Top 25 discussion

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared What's Coming Up

A few games have already taken place this week; ordinarily I would post this report on Thursday morning, but I thought it would be more helpful to see a list of what's in store in the next week and a half. A number of the upcoming games are holiday tournaments, so quite a few opponents are "TBA/TBD".

Personally, I'm looking forward to the chance to see #5 St. Thomas vs. #7 Hope at Bluffton's Holiday tournament next week (and then seeing how Bluffton fares against one of those teams the following day).

(I assume the next poll is coming out on January 2; that would be consistent with the last time January 1 fell on a Sunday, in the 2011-12 season.)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	610	Tufts	9-0	IDLE
#2	595	Amherst	8-0	12/28 at Chapman; 12/29 vs. SUNY Oneonta
#3	567	Scranton	11-0	won at Lebanon Valley, 63-52
#4	517	Thomas More	8-0	def. (n) Ohio Christian, 87-59; 12/21 at Wilmington; 12/29 vs. Illinois Wesleyan
#5	498	St. Thomas	8-0	12/29 vs. #7 Hope; 12/30 vs. TBA
#6	488	Washington U.	8-0	12/29 vs. UW-La Crosse; 12/30 at TBA
#7	470	Hope	10-0	12/21 vs. Albion; 12/29 vs. #5 St. Thomas; 12/30 vs. TBA
#8	439	Wartburg	10-0	def. (n) Southern Maine, 72-53; def. (n) William Smith, 86-56; 12/29 vs. Hamline; 12/30 vs. TBA
#9	419	UW-Oshkosh	7-1	LOST to (n) #27 DePauw, 56-60; 12/21 vs. John Carroll; 12/29 vs. Carleton; 12/30 vs. Bethel
#10	387	Christopher Newport	9-0	12/30 vs. Virginia Wesleyan
#11	360	Montclair State	10-0	def. (n) St. Mary's (Ind.), 81-31; 12/21 vs. Regis (Mass.)
#12	347	Carnegie Mellon	9-0	won at Capital, 76-54; 12/22 vs. Muskingum; 12/30 vs. Penn State-Behrend
#13	333	Bowdoin	8-0	12/29 at Claremont-Mudd-Scripps; 12/30 at Pomona-Pitzer
#14	289	Mary Washington	9-0	12/28 vs. Brooklyn; 12/29 vs. Gwynedd Mercy
#15	266	George Fox	7-1	12/22 vs. Bethesda University; 12/29 at #18 Trinity (Texas); 12/30 at Southwestern
#16	227	UW-Whitewater	8-1	LOST at T#31 Augustana, 78-86; 12/29 vs. Case Western Reserve; 12/30 at TBD
#17	212	Ohio Northern	9-0	12/29 vs. Castleton; 12/30 vs. Westfield State
#18	139	Trinity (Texas)	9-0	12/21 vs. Hanover; 12/29 vs. #15 George Fox
#19	138	Albright	7-2	LOST at DeSales, 67-88; 12/28 vs. Rowan; 12/29 vs. Denison
#20	123	New York University	8-0	12/30 at Franklin and Marshall
#21	114	Rochester	6-2	12/29 vs. Kalamazoo; 12/30 vs. TBA
#22	113	Whitman	11-0	def. (n) Occidental, 67-49; def. (n) Redlands, 63-42
#23	110	Puget Sound	8-1	12/28 vs. Coe; 12/29 vs. Simpson
#24	94	Wheaton (Ill.)	6-2	12/29 vs. UC Santa Cruz; 12/30 vs. Whitworth
#25	67	Texas-Tyler	8-3	LOST at LeTourneau, 76-86; 12/28 vs. Austin

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	50	UW-Stevens Point	7-2	12/29 vs. Williams; 12/30 vs. Kenyon
#27	40	DePauw	9-1	def. (n) #9 UW-Oshkosh, 60-56; 12/21 vs. Vassar; 12/28 vs. Millikin; 12/29 vs. Coast Guard
#28	29	Messiah	11-0	def. (n) John Carroll, 63-39
#29	26	Calvin	9-1	12/21 vs. Kean; 12/22 vs. Grove City
#30	16	Ithaca	7-1	IDLE
T#31	12	Augustana	10-0	def. #16 UW-Whitewater, 86-78; 12/29 vs. Berea; 12/30 vs. TBD
T#31	12	Gustavus Adolphus	10-0	12/29 at UW-River Falls
T#33	5	Stockton	9-2	IDLE
T#33	5	SUNY Geneseo	8-0	IDLE
T#35	4	Guilford	7-1	12/30 vs. Husson
T#35	4	Marymount	7-2	won at Shenandoah, 60-44; 12/29 vs. Lynchburg; 12/30 vs. Castleton

