Top 25 discussion

[Darryl Nester]

After a long hiatus, I was a little worried, but I'm happy to report that my program still works correctly (once I updated my openssl and wget installations).

How They Fared (So Far)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	617	Hope	0-0	11/12 vs. Edgewood; 11/13 vs. TBA; 11/19 vs. Finlandia; 11/20 vs. #21 Baldwin Wallace
#2	555	East Texas Baptist	0-0	11/19 at T#50 Emory; 11/20 vs. Ferrum
#3	522	Trine	0-0	11/13 vs. Kenyon; 11/14 vs. Denison; 11/17 at Benedictine; 11/20 at UW-Stout; 11/21 at T#38 UW-Eau Claire
#4	431	Whitman	0-0	11/08 at Eastern Ore.; 11/20 at T#50 Austin
#5	429	Messiah	0-0	11/12 vs. #33 Salisbury; 11/13 vs. TBD; 11/16 at Gettysburg; 11/19 vs. St. Vincent; 11/20 vs. TBD

(There are 54 women's teams in the poll - fewer than the 64[!] teams on the men's side. A full report will be posted later.)

[Flying Dutch Fan]

After a long hiatus, I was a little worried, but I'm happy to report that my program still works correctly (once I updated my openssl and wget installations).

How They Fared (So Far)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	617	Hope	0-0	11/12 vs. Edgewood; 11/13 vs. TBA; 11/19 vs. Finlandia; 11/20 vs. #21 Baldwin Wallace
#2	555	East Texas Baptist	0-0	11/19 at T#50 Emory; 11/20 vs. Ferrum
#3	522	Trine	0-0	11/13 vs. Kenyon; 11/14 vs. Denison; 11/17 at Benedictine; 11/20 at UW-Stout; 11/21 at T#38 UW-Eau Claire
#4	431	Whitman	0-0	11/08 at Eastern Ore.; 11/20 at T#50 Austin
#5	429	Messiah	0-0	11/12 vs. #33 Salisbury; 11/13 vs. TBD; 11/16 at Gettysburg; 11/19 vs. St. Vincent; 11/20 vs. TBD

(There are 54 women's teams in the poll - fewer than the 64[!] teams on the men's side. A full report will be posted later.)

Thanks Darryl - greatly appreciated!!!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The 19th season of Hoopsville debuts tonight!

Tune in as we talk to the two preseason #1 teams in Division III basketball plus two of the top experts in the division. We also take a look at how the season may unfold and how the opening weekend was just a teaser of things to come.

We talk some of the things that we are looking forward to and the question marks we will be considering from now until champions are claimed in March.

Tune in starting at 7:00 PM ET right here - www.d3hoopsville.com

Guests on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline include:
- Brian Morehouse, head coach of #1 Hope women's basketball
- Gordan Mann, D3hoops.com Senior Editor
- Josh Merkel, head coach of #1 Randolph-Macon men's basketball
- Pat Coleman, D3hoops.com Editor in Chief

[Darryl Nester]

There are only a few results so far, but out of sheer impatience, here's my first report, with a list of all of the upcoming contests through 11/28 (the last day of competition before the first in-season poll).

