Top 25 discussion

[deiscanton]

I tuned in right when it looked like CNU won before the technicals. I saw them line up to shake hands. Then the craziness started. I missed the entire game until that point. 6 players fouled out. 2 technicals against CNU coach. I'm not sure what happened during the game but it seems to have been a physical and tough game.

Definitely it was a physical and tough game and the referees were calling fouls on both teams in reaction to it.  Unfortunately, the box score does not list the referees who called the game, but the way that the referees were calling yesterday's women's basketball game between CNU and Wash & Lee was very similar to the way that the referees who were assigned to the Christopher Newport men's basketball game vs Brandeis last Monday January 2 called it.

Obviously, both women's basketball teams had trouble adjusting to the way they were playing defense in reaction to the tight calls of the officials and the fouls piled up.   It is going to wear on the head coaches of both teams during the game.  The difference is, the head coach of the team has a responsibilty to respectfully question the calls and calmly ask for clarifications and explanations throughout the game-- the head coach cannot go about cursing and berating the officials for what he or she believes is a wrong call.

CNU coach Bill Broderick blew his top, went over the edge, and violated the principles of good sportsmanship nearing the end of the first overtime.  That, in my opinion, is what happened.  Coach Broderick called a timeout during the first overtime period after Wash & Lee had made free throws.  Unfortunately, the refs concluded that CNU had inbounded the ball before coach Broderick called timeout, so the Captains did not get the benefit of advancing the ball to the front court.  Correct or not, that was the call.

Under the rules of women's college basketball, the game is not over until after the final score is approved by the officials at the scorer's table and the entire officiating crew leaves the court.  Once that is done, the jurisdiction of the referees over the game is finished.  Until then, technical fouls can still be assessed even though the clock has hit zero.

At the end of the first overtime, when CNU took the lead just at the buzzer, even though the teams were lining up to shake hands, Coach Broderick definitely looked like he was still cursing at the officials for their officiating throughout the contest.  The officials were within their rights to give Coach Broderick the first technical foul, since they had not yet left the court.  Wash & Lee hits their free throws to tie the score and send it to a second OT, and the score at the end of the first OT is approved by the officials to send the game to a second OT.

After the tie score at the end of the first OT got approved at the scorers table, Coach Broderick started cursing and berating the officials again and loses his temper again.  Despite the rest of the CNU coaching staff trying to calm Coach Broderick down, the second technical foul against Coach Broderick gets assessed and he is ejected from the game.  That is what my conclusion is from watching the on-demand replay.

Given the way the timing of the technical foul calls happened, the first technical foul occurred at the end of the first OT, and the second technical foul occurred at the start of the second OT.   If the two technical fouls had been called at the end of the first OT before the tie score had been approved, the game would have most likely ended with Coach Broderick causing CNU to lose the game in the first OT to Wash & Lee.

It is definitely worth watching the entire game on replay from start to finish, and it is available on demand on the ODAC Sports Network (which is available on Roku and smart TVs),  and on the Wash & Lee athletics webpage.

I will be rewatching the game this morning. 

[saratoga]

Great summation of the events.
Just watched the last few minutes of regulation & the OT's & although the refs should have probably not blown their whistles on many of the basic hand check fouls, teeing up Broderick was the right call.
In fact, he should have been hit with his second right after the first one when he walked half way onto the court screaming like a wild man as the W&L player was about to shoot the first set of technicals.
Lost in translation of this fiasco was the calm & steady shooting touch of the young lady from W&L who nailed the 4 free throws under immense pressure.
Too bad they were not all considered prior to the start of the second OT.
I've always wondered how Broderick gets away with his theatrics game after game with no consequences.
Perhaps the zebra society will now give him a bit more attention.

[CNU85]

Nice recap and comments. I totally agree that Broderick lost his cool and should've been tossed. It was a crazy ending and even if you think things are not right and unfair there is a difference between respectfully, professionally disagreeing and totally going bonkers. Setting proper examples in the face of adversity presents huge coaching moments. Those moments were missed last night.

That's why I never liked Bobby Knight.

