Top 25 discussion

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Hoopsville is live on the air tonight starting at 7:00 PM ET.

We will have the following guests:

• Todd McGuinness, No. 24 Case Western Reserve men's coach
• Margaret White, Marymount women's coach
• Top 25 Women's Double-Take with Brendan Gulick and Scott Peterson
• Jason Leone, No. 25 Oswego State men's coach
• Rich Murphy, Redlands women's coach

Plus the latest from the NCAA Convention and much more.

It is a jam packed show! Tune in starting at 7:00 PM ET here: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2021-22/jan20 - the show will be available on demand and the audio podcast will be available shortly after the show as well.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Maybe we could discuss what the regional rankings would be as of now, at least the regions that one follows most closely. I'd propose region 5 for myself, for example. After refining those rankings in the next 3 weeks, we could see how close we r to the 1st official rankings then.

Isn't this usually discussed in the Pool C chat room?

[ronk]

Maybe we could discuss what the regional rankings would be as of now, at least the regions that one follows most closely. I'd propose region 5 for myself, for example. After refining those rankings in the next 3 weeks, we could see how close we r to the 1st official rankings then.

Isn't this usually discussed in the Pool C chat room?

Possibly, but the regional rankings include the pool A candidates also, as opposed to excluding them.

[gordonmann]

Scottiedawg:

I assume we'll do the calculations again here but it's one of the few parts of our site that I have no knowledge of, other than it's existence.

[gordonmann]

One more thought crossed my mind today -- the emergence of the spoiler in D3 women's hoops. They need a cooler name. Maybe something like Bounty Hunter? Boba Fett is cool again, right?

In a Galaxy Far Far Away (two years ago), the really good Division III women's basketball teams very rarely lost to teams outside the Top 30 or so. They lost to each other or not at all, even in the NCAA Tournament.

This year we have a couple teams that I think are Bounty Hunters -- someone who could bust a Tournament bracket by beating a home team hosting in the First Round, and not just someone hosting because the men's team somewhere else had hosting priorities for the first weekend.

Because these are Bounty Hunters and not Jedi Knights, they are probably not Top 25 teams. They will not go on long Tournament runs. They will fall into a Sarlac pit and lose by double digits in the second round.

Think Bethany Lutheran.

The Vikings beat UW-Oshkosh early in the season and I got irrationally excited about the Vikings.

Could they go 25-0? Should I look at flights to Mankato, Minnesota to cover the NCAA Tournament? Would my wife mind if we renamed our first child Hanna Geistfeld Mann?

Then they lost to St. Benedict by 19.

Then I went through this mood swing again when BLC beat UW-Eau Claire.

That's it! They're back! Get in here, Hanna Geistfeld Mann, and we're going to do the Skol chant!

And then they lost four in a row. I think BLC is really good and really exciting, but not really deep enough to go deep in the Tournament. But, man, I'd hate to face them in the first round.

So who else is a Bounty Hunter?

Maybe Bates? If Bates beats Tufts this weekend and bags Amherst, Tufts and Bowdoin in the same year, they should get their own Mandalorian-style miniseries. But they aren't Jedi Knights because they lost to WPI and Susquehanna. They have to reach at least the Sweet 16 and maybe the Elite 8 to earn this totally arbitrary accomplishment I just made up.

Maybe UW-Eau Claire is really a Bounty Hunter? They have four losses, but they have two wins over Trine and Simpson!

If Albion beats Hope or Trine the second time around, the Britons are Bounty Hunters.

The Banana Slugs of UC Santa Cruz are Bounty Hunters, though I also have them on my Top 25 ballot. There are slug-shaped characters in the Star Wars universe? Something cooler than Jabba the Hutt, I hope?

Who else?

[scottiedawg]

I think Eau Claire and LaCrosse fit that bill. Some high highs along with low lows.

I like the Bates call.

Perhaps Wisconsin Lutheran, Augsburg, MHB?

[Baldini]

One more thought crossed my mind today -- the emergence of the spoiler in D3 women's hoops. They need a cooler name. Maybe something like Bounty Hunter? Boba Fett is cool again, right?