How They Fared (So Far)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	617	Hope	0-0	11/12 vs. Edgewood; 11/13 vs. TBA; 11/19 vs. Finlandia; 11/20 vs. #21 Baldwin Wallace; 11/23 vs. Grace Bible
#2	555	East Texas Baptist	1-1	def. (n) #29 Trinity (Texas), 76-70 OT; LOST to (n) #32 Rhodes, 82-88; 11/19 at T#50 Emory; 11/20 vs. Ferrum; 11/23 vs. T#50 Austin
#3	522	Trine	0-0	11/13 vs. Kenyon; 11/14 vs. Denison; 11/17 at Benedictine; 11/20 at UW-Stout; 11/21 at T#38 UW-Eau Claire; 11/27 at Ohio Northern
#4	431	Whitman	1-0	won at Eastern Ore., 78-65; 11/20 at T#50 Austin; 11/22 at #15 Texas-Dallas
#5	429	Messiah	0-0	11/12 vs. #33 Salisbury; 11/13 vs. TBD; 11/16 at Gettysburg; 11/19 vs. St. Vincent; 11/20 vs. TBD; 11/23 vs. Albright
#6	420	Simpson	0-0	11/12 vs. T#38 Gustavus Adolphus; 11/20 at Northwestern (Minn.); 11/23 at #43 Loras; 11/26 vs. T#38 UW-Eau Claire; 11/27 at UW-La Crosse
#7	335	Tufts	0-0	11/13 vs. Rowan; 11/14 vs. Vassar; 11/16 at University of New England; 11/20 vs. Brandeis; 11/21 vs. T#45 Transylvania
#8	320	John Carroll	0-0	11/12 vs. Case Western Reserve; 11/13 vs. Carnegie Mellon; 11/20 vs. Albion; 11/23 vs. Denison
#9	318	DeSales	0-0	11/13 at #12 Scranton; 11/16 at Muhlenberg; 11/19 vs. Gwynedd Mercy; 11/23 at Moravian
#10	315	Wartburg	1-0	def. Fontbonne, 84-37; 11/17 at UW-Stout; 11/20 vs. UW-Platteville; 11/23 at Dubuque
#11	311	Wheaton (Ill.)	1-0	won at Benedictine, 60-53; 11/12 vs. Maryville (Tenn.); 11/13 vs. Otterbein; 11/16 at Lakeland; 11/19 vs. Chapman; 11/20 at Redlands; 11/23 vs. Dominican
#12	286	Scranton	0-0	11/11 at Marywood; 11/13 vs. #9 DeSales; 11/17 at #42 Ithaca; 11/20 vs. King's; 11/21 vs. Wilkes
#13	280	Bowdoin	0-0	11/13 vs. Nazareth; 11/14 at University of New England; 11/16 vs. Southern Maine; 11/19 vs. Worcester State; 11/20 vs. TBD; 11/23 at University of New England; 11/28 vs. MIT
#14	258	Hardin-Simmons	2-0	won at Texas Lutheran, 93-81; won at Schreiner, 72-61; 11/12 vs. #29 Trinity (Texas); 11/23 at McMurry; 11/26 vs. Nebraska Wesleyan; 11/27 at Colorado College
#15	254	Texas-Dallas	0-0	11/11 at T#50 Austin; 11/18 vs. Belhaven; 11/22 vs. #4 Whitman
#16	249	Amherst	0-0	11/12 vs. #37 Oglethorpe; 11/13 vs. Coast Guard; 11/15 vs. T#40 Rhode Island College; 11/18 vs. Gordon; 11/21 at New Jersey City
#17	247	UW-Oshkosh	2-0	won at Finlandia, 60-53; def. Lakeland, 79-40; 11/12 vs. Bethany Lutheran; 11/13 vs. Minnesota-Morris; 11/17 at Edgewood; 11/19 vs. Alma; 11/20 vs. St. Norbert
#18	212	UW-Whitewater	1-0	def. Calvin, 70-60; 11/12 vs. Concordia (Wis.); 11/13 vs. Benedictine; 11/17 at Augustana; 11/20 at #44 Illinois Wesleyan; 11/23 at Carroll; 11/27 at #43 Loras
#19	210	DePauw	0-0	11/12 vs. Alma; 11/13 vs. Calvin; 11/16 vs. #22 Millikin; 11/21 vs. Kenyon; 11/27 vs. Washington U.; 11/28 vs. Illinois Wesleyan or Rose-Hulman
#20	169	Christopher Newport	2-0	def. Southern Virginia, 88-51; def. Bridgewater (Va.), 109-59; 11/12 vs. Gettysburg; 11/13 at Goucher; 11/19 vs. Lebanon Valley; 11/20 vs. TBD; 11/28 vs. Franklin and Marshall
#21	162	Baldwin Wallace	1-0	won at Case Western Reserve, 72-59; 11/19 vs. Olivet; 11/20 at #1 Hope; 11/23 vs. La Roche
#22	157	Millikin	3-0	def. Westminster (Mo.), 83-63; def. Greenville, 100-57; def. Beloit, 77-49; 11/16 at #19 DePauw; 11/19 at #34 Chicago; 11/20 vs. #35 Wisconsin Lutheran; 11/28 at Illinois College
#23	121	Smith	1-0	won at Castleton, 78-57; 11/13 vs. Vassar; 11/14 vs. Rowan; 11/19 vs. Mitchell; 11/20 vs. TBD; 11/28 vs. Trinity (Conn.)
#24	108	George Fox	0-0	11/11 at Mount St. Mary; 11/13 at Trinity (Conn.); 11/14 at Emerson; 11/20 at Whittier; 11/21 at Pomona-Pitzer
#25	92	Millsaps	0-1	LOST to Belhaven, 54-56; 11/13 vs. T#50 Emory; 11/14 vs. LaGrange; 11/16 vs. Centenary (La.); 11/20 vs. St. Thomas (Texas); 11/21 vs. MUW; 11/27 vs. Agnes Scott; 11/28 vs. University of Dallas

