Top 25 discussion

Darryl Nester · February 16, 2020, 04:55:05 PM

How They Fared (Complete)

In response to the recent discussion, William Peace is back in the report.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	621	Tufts	24-0	def. Middlebury, 77-54; def. Williams, 76-63
#2	604	Hope	23-0	def. St. Mary's (Ind.), 69-43; won at Alma, 78-46
#3	546	DePauw	22-1	def. Ohio Wesleyan, 77-56
#4	518	UW-Whitewater	21-2	won at UW-Platteville, 59-55; won at UW-Eau Claire, 57-39
#5	510	Bowdoin	22-2	won at Wesleyan, 83-50
#6	471	Amherst	21-3	won at Trinity (Conn.), 58-53; won at Connecticut College, 76-52
#7	458	Whitman	21-2	def. #18 George Fox, 70-53; def. Pacific, 72-46
#8	439	Transylvania	22-1	def. Mount St. Joseph, 74-42; won at Manchester, 87-35
#9	428	Wartburg	20-3	def. Buena Vista, 95-59; def. Simpson, 102-62
#10	378	Loras	21-2	won at Dubuque, 86-54
#11	360	Bethel	22-1	won at #19 St. Thomas, 65-49; won at Gustavus Adolphus, 82-69
#12	333	Baldwin Wallace	21-2	def. #21 John Carroll, 80-77; won at Capital, 60-52
#13	320	Trinity (Texas)	20-3	won at JWU-Denver, 82-38; won at Colorado College, 60-56
#14	297	Augsburg	20-3	def. Hamline, 78-66; won at Macalester, 107-77
#15	286	Oglethorpe	24-1	won at Berry, 62-47
#16	251	Scranton	20-3	def. Moravian, 64-57; won at Juniata, 69-57
#17	217	Mary Hardin-Baylor	19-4	won at T#36 East Texas Baptist, 70-65; won at LeTourneau, 67-64
#18	190	George Fox	17-6	LOST at #7 Whitman, 53-70; LOST at Whitworth, 69-75
#19	189	St. Thomas	18-5	LOST to #11 Bethel, 49-65; won at St. Benedict, 70-40
#20	125	Texas-Dallas	19-4	won at Belhaven, 111-66; won at Louisiana College, 71-40
#21	111	John Carroll	19-4	LOST at #12 Baldwin Wallace, 77-80; LOST to Ohio Northern, 58-59
#22	92	Gettysburg	20-3	def. McDaniel, 71-57; LOST at Washington College, 76-77
#23	81	Austin	20-3	def. Southwestern, 68-63; def. Texas Lutheran, 68-65
#24	78	Chicago	17-5	def. Carnegie Mellon, 73-56; def. Case Western Reserve, 83-41
#25	31	DeSales	19-4	def. Stevens, 70-50; won at T#32 Misericordia, 74-46

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
T#26	30	Albright	20-3	LOST at Widener, 68-69; def. Lycoming, 82-59
T#26	30	Trine	19-4	won at #34 Albion, 66-50; def. Adrian, 86-39
#28	29	Messiah	19-4	won at Stevenson, 65-49
#29	19	UW-La Crosse	17-6	won at UW-Stout, 76-61; def. UW-Stevens Point, 79-50
#30	18	Haverford	20-3	won at Muhlenberg, 66-51; def. McDaniel, 63-44
#31	14	Emory	16-6	LOST to T#38 New York University, 50-54; def. Brandeis, 58-57
T#32	9	Hardin-Simmons	18-5	LOST at Howard Payne, 73-76; won at Sul Ross State, 77-56
T#32	9	Misericordia	20-3	won at Wilkes, 66-58; LOST to #25 DeSales, 46-74
#34	8	Albion	19-5	LOST to T#26 Trine, 50-66; def. Calvin, 74-71
#35	7	Catholic	19-4	def. Juniata, 78-66; def. Susquehanna, 82-64
T#36	5	Benedictine	21-2	def. Illinois Tech, 75-31; won at Lakeland, 70-48
T#36	5	East Texas Baptist	17-6	LOST to #17 Mary Hardin-Baylor, 65-70; def. Concordia (Texas), 57-52
T#38	4	Christopher Newport	20-4	def. St. Mary's (Md.), 89-49; def. Salisbury, 72-68
T#38	4	New York University	18-4	won at #31 Emory, 54-50; won at Rochester, 73-47
---	---	William Peace	22-3	won at Salem, 70-41; def. Greensboro, 70-69

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · February 17, 2020, 01:04:18 PM

Quote from: dukefan1210 on February 16, 2020, 12:02:34 PM
I'm sure if it wasn't complicated they would have figured something out by now. I'm sure academics and having a wide range of schools in the conference are a positive but when the top teams can play bench players who see limited minutes the entire game and win by 25, it seems like a red flag.