In a Galaxy Far Far Away (two years ago), the really good Division III women's basketball teams very rarely lost to teams outside the Top 30 or so. They lost to each other or not at all, even in the NCAA Tournament.

This year we have a couple teams that I think are Bounty Hunters -- someone who could bust a Tournament bracket by beating a home team hosting in the First Round, and not just someone hosting because the men's team somewhere else had hosting priorities for the first weekend.

Because these are Bounty Hunters and not Jedi Knights, they are probably not Top 25 teams. They will not go on long Tournament runs. They will fall into a Sarlac pit and lose by double digits in the second round.

Think Bethany Lutheran.

The Vikings beat UW-Oshkosh early in the season and I got irrationally excited about the Vikings.

Could they go 25-0? Should I look at flights to Mankato, Minnesota to cover the NCAA Tournament? Would my wife mind if we renamed our first child Hanna Geistfeld Mann?

Then they lost to St. Benedict by 19.

Then I went through this mood swing again when BLC beat UW-Eau Claire.

That's it! They're back! Get in here, Hanna Geistfeld Mann, and we're going to do the Skol chant!

And then they lost four in a row. I think BLC is really good and really exciting, but not really deep enough to go deep in the Tournament. But, man, I'd hate to face them in the first round.

So who else is a Bounty Hunter?

Maybe Bates? If Bates beats Tufts this weekend and bags Amherst, Tufts and Bowdoin in the same year, they should get their own Mandalorian-style miniseries. But they aren't Jedi Knights because they lost to WPI and Susquehanna. They have to reach at least the Sweet 16 and maybe the Elite 8 to earn this totally arbitrary accomplishment I just made up.

Maybe UW-Eau Claire is really a Bounty Hunter? They have four losses, but they have two wins over Trine and Simpson!

If Albion beats Hope or Trine the second time around, the Britons are Bounty Hunters.

The Banana Slugs of UC Santa Cruz are Bounty Hunters, though I also have them on my Top 25 ballot. There are slug-shaped characters in the Star Wars universe? Something cooler than Jabba the Hutt, I hope?

Who else?

That's really good stuff.

Maybe Redlands with a win over Wartburg?

Ithaca could be a tough first out also, don't think they have played a bad game yet.

Carroll has the win over UW-Whitewater and seems to be hitting a groove. 

[CNU85]

Add Mary Washington. They've had some tough games of recent, but when they are on their game, they can be really good.

[gordonmann]

Carroll's a great one! Redlands, too.

Incidently this is a list no coach wants to be on because they want to compete all the way through the last weekend in Pittsburgh.

[ronk]

Scottiedawg,
Very good initial appearance on hoopsville by you; looking forward to the additional coverage you'll be providing of the D3 women's game.
  Heard u say in the wrapup that u attended the 2006 Hope championship Final 4; would have been there myself, save for a family need at the time. It was back-to-back Final 4s for Hope's 2 opponents there(Scranton and Southern Maine) and I watched the videostream of the semi(arguably, the "championship") where the outcome was within a missed 3-pt attempt of going to OT.   

[ronk]

1st run at prospective regional rankings for region 5(the old Mid-Atlantic minus CNU,Salisbury,UMW among others) after 1/22 contests; in-region competition includes your region(5, in this case), or within 500 miles, or admin region(#2, New York and PA), or conference; by those, I'll amend my original data to exclude Messiah's victory over Depauw and York's loss to Loras :

1. Messiah 13-2
2. Scranton  15-2
3. Catholic 13-1
4. Gettysburg 12-2
5. Johns Hopkins  13-2
6. York(PA)  14-2
7. Elizabethtown  12-3
8. Drew  12-2
9. Washington(MD)  11-4
    Haverford  12-5

[Royals85]

Top 25 should get a little shake up this week you think,#6  Falls to #18  Eau Claire(good win),#7 Amherst lost at home against an 8-7 team(Ugly loss)Bates next woman up in d3hoops takes a loss to #10 Tufts,#11BW loses to #12J..C(even but a loss is a loss)oh Salisbury hung tough with #2 team CNU tonight.Salisbury if thry get in can be a tough out 1st road 4 teams that lost to Messiah by 9,Scranton by 8 ,Catholic was 14 I think and CNU by 6!Can be a surprise come Tournament time.I think a couple more but some great games in D3 love this game!!!