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	83	Piedmont	2-0	def. Berry, 70-61; def. #37 Oglethorpe, 84-77; 11/12 vs. Averett; 11/13 vs. #31 N.C. Wesleyan; 11/27 vs. Alma; 11/28 at T#45 Transylvania
#27	79	Bethel	1-0	def. UW-River Falls, 92-47; 11/12 vs. UW-Platteville; 11/13 vs. UW-Stout; 11/20 vs. T#38 Gustavus Adolphus; 11/23 vs. Augsburg
#28	64	St. John Fisher	1-0	won at Hilbert, 86-25; 11/13 at Hamilton; 11/18 vs. Rochester Tech; 11/20 vs. Rochester; 11/27 vs. Widener; 11/28 at TBD
#29	63	Trinity (Texas)	1-1	LOST to (n) #2 East Texas Baptist, 70-76 OT; won at T#40 Mary Hardin-Baylor, 74-61; 11/12 at #14 Hardin-Simmons; 11/13 at McMurry; 11/19 vs. Linfield; 11/20 at Pacific
#30	56	Babson	1-0	def. Eastern Connecticut, 67-60; 11/13 vs. Keene State; 11/14 vs. Clarkson; 11/17 vs. T#40 Rhode Island College; 11/20 at Roger Williams; 11/23 vs. Brandeis
#31	55	N.C. Wesleyan	1-0	won at Mid-Atlantic Christian, 81-36; 11/12 vs. Huntingdon; 11/13 at #26 Piedmont; 11/16 vs. T#45 Lynchburg; 11/20 at Virginia Wesleyan; 11/21 vs. Mary Washington; 11/23 at Salem
#32	35	Rhodes	1-1	LOST at T#40 Mary Hardin-Baylor, 72-73; def. (n) #2 East Texas Baptist, 88-82; 11/12 vs. MUW; 11/14 vs. T#50 Austin; 11/17 vs. University of the Ozarks; 11/21 vs. Washington U.; 11/27 vs. University of Dallas; 11/28 vs. Agnes Scott
#33	34	Salisbury	1-0	won at Virginia Wesleyan, 80-54; 11/12 vs. #5 Messiah; 11/13 vs. TBA; 11/16 vs. Catholic; 11/20 vs. Goucher; 11/23 vs. Stevenson; 11/27 vs. Rowan
#34	31	Chicago	1-0	won at Carthage, 76-52; 11/13 vs. Augsburg; 11/19 vs. #22 Millikin; 11/21 vs. #35 Wisconsin Lutheran; 11/23 vs. UW-Platteville; 11/27 at Calvin
#35	29	Wisconsin Lutheran	0-0	11/12 vs. Martin Luther; 11/13 vs. Washington U.; 11/17 at Carthage; 11/20 at #22 Millikin; 11/21 at #34 Chicago
#36	28	New York University	1-0	won at Kean, 89-58; 11/13 vs. Alvernia; 11/20 vs. Thiel; 11/21 vs. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps; 11/23 vs. Vassar; 11/28 vs. Cabrini
#37	19	Oglethorpe	0-2	LOST to (n) LaGrange, 72-80; LOST at #26 Piedmont, 77-84; 11/12 vs. #16 Amherst; 11/13 at Gordon; 11/19 vs. Maryville (Tenn.); 11/20 vs. Franklin; 11/24 vs. Asbury; 11/28 vs. LeTourneau
T#38	18	Gustavus Adolphus	0-0	11/12 at #6 Simpson; 11/17 vs. Luther; 11/20 at #27 Bethel; 11/23 vs. St. Olaf