I think the academics at the Centennial schools are far close aligned than people realize. McDaniel isn't some ho-hum school, for example. And we have seen many a very-high ranking academic institution turn into powerhouses in athletics ... look no further than the NESCAC in what it does in nearly all sports.

Bryn Mawr is ... confusing. They haven't seemed to figure out what their brother at Swarthmore has figured out - or they choose not to. I am not sure if being single-sex hurts as Wellesley and Smith seem to be succeeding well as single-sex institutions.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · February 17, 2020, 07:08:20 PM

In two weeks, the regular season will be over. If teams want to still be playing in March, the time to get it done is now ... including conference tournaments, some of which start for some this week.

This week will also bring with it a better understanding of which teams are in position to be playing in the NCAA Tournaments.

Monday on Hoopsville, we will chat with several programs which have positioned themselves atop their conference races and hope home court will help them punch tickets to the NCAA tournaments. However, they also know the difference between playing at home or in the NCAAs could be a single game still to be played.

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Charlie Averkamp, Benedictine women's coach
- Trent Milby, Berea women's coach
- Jake Ross, Springfield senior guard
- Dean Burrows, Wesley men's coach
- Bob Quillman & Ryan Scott, Top 25 Double-Take

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Monday's show LIVE starting at 7:00 pm ET in the following ways:
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Monday's show primarily covers the Atlantic, Central, South, and Northeast Regions. All men's coaches appear in the NABC Coach's Corner. And all guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.

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scottiedawg · February 18, 2020, 04:13:03 PM

Biggest vote gainers:
Texas-Dallas, +70
DeSales, +52
Austin, +45
Chris Newport, +31
Chicago, +29
Trine, +28
NYU, +28
Loras, +24
Messiah, +23
Baldwin Wallace, +18
Haverford, +18
Mary Hardin-Baylor, +16
Amherst, +16
Bethel, +13
Oglethorpe, +12
Wartburg, +10
Bowdoin, +10

Biggest vote losers:
George Fox, -161
St. Thomas, -78
John Carroll, -74
Gettysburg, -62
Transylvania, -30
Albright, -23
DePauw, -18
Emory, -14

Largest differences between D3hoops.com and Massey:
William Peace, -54 (54 spots lower in Massey)
Austin, -53
Catholic, -27
Scranton, -23
DeSales, -23
Gettysburg, -22
Transylvania, -18
Albright, -18
Haverford, -16
Messiah, -14
Oglethorpe, -11
Ithaca, -10
DePauw, -9

UW-LaCrosse, +18 (18 spots higher in Massey)
Trine, +12
Albion, +11
John Carroll, +9
Baldwin Wallace, +8

Teams that:
(1) receive votes in D3hoops.com poll
(2) are ranked worse in Massey than the poll, by more than 50% of their D3hoops ranking
(3) Massey SOS >= 100th
(4) NCAA SOS >= 100th

Austin
Transylvania
William Peace
Catholic
Gettysburg
Haverford
Trinity TX
Albright

Teams that:
(1) are either ranked higher in Massey than D3hoops.com, OR do not receive any votes
(2) Massey SOS =< 40
(3) NCAA SOS =< 40
(4) Massey <= 25

Baldwin-Wallace
UW-LaCrosse
Chicago
Ohio Northern

Teams in D3hoops.com top 20, whose average SOS rank (between Massey and NCAA) is >= 200
Austin
Transylvania

Among D3hoops.com teams receiving no votes, best combo of Massey ranking, and AVG SOS ranking:
Simpson, 18th, 8.50
UW-Eau Claire, 22nd, 9.00
Ohio Northern, 25th, 23.50
UW-Oshkosh, 29th, 18.00
Emory, 30th, 27.00
Luther, 31st, 26.00

VT-Alum-NOVA · February 18, 2020, 04:38:41 PM

ever compare d3hoops poll to WBCA as well?

Pat Coleman · February 18, 2020, 04:48:55 PM

Since they have so many fewer voters, it's kind of apples and oranges, especially the lower you get.

saratoga · February 18, 2020, 08:49:02 PM

Watched SUNY New Paltz & Cortland tonight.
Good game that went OT.
Kind of hard to believe New Paltz isn't on some Top 25 voters radar.

Caz Bombers · February 18, 2020, 09:39:03 PM

Quote from: saratoga on February 18, 2020, 08:49:02 PM

Watched SUNY New Paltz & Cortland tonight.
Good game that went OT.
Kind of hard to believe New Paltz isn't on some Top 25 voters radar.