[Caz Bombers]

CNU's AD should probably suspend the head coach for a game or two. He's lucky his players bailed him out from a self-inflicted L.

[Pat Coleman]

CNU's AD should probably suspend the head coach for a game or two. He's lucky his players bailed him out from a self-inflicted L.

With the caveat that I don't really know what was said and have only watched the video, I agree that it might be worth considering.

[gordonmann]

New poll posted.

https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2022-23/week6

Tufts exits the poll after appearing in 126 consecutive rankings, the third longest active streak in Division III women's basketball. The longest streak belongs to Amherst (now 208) and that will likely be on the line when the Mammoths play Tufts this weekend. Hope has the second longest streak at 136.

[scottiedawg]

Biggest Vote Gainers
UW-Whitewater: +116
Trinity (Conn): +112
Ohio Northern: +91
Rochester: +78
Hardin-Simmons: +76
Puget Sound: +70
Babson: +56
Trine: +48
Mary Hardin-Baylor: +33
Smith: +25
Calvin: +22
Elizabethtown: +18
DeSales: +14
Washington & Jefferson: +13
Mary Washington: +12
Messiah: +11
Trinity (Texas): +10
Scranton: +6
Millikin: +6
UW-Oshkosh: +5
La Verne: +3
UW-LaCrosse: +2
Pacific (Ore): +2
Wartburg: +1

Biggest Vote Decliners
Springfield: -144
Amherst: -141
Chicago: -103
UW-Eau Claire: -101
Loras: -85
Tufts: -71
UC Santa Cruz: -45
Emory: -36
Bowdoin: -24
Gustavus Adolphus: -19
East Texas Baptist: -19
Ithaca: -10
Cortland St.: -8
UW-River Falls: -8
Baldwin-Wallace: -7
Whitman: -5
New York University: -1
Transylvania: -1
Christopher Newport: -1
Hope: -1

(I'm getting lazy, no inline week results for top gainers/decliners this week)

[Augie2020]

I will say this Massey likes Mid west teams alot.Wartburg ,Eau Claire ,Whitewater,Chicago.They are really hot on Wartburg for some reason anybody have an answer why they are always high on the mid west teams?TY

[Roundball999]

I will say this Massey likes Mid west teams alot.Wartburg ,Eau Claire ,Whitewater,Chicago.They are really hot on Wartburg for some reason anybody have an answer why they are always high on the mid west teams?TY

Massey doesn't really 'like" anyone, it is purely a mathematical model that uses past results as inputs.  I don't pretend to understand the theory and algorithms in depth but it does seem to take a time based approach, e.g. recent results are more important than past results and it appears to me that strength of schedule (as calculated by Massey not NCAA method) is very influential in their final ratings.  I can't answer your "Midwest" question other than to speculate that the leagues of the teams you mention tend to be traditionally strong and deep which over the course of a season would make an average win more valuable and an average loss less impactful for those teams.  Some info on Massey Ratings approach and theory is here:  https://masseyratings.com/theory/massey.htm

[Augie2020]

Thank you !!

[scottiedawg]

Massey doesn't really 'like" anyone, it is purely a mathematical model that uses past results as inputs.

Extremely well said.

I do believe Massey uses SOS as an input pretty strongly, and the WIAC schools often play non-D3 which pumps up their SOS?

And for Wartburg, if any of my above comments are true, their SOS benefits from playing 2 WIAC teams.  In addition, all 4 of Wartburg's losses are to teams Massey grades very highly, which likely leads to less of a "hit" on Wartburg.

I would imagine that if you were able to suss out how voters in the D3Hoops and WBCA polls voted based on inputs, those voters weight win% higher relative to SOS than Massey does. Just a guess.

[Pat Coleman]

You'd probably find a mix among our voters. No idea what the WBCA voters might think or say as I do not get to see their ballots.

WIAC played one exhibition against UW-Green Bay and one game against D-II Concordia-St. Paul this year. I wonder if your assessment is based off WIAC football schedules or something, because it doesn't hold up for women's basketball.

[scottiedawg]

I am woefully short on historical knowledge.  I seem to recall a discussion of Massey and the WIAC and someