66-68
#17	203	Hope	12-1	def. Concordia (Ill.), 68-54; def. Baldwin-Wallace, 62-45
#18	180	Juniata	11-1	def. Misericordia, 69-68; def. Ramapo, 68-57
#19	166	Mount Union	10-1	def. Bates, 76-55; def. Drew, 65-33
#20	160	Mary Washington	10-0	def. Keene State, 46-25; def. SUNYIT, 62-45
#21	159	Louisiana College	8-2	LOST at Concordia (Texas), 71-82
#22	84	Piedmont	10-0	def. La Verne, 97-84
#23	64	Greensboro	5-1	IDLE
#24	53	Otterbein	10-2	def. Baldwin-Wallace, 64-59; def. Bluffton, 100-49; LOST to Case Western Reserve, 74-75
#25	52	Thomas More	8-3	def. Bluffton, 69-44; LOST to #14 UW-River Falls, 50-60; LOST at T#36 Simpson, 66-79

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	41	Colby	6-1	IDLE
#27	27	McMurry	8-2	def. Hardin-Simmons, 72-64; LOST at Tarleton St., 39-71
#28	26	St. Vincent	9-2	def. Capital, 84-66; LOST to Ramapo, 64-79; def. Misericordia, 73-55
#29	25	Ohio Northern	10-2	LOST at Capital, 64-83; def. Adrian, 64-63
#30	14	UW-Eau Claire	11-2	def. Trinity (Texas), 81-34; def. Southwestern, 72-62; def. Austin, 66-32
#31	12	St. Thomas	7-1	IDLE
#32	11	Ithaca	8-2	IDLE
#33	7	University of New England	6-1	IDLE
#34	5	Centre	10-1	def. Ripon, 70-56; def. Mississippi College, 69-56
#35	3	Coe	9-3	def. Rockford, 81-34; LOST to Mount Mercy, 68-80
T#36	2	Bowdoin	7-3	def. Rivier, 90-66; LOST at Cal Lutheran, 55-56
T#36	2	Fitchburg State	10-0	IDLE
T#36	2	Hanover	7-3	LOST to #9 DePauw, 38-72; def. Kalamazoo, 87-57; LOST at Denison, 51-60; def. Muskingum, 69-56
T#36	2	Simpson	9-3	def. Eureka, 94-70; def. #25 Thomas More, 79-66
#40	1	UW-La Crosse	9-3	def. Luther, 67-47; LOST to #4 Calvin, 40-60

[7express]

Lot of teams lost this week, hopefully RIC gets a vote or 2 (or even USM with their win over Babson).  I'd like to see at least 1 LEC team in at least the ORV category at seasons end.