New Paltz clinched the #1 seed in the SUNYAC tournament with the win tonight; I will have to make the short drive down to check out the championship game next Saturday.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · February 19, 2020, 03:05:02 PM

The second week Regional Rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/women-regional-rankings-second

Darryl Nester · February 19, 2020, 11:02:17 PM

How They Fared (So Far)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	621	Tufts	24-0	02/22 vs. Wesleyan
#2	604	Hope	24-0	def. Olivet, 99-51; 02/22 vs. #23 Trine
#3	528	DePauw	23-1	won at Denison, 70-52; 02/22 at Wooster
#4	525	UW-Whitewater	22-2	def. UW-Oshkosh, 75-71; 02/22 at UW-Stout
#5	520	Bowdoin	22-2	02/22 vs. Hamilton
#6	487	Amherst	21-3	02/22 vs. Bates
#7	464	Whitman	22-2	def. Whitworth, 77-74 OT; 02/21 at Linfield
#8	438	Wartburg	21-3	won at #10 Loras, 79-76 OT; 02/22 at Dubuque
#9	409	Transylvania	22-2	LOST at Hanover, 57-64; 02/22 vs. Bluffton
#10	402	Loras	21-3	LOST to #8 Wartburg, 76-79 OT; 02/22 at Nebraska Wesleyan
#11	373	Bethel	23-1	def. #14 Augsburg, 71-55; 02/22 vs. St. Benedict
#12	351	Baldwin Wallace	22-2	def. Mount Union, 80-53; 02/22 at Otterbein
#13	328	Trinity (Texas)	20-3	02/20 at Schreiner; 02/22 vs. Schreiner
#14	304	Augsburg	20-4	LOST at #11 Bethel, 55-71; 02/22 vs. Gustavus Adolphus
#15	298	Oglethorpe	24-1	02/23 vs. Hendrix
#16	256	Scranton	21-3	won at Drew, 59-40; 02/22 vs. Goucher
#17	233	Mary Hardin-Baylor	19-4	02/20 at Howard Payne; 02/22 at Sul Ross State
#18	195	Texas-Dallas	19-4	02/20 vs. Hardin-Simmons; 02/22 vs. McMurry
#19	126	Austin	20-3	02/21 at Centenary (La.); 02/23 at St. Thomas (Texas)
#20	111	St. Thomas	19-5	def. St. Olaf, 67-48; 02/22 vs. St. Mary's (Minn.)
#21	107	Chicago	17-5	02/21 at #28 New York University; 02/23 at Brandeis
#22	83	DeSales	20-4	def. Eastern, 81-58; 02/22 at Delaware Valley
#23	58	Trine	20-4	def. Kalamazoo, 94-44; 02/22 at #2 Hope
#24	52	Messiah	20-4	def. Lebanon Valley, 54-46; 02/22 at #34 Albright
#25	37	John Carroll	20-4	won at Otterbein, 68-59; 02/22 vs. Wilmington

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	36	Haverford	21-3	def. Swarthmore, 55-36; 02/22 at Johns Hopkins
#27	35	Christopher Newport	21-4	won at Southern Virginia, 74-64
#28	32	New York University	18-4	02/21 vs. #21 Chicago; 02/23 vs. Washington U.
#29	30	Gettysburg	20-4	LOST to Dickinson, 70-78; 02/22 vs. Muhlenberg
#30	29	George Fox	17-6	02/21 vs. Lewis and Clark; 02/22 at Puget Sound
#31	19	UW-La Crosse	18-6	def. UW-River Falls, 71-56; 02/22 at UW-Eau Claire
#32	12	Benedictine	22-2	won at Concordia-Chicago, 78-66; 02/22 at Concordia (Wis.)
#33	11	Catholic	20-4	def. Goucher, 87-55; 02/22 at Drew
#34	7	Albright	21-3	won at Alvernia, 72-57; 02/22 vs. #24 Messiah
#35	2	Albion	20-5	won at St. Mary's (Ind.), 71-59
T#36	1	Ithaca	18-5	02/21 vs. Vassar; 02/22 vs. Bard
T#36	1	William Peace	22-3	02/22 vs. Huntingdon