[gordonmann]

Yep, that's the next poll.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (So Far)

Here are the results of the past week (only about 10 new ones since last Wednesday--all wins), plus those coming up as we await next Monday's new poll.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	610	Tufts	9-0	IDLE
#2	595	Amherst	8-0	12/28 at Chapman; 12/29 vs. SUNY Oneonta
#3	567	Scranton	11-0	won at Lebanon Valley, 63-52
#4	517	Thomas More	9-0	def. (n) Ohio Christian, 87-59; won at Wilmington, 61-59; 12/29 vs. Illinois Wesleyan
#5	498	St. Thomas	8-0	12/29 vs. #7 Hope; 12/30 vs. TBA
#6	488	Washington U.	8-0	12/29 vs. UW-La Crosse; 12/30 at TBA
#7	470	Hope	11-0	def. Albion, 78-71; 12/29 vs. #5 St. Thomas; 12/30 vs. TBA
#8	439	Wartburg	10-0	def. (n) Southern Maine, 72-53; def. (n) William Smith, 86-56; 12/29 vs. Hamline; 12/30 vs. TBA
#9	419	UW-Oshkosh	8-1	LOST to (n) #27 DePauw, 56-60; def. (n) John Carroll, 65-41; 12/29 vs. Carleton; 12/30 vs. Bethel
#10	387	Christopher Newport	9-0	12/30 vs. Virginia Wesleyan
#11	360	Montclair State	11-0	def. (n) St. Mary's (Ind.), 81-31; def. (n) Regis (Mass.), 70-28
#12	347	Carnegie Mellon	10-0	won at Capital, 76-54; def. Muskingum, 72-55; 12/30 vs. Penn State-Behrend
#13	333	Bowdoin	8-0	12/29 at Claremont-Mudd-Scripps; 12/30 at Pomona-Pitzer
#14	289	Mary Washington	9-0	12/28 vs. Brooklyn; 12/29 vs. Gwynedd Mercy
#15	266	George Fox	7-1	12/29 at #18 Trinity (Texas); 12/30 at Southwestern
#16	227	UW-Whitewater	8-1	LOST at T#31 Augustana, 78-86; 12/29 vs. Case Western Reserve; 12/30 at TBD
#17	212	Ohio Northern	9-0	12/29 vs. Castleton; 12/30 vs. Westfield State
#18	139	Trinity (Texas)	10-0	def. Hanover, 77-58; 12/29 vs. #15 George Fox
#19	138	Albright	7-2	LOST at DeSales, 67-88; 12/28 vs. Rowan; 12/29 vs. Denison
#20	123	New York University	8-0	12/30 at Franklin and Marshall
#21	114	Rochester	6-2	12/29 vs. Kalamazoo; 12/30 vs. TBA
#22	113	Whitman	11-0	def. (n) Occidental, 67-49; def. (n) Redlands, 63-42
#23	110	Puget Sound	8-1	IDLE
#24	94	Wheaton (Ill.)	6-2	12/29 vs. UC Santa Cruz; 12/30 vs. Whitworth
#25	67	Texas-Tyler	8-3	LOST at LeTourneau, 76-86; 12/28 vs. Austin