T#38	18	UW-Eau Claire	0-0	11/12 vs. UW-Superior; 11/13 vs. Ripon; 11/21 vs. #3 Trine; 11/23 at St. Norbert; 11/26 vs. #6 Simpson; 11/27 vs. Edgewood
T#40	17	Mary Hardin-Baylor	1-1	def. #32 Rhodes, 73-72; LOST to #29 Trinity (Texas), 61-74; 11/26 at Colorado College; 11/27 vs. Nebraska Wesleyan
T#40	17	Rhode Island College	0-1	LOST to MIT, 47-61; 11/13 at Endicott; 11/15 at #16 Amherst; 11/17 at #30 Babson; 11/20 vs. Bard; 11/23 vs. Bridgewater State; 11/28 at Wesleyan
#42	16	Ithaca	0-0	11/13 at Hartwick; 11/17 vs. #12 Scranton; 11/19 at Cortland; 11/20 at Keuka
#43	15	Loras	1-0	def. Elmhurst, 91-62; 11/12 vs. UW-Stout; 11/13 vs. UW-Platteville; 11/23 vs. #6 Simpson; 11/27 vs. #18 UW-Whitewater
#44	11	Illinois Wesleyan	0-0	11/12 at Wittenberg; 11/13 at Capital; 11/20 vs. #18 UW-Whitewater; 11/27 vs. TBD; 11/28 vs. TBD
T#45	10	Lynchburg	1-1	def. Averett, 77-48; LOST at Mary Washington, 57-66; 11/12 vs. William Peace; 11/16 at #31 N.C. Wesleyan
T#45	10	St. Lawrence	1-0	won at SUNY Potsdam, 68-60; 11/13 vs. SUNYIT; 11/16 vs. Plattsburgh State; 11/20 vs. Hamilton
T#45	10	Transylvania	1-0	won at Spalding, 80-47; 11/11 at Eastern Kentucky; 11/19 at Eastern Nazarene; 11/21 at #7 Tufts; 11/27 vs. Berea; 11/28 vs. #26 Piedmont
#48	8	Central	0-1	LOST at Grinnell, 66-80; 11/12 vs. Augustana; 11/13 vs. Westminster (Mo.); 11/16 at Fontbonne
#49	5	SUNY New Paltz	1-0	def. Mount St. Mary, 76-60; 11/12 at Rochester; 11/13 vs. Southern Virginia; 11/20 at Misericordia; 11/27 at Union
T#50	4	Austin	0-0	11/11 vs. #15 Texas-Dallas; 11/14 at #32 Rhodes; 11/17 vs. McMurry; 11/20 vs. #4 Whitman; 11/23 at #2 East Texas Baptist
T#50	4	Emory	0-1	LOST at LaGrange, 57-66; 11/13 vs. #25 Millsaps; 11/14 at Birmingham-Southern; 11/19 vs. #2 East Texas Baptist; 11/21 vs. Ferrum; 11/26 vs. LeTourneau
T#50	4	Marymount	1-0	def. Kean, 67-47; 11/13 at Stevenson; 11/14 vs. #53 Johns Hopkins; 11/19 vs. Eastern; 11/20 vs. TBA; 11/23 at Shenandoah; 11/28 vs. Rochester
#53	3	Johns Hopkins	1-1	LOST at Susquehanna, 41-65; won at York (Pa.), 42-31; 11/12 vs. TBD; 11/12 at Stevenson; 11/13 vs. TBD; 11/14 vs. T#50 Marymount; 11/20 at Muhlenberg; 11/23 vs. Gettysburg
#54	1	Williams	0-0	11/13 vs. Skidmore; 11/14 vs. Massachusetts College; 11/16 at Vassar; 11/20 vs. Framingham State; 11/23 vs. Springfield