[Roundball999]

Top 25 should get a little shake up this week you think,#6  Falls to #18  Eau Claire(good win),#7 Amherst lost at home against an 8-7 team(Ugly loss)Bates next woman up in d3hoops takes a loss to #10 Tufts,#11BW loses to #12J..C(even but a loss is a loss)oh Salisbury hung tough with #2 team CNU tonight.Salisbury if thry get in can be a tough out 1st road 4 teams that lost to Messiah by 9,Scranton by 8 ,Catholic was 14 I think and CNU by 6!Can be a surprise come Tournament time.I think a couple more but some great games in D3 love this game!!!

Salisbury playing well but with 4 losses already and 3 games left with MW and CNU, road to making the tournament looks pretty sketchy.

[scottiedawg]

UW-Eau Claire mystifies me. They did not impress me against River Falls, but then go and beat UW-Whitewater (took a lot of punches and came back strong again and again too)? I think UW-Whitewater should lose some voting points, but not sure they should drop that many spots.

I watched the first half of CNU vs. Salisbury, and CNU had that pretty well in hand. I'm not sure if Salisbury + 10 in the 4th was more of a garbage time surge back (but not really affecting their win probability at any point), or if CNU actually struggled.

Transylvania was able to get the win over Rose-Hulman, but not sure they looked like the #3 team in the nation. Though don't think Simpson did anything this week to warrant a big move up. They just took care of business.

I think Trine's win over Albion should see them gain voting points over the three teams directly ahead of them. Just like with UWW, not sure if Trine gaining points results in them moving spots.

NYU with a very solid win @ WashU. Let's see if they can get another road win over Chicago.

Whitman with a great week. 4 wins. 2 road wins. Pacific is strong. George Fox and Lewis & Clark aren't pushovers.

ETBU with a great road win over Hardin-Simmons.

Nice week for Ohio Northern.

I'll continue to pound the table for Carroll. They dismantled IWU.

Salisbury 2 loss week probably results in them losing their lone top 25 vote. But both losses were competitive, to good teams, one on the road.

Puget Sound with a nice week, especially the win over Pacific (rough week for Pacific, losing to 2 good teams). (Dave is vidicated!)

Not a great loss for Redlands against CMS.

The vote gaps get kinda big, but Whitman, NYU, Tufts, John Carroll all made strong cases for moving ahead of Amherst. Especially with Amherst losing at home to Hamilton. I'd be fading Amherst hard.

Marietta looked great against Capital, but stumbled on the road against Ohio Northern. I'm not sure that's that bad of a loss though.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Almost Complete)