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	50	UW-Stevens Point	7-2	12/29 vs. Williams; 12/30 vs. Kenyon
#27	40	DePauw	10-1	def. (n) #9 UW-Oshkosh, 60-56; def. (n) Vassar, 70-59; 12/28 vs. Millikin; 12/29 vs. Coast Guard
#28	29	Messiah	11-0	def. (n) John Carroll, 63-39
#29	26	Calvin	11-1	def. (n) Kean, 65-55; def. (n) Grove City, 57-40
#30	16	Ithaca	7-1	IDLE
T#31	12	Augustana	10-0	def. #16 UW-Whitewater, 86-78; 12/29 vs. Berea; 12/30 vs. TBD
T#31	12	Gustavus Adolphus	10-0	12/29 at UW-River Falls
T#33	5	Stockton	9-2	IDLE
T#33	5	SUNY Geneseo	8-0	IDLE
T#35	4	Guilford	7-1	12/30 vs. Husson
T#35	4	Marymount	7-2	won at Shenandoah, 60-44; 12/29 vs. Lynchburg; 12/30 vs. Castleton

[Darryl Nester]

There's often not a lot of discussion here between my reports (unlike on the men's side), but I wondered if any of the readers of this board would have any comments about the d3hoops.com poll (on the left below) vs. the WBCA poll https://wbca.org/recognize/polls/december-13-2016. (Note the most recent WBCA poll was released 12/13, while the d3hoops poll came out almost a week later.)

For the most part, there's reasonable agreement, but a few notable discrepancies, such as d3hoops voters have #19 Albright just ahead of #20 NYU, while the WBCA voters (a panel of eight coaches) have NYU at #17 and Albright at #26. In addition, teams in BOLD appear in one list but not the other.

Thoughts?

(P.S. Really looking forward to seeing Hope vs. St. Thomas tonight -- and also Bluffton, of course.)

Pts	School (1st votes)	Pts	School (1st votes)
610	Tufts (15)	195	Tufts (6)
595	Amherst (4)	194	Amherst (2)
567	Scranton (1)	181	Scranton
517	Thomas More (5)	173	Thomas More
498	St. Thomas	172	Washington - St. Louis
488	Washington U.	158	St. Thomas
470	Hope	153	Hope
439	Wartburg	142	Wartburg
419	UW-Oshkosh	130	UW-Oshkosh
387	Christopher Newport	118	Christopher Newport
360	Montclair State	112	Bowdoin
347	Carnegie Mellon	105	Ohio Northern
333	Bowdoin	99	George Fox
289	Mary Washington	94	Mary Washington
266	George Fox	92	Carnegie Mellon
227	UW-Whitewater	81	Montclair State
212	Ohio Northern	61	New York University
139	Trinity (Texas)	53	UW-Stevens Point
138	Albright	48	Whitman
123	New York University	37	Rochester
114	Rochester	33	Trinity (TX)
113	Whitman	32	Texas - Tyler
110	Puget Sound	32	UW-Whitewater
94	Wheaton (Ill.)	26	Bluffton
67	Texas-Tyler	19	Wheaton
-------	---------------------------	--------	---------------------------
50	UW-Stevens Point	17	Albright
40	DePauw	10	Muhlenberg
29	Messiah	10	Puget Sound
26	Calvin	8	Chicago
16	Ithaca	6	Calvin
12	Augustana	5	Messiah
12	Gustavus Adolphus	3	DePauw
5	Stockton	1	SUNY Geneseo
5	SUNY Geneseo
4	Guilford
4	Marymount

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

This year, for the women, it seems difficult to know much of anything before conference play.  I talked with Bill Broderick (of CNU) after their win at Salisbury and he was pretty adamant that Marymount was a cut above both his team and Mary Washington in the CAC, but they're just now starting to get some votes.  That's always a very tough conference, so it could play out differently, but I suspect the actual results in Jan and Feb will be more telling.

[Darryl Nester]

This year, for the women, it seems difficult to know much of anything before conference play. ...

Agreed. At the time of the last poll, there were 23 undefeated teams on the women's side (maybe more--it's possible there are some undefeated teams who have not shown up in the poll). UW-Oshkosh and UW-Whitewater have lost since that poll--to teams just outside the top 25--but they (along with quite a few one- and two-loss teams) are still worthy of consideration.

By contrast, on the men's side, there were only 8 undefeated teams in the last poll (plus one more--Cal Lutheran--who was undefeated at that time, but got no votes).

[gordonmann]

Thanks for doing that Darryl.

I email information on the Top 25 teams and candidates to voters every week. Voters are free to pick whomever they want and we obviously have information on all teams on our site, but I offer this as a convenient reference.