scottiedawg · February 20, 2020, 01:23:44 PM

Because the gap between each ranking spot is not equal, this was a fun way to visualize the gaps for me:
Tufts, 1.16th place
Hope, 1.84th place
DePauw, 4.88th place
UW-Whitewater, 5.00th place
Bowdoin, 5.20th place
Amherst, 6.52th place
Whitman, 7.44th place
Wartburg, 8.48th place
Transylvania, 9.64th place
Loras, 9.62th place
Bethel, 11.08th place
Baldwin Wallace, 11.96th place
Trinity TX, 12.88th place
Augsburg, 13.84th place
Oglethorpe, 14.08th place
Scranton, 15.76th place
Mary Hardin-Baylor, 16.68th place
Texas-Dallas, 18.20th place
Austin, 20.96th place
St. Thomas, 21.56th place
Chicago, 21.72th place
DeSales, 22.68th place
Trine, 23.68th place
Messiah, 23.92th place
John Carroll, 24.52th place
Haverford, 24.56th place
Chris Newport, 24.60th place
NYU, 24.72th place
Gettysburg, 24.80th place
George Fox, 24.84th place
UW-LaCrosse, 25.24th place
Benedictine, 25.52th place
Catholic, 25.56th place
Albright, 25.72th place
Albion, 25.92th place
Ithaca, 25.96th place
William Peace, 25.96th place

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · February 20, 2020, 03:59:38 PM

The second Regional Rankings are out, conference races are finishing up while some tournaments have begun. The frenetic finish to the regular season has begun.

On Thursday's Hoopsville, we chat to a few teams who are either leading their conference standings or could shake them up in their final scheduled games. Plus, a true #whyd3 way of approaching the season - giving back to the community while playing the game.

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Sacha Santimano, Eastern Nazarene women's coach (WBCA Center Court)
- Matt Hunter, York (Pa.) men's coach
- Kevin Broderick, Nazareth men's coach
- Shanan Rosenberg, Linfield men's coach

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Thursday's show LIVE starting at 7:00 pm ET in the following ways:
- Main page: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville
- Show page: http://bit.ly/3bW9d6M (or www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2019-20/feb20)
- Facebook Live Simulcast: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
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- Team1 Sports: www.team1sports.com/Hoopsville/
- Team1 Sports app (Android TV, Amazon Fire, Apple TV, Roku) - you will either find it under the "live" section or search for the Hoopsville channel
Monday's show primarily covers the Atlantic, Central, South, and Northeast Regions. All men's coaches appear in the NABC Coach's Corner. And all guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.

Thursday's show primarily covers the East, Great Lakes, Mid-Atlantic, and West Regions while also featuring a women's coach in the WBCA Center Court segment. All men's coaches appear in the NABC Coach's Corner. And all guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.

If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to hoopsville@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options.

Please also consider helping us out. We are accepting donations to the show - which many of you have asked about. We have updated the goal to $7,500 by the end of Monday, March 2. We are currently at $3,712.52.

We will be raising the goal after tonight!

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VT-Alum-NOVA · February 20, 2020, 04:05:32 PM

Quote from: scottiedawg on February 20, 2020, 01:23:44 PM
Because the gap between each ranking spot is not equal, this was a fun way to visualize the gaps for me:
Tufts, 1.16th place
Hope, 1.84th place
DePauw, 4.88th place
UW-Whitewater, 5.00th place
Bowdoin, 5.20th place
Amherst, 6.52th place
Whitman, 7.44th place
Wartburg, 8.48th place
Transylvania, 9.64th place
Loras, 9.62th place
Bethel, 11.08th place
Baldwin Wallace, 11.96th place
Trinity TX, 12.88th place
Augsburg, 13.84th place
Oglethorpe, 14.08th place
Scranton, 15.76th place
Mary Hardin-Baylor, 16.68th place
Texas-Dallas, 18.20th place
Austin, 20.96th place
St. Thomas, 21.56th place
Chicago, 21.72th place
DeSales, 22.68th place
Trine, 23.68th place
Messiah, 23.92th place
John Carroll, 24.52th place
Haverford, 24.56th place
Chris Newport, 24.60th place
NYU, 24.72th place
Gettysburg, 24.80th place
George Fox, 24.84th place
UW-LaCrosse, 25.24th place
Benedictine, 25.52th place
Catholic, 25.56th place
Albright, 25.72th place
Albion, 25.92th place
Ithaca, 25.96th place
William Peace, 25.96th place

If only NCAA did this same type of accuracy in their regional rankings.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · February 20, 2020, 04:15:55 PM

Quote from: VT-Alum-NOVA on February 20, 2020, 04:05:32 PM
If only NCAA did this same type of accuracy in their regional rankings.

I think you are confusing what scottiedawg was doing versus what the the women's basketball committee (or any national committee) does.

He's showing how the points accumulated by the voters average out to a more specific "place" than what the traditional slots sometimes indicate. It is another tool when explaining to people why the points are sometimes a better indication of a team's movement up or down than the actual placement.

The regional rankings have nothing to do with this... even though you keep trying to shoehorn the two together for somereason.

VT-Alum-NOVA · February 20, 2020, 04:34:15 PM

I was lamenting that NCAA does NOT provide how close #1 and #2 ranked teams in a region, may be with a point system of something. maybe they have some math methodolgy for primary criteria.