[ronk]

 Interesting games in the Mid-Atlantic today:
  #5 Messiah @  Grinnell-offense Gwynedd-Mercy
  #9 DeSales @ #12 Scranton

[saratoga]

If Gwynedd ever learned or had the desire to play some semblance of defense, they'd certainly win a few more games.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

If Gwynedd ever learned or had the desire to play some semblance of defense, they'd certainly win a few more games.

It's System ball.  You have to think of defense differently.  The goal is not to make it difficult for your opponent to score, but to get a turnover or else encourage them to score a two-point bucket very quickly.

[saratoga]

How many national titles has Grinnell won with their offense?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

How many national titles has Grinnell won with their offense?

Well, you know, a national title is not the goal for the vast majority of D3 teams.

[saratoga]

Fair enough...
How many NCAA appearances?
How many conference championships?
Surely that's a goal of 90% of teams beginning a new season.
Hey, if it's fun for the kids with no expectations of wins, then have a ball.
However, if you want to win a few along the way, then your defense needs to be more than a hope & a prayer.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Fair enough...
How many NCAA appearances?
How many conference championships?
Surely that's a goal of 90% of teams beginning a new season.
Hey, if it's fun for the kids with no expectations of wins, then have a ball.
However, if you want to win a few along the way, then your defense needs to be more than a hope & a prayer.

I think you should take a little more time to understand what they're trying to do.  It's worked very well at Grinnell and Greenville in terms of competitiveness - and its allowed a lot more kids to have a college basketball experience.  Defense is THE focal point of the System - that's the main misunderstanding - but it typically takes most of a season to really get into a groove.

I do think it's harder to get right for d3 women - the schools that have had some success tend to be higher level, because of the kind of athleticism it requires is a bit more difficult to recruit at a lower tier program.  Gwynedd will have their work cut out for them, for sure.

You don't have to like it.  Lots of people don't.  I have my suspicions that it will work out for Gwynedd. I do get a little frustrated when people criticize something new because it doesn't fit expectations.  Saying "there's no defense" is the easiest way to tell someone hasn't taken the time to understand what they're trying to do.  That's all I'm calling out.

The System teams that do it well spend the vast majority of their practice time on defense, because perfectly that particular press is really hard.  Its one thing to say they need more time to figure out of the defense or they don't have the players to make the defense work, but it's a bit insulting to how hard the players do work on defense to say they're not trying.

[RogK]

With 430 (give or take) women's D3 teams, any given program can be expected to reach the national championship game once every 215 years and win a title once every 430 years.
That's kind of depressing, ain't it?
That said, there's no reason a team shouldn't try to win as much as they can. The exception could be a team with only 7 or 8 players, who'd be content to make it through each game without losing players to fouls or injury.

[ronk]

Interesting neighborhood games in the Mid-Atlantic today:
  #5 Messiah @  Gettysburg
  #9 DeSales @ Muhlenberg

[Royals85]

Two Upsets tonight 11/15/21-Gettysburg takes down #5 Messiah 65-55 and Muhlenberg takes down #9 Desales 65-61!!!

[PauldingLightUP]

No. 3 Trine loses the second of two in Western Wisconsin. Blugolds led most of the way and were able to hit a few key contested layups and free throws late after Trine tied the game.