Two games to be updated (both currently in the third quarter): Trinity vs Colorado College and UC Santa Cruz at Cal Lutheran.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	625	Hope	16-0	def. Olivet, 96-31; won at St. Mary's (Ind.), 101-41; 01/22 vs. Alma postponed
#2	592	Christopher Newport	16-0	won at Methodist, 89-39; won at T#42 Salisbury, 63-57
#3	555	Transylvania	14-0	won at Hanover, 84-60; won at Rose-Hulman, 72-68 OT
#4	526	Simpson	15-1	01/19 vs. Central postponed; def. Coe, 89-53
#5	518	Trine	13-2	won at #33 Albion, 69-56
#6	481	UW-Whitewater	16-2	won at UW-La Crosse, 60-48; LOST at #18 UW-Eau Claire, 71-81
#7	477	Amherst	10-2	won at Williams, 73-59; LOST to Hamilton, 43-52
#8	473	Whitman	16-1	def. Pacific, 57-47; def. Linfield, 65-48; won at George Fox, 66-59; won at Lewis and Clark, 69-46
#9	424	New York University	14-0	won at Washington U., 85-68; won at Chicago, 72-64
#10	380	Tufts	13-2	def. New Jersey City, 65-61; 01/19 vs. Stevenson canceled; def. #26 Bates, 63-52
#11	335	Baldwin Wallace	11-3	LOST at #12 John Carroll, 65-68; def. Wilmington, 61-30
#12	318	John Carroll	13-2	def. #11 Baldwin Wallace, 68-65; def. Muskingum, 93-42
#13	281	Wartburg	12-2	won at Loras, 84-82
#14	266	DePauw	14-2	won at Denison, 78-42; def. Wooster, 88-31
#15	223	Springfield	16-0	won at Middlebury, 69-56; def. Wellesley, 73-18
#16	186	Marietta	15-2	def. Capital, 91-69; LOST at T#42 Ohio Northern, 54-58
#17	180	Hardin-Simmons	12-3	LOST to #20 East Texas Baptist, 51-56; 01/22 vs. Belhaven canceled
#18	165	UW-Eau Claire	14-4	def. UW-River Falls, 62-49; def. #6 UW-Whitewater, 81-71
#19	163	Bowdoin	14-3	01/18 vs. Maine-Presque Isle postponed; won at Colby, 67-55
#20	135	East Texas Baptist	12-3	won at #17 Hardin-Simmons, 56-51; won at McMurry, 81-66
#21	133	Wisconsin Lutheran	13-0	def. Marian, 63-46; def. Concordia-Chicago, 77-49
#22	103	Mary Washington	14-3	LOST at Swarthmore, 60-65; def. Emory and Henry, 61-37
#23	99	UW-Oshkosh	12-4	def. UW-Platteville, 66-56; LOST at UW-River Falls, 64-73
#24	92	Mary Hardin-Baylor	14-2	won at Concordia (Texas), 67-58; won at University of the Ozarks, 73-67
#25	62	St. John Fisher	14-1	won at Alfred, 67-28; def. Houghton, 104-36

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	56	Bates	11-4	LOST at #10 Tufts, 52-63
#27	48	Texas-Dallas	9-3	01/17 at LeTourneau canceled; won at Sul Ross State, 60-54; won at Howard Payne, 68-56
#28	42	Messiah	14-2	def. Widener, 77-53; won at Hood, 70-34; def. Eastern, 77-37
#29	35	Trinity (Texas)	14-2	def. St. Thomas (Texas), 79-51; def. Colorado College, 72-57
#30	34	Catholic	13-1	won at Juniata, 79-43; won at Moravian, 71-65 OT
#31	24	Smith	12-1	def. #34 WPI, 56-53; def. Clark, 79-60
#32	19	Roger Williams	15-0	def. Gordon, 85-31; won at Endicott, 57-56; def. Wentworth, 59-35
#33	17	Albion	14-4	LOST to #5 Trine, 56-69; def. Adrian, 71-54
#34	10	WPI	13-2	LOST at #31 Smith, 53-56; won at Mount Holyoke, 75-26
#35	9	Millikin	14-4	LOST at Illinois Wesleyan, 51-73; won at Augustana, 78-69
T#36	8	Augsburg	12-3	def. St. Scholastica, 74-39; def. Hamline, 80-70
T#36	8	Gettysburg	12-2	def. Dickinson, 58-44; won at Washington College, 70-61
T#36	8	Scranton	15-2	def. T#42 Salisbury, 63-55; won at Moravian, 69-51; def. Elizabethtown, 75-70
#39	7	Gustavus Adolphus	11-3	won at Carleton, 69-48; LOST to Bethel, 47-53
#40	3	Redlands	11-3	won at Pomona-Pitzer, 80-72; def. La Verne, 80-51; LOST at Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, 70-74
#41	2	UC Santa Cruz	9-2	01/20 vs. Simpson (Cal.) canceled; won at Cal Lutheran, 70-64
T#42	1	Ohio Northern	11-4	won at Heidelberg, 54-39; def. #16 Marietta, 58-54
T#42	1	Puget Sound	14-2	def. Pacific Lutheran, 70-58; def. Pacific, 78-66
T#42	1	Salisbury	12-4	LOST at T#36 Scranton, 55-63; LOST to #2 Christopher Newport, 57-63