Bluffton has been in that information for a while and no one (including me) has voted for them. I think we have that right. To be fair, I think the WBCA poll was right on Albright, even before today's loss to Denison.

[Darryl Nester]

I email information on the Top 25 teams and candidates to voters every week. Voters are free to pick whomever they want and we obviously have information on all teams on our site, but I offer this as a convenient reference.

Bluffton has been in that information for a while and no one (including me) has voted for them. I think we have that right. To be fair, I think the WBCA poll was right on Albright, even before today's loss to Denison.

I'm as big a Bluffton partisan as you'll find, but I am inclined to put more faith in the collective wisdom of the d3hoops voters (at this point). Tomorrow's game vs. either Hope or St. Thomas might provide some more helpful data.

[gordonmann]

Yeah. Kudos to the Beavers for getting Hope and St. Thomas to come to their tournament. That way they are guaranteed to have a chance to show they belong in the Top 25.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I'm looking forward to Wartburg and WashU today.  Should be a good one.

[Darryl Nester]

I email information on the Top 25 teams and candidates to voters every week. Voters are free to pick whomever they want and we obviously have information on all teams on our site, but I offer this as a convenient reference.

Bluffton has been in that information for a while and no one (including me) has voted for them. I think we have that right. To be fair, I think the WBCA poll was right on Albright, even before today's loss to Denison.

I'm as big a Bluffton partisan as you'll find, but I am inclined to put more faith in the collective wisdom of the d3hoops voters (at this point). Tomorrow's game vs. either Hope or St. Thomas might provide some more helpful data.

Beavers lead St. Thomas 37-33 at halftime.

[Darryl Nester]

Final from Bluffton:
St. Thomas 67
Bluffton 63

The Tommies' closest game this season (before this one) was beating Augsburg 69-60.

[jaybird44]

Wash-U enters UAA play a week from tomorrow (January 7) with a 10-0 record, after getting a win today over previously-unbeaten Wartburg 87-84 in Wartburg's holiday tournament.  Wash-U was #6 and Wartburg #8 entering the game.

Madeline Homoly had a career-best 30 points in today's victory, to go along with 9 rebounds and 4 steals.  Jenn Dynis added 13 points, and Zoe Vernon scored all 17 of her points in the 2nd half.  Homoly was the tournament MVP, and Vernon was also on the all-tournament team.

Wash-U was down by double-digits in the 2nd quarter and down 7 at the end of the 3rd quarter, but outscored Wartburg 28-18 in the final quarter.  Dynis scored on a layup with :17 left to put the Bears up by a point, and Homoly added 2 FTs with no time left.

Wash-U is well-positioned for success in UAA play.  There is depth at every position...Homoly, Dynis, Lily Sarros, and Steph Botkin inside the paint; Vernon, Natalie Orr, and Rachael Sondag are very good 3-point shooters, and point guards Claudia Smith and Becca-Clark Callender are distributing the basketball to an assist-turnover ratio of 63-25 (2.52 to 1). 

The UAA fun is about to begin...

[Pat Coleman]

How They Fared (So Far)

A light week of action leading up to the final poll of 2016, with 17 of the 38 vote-receiving teams idle.

I discovered late last night that the file format for each team's schedule had changed slightly, so I had to do a little recoding this morning. The good news is that, because of the format change, future reports should now show when a game went to overtime. (The aggregated score reports have always included this information, but individual team pages had not.)

(EDIT - deleted because the complete report follows)

Glad you found this to be good news. The lack of OT designations on these games since we went to Presto has bugged me quite a bit and I was happy we could get this in with the new website design.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (So Far)

A light week of action leading up to the final poll of 2016, with 17 of the 38 vote-receiving teams idle.

I discovered late last night that the file format for each team's schedule had changed slightly, so I had to do a little recoding this morning. The good news is that, because of the format change, future reports should now show when a game went to overtime. (The aggregated score reports have always included this information, but individual team pages had not.)

(EDIT - deleted because the complete report follows)

Glad you found this to be good news. The lack of OT designations on these games since we went to Presto has bugged me quite a bit and I was happy we could get this in with the new website design.

I know when I first wrote my program, those designations were in there, so I had the code in there to put that information in my report. When it disappeared, it bugged me, too; perhaps you and I were the only two who even noticed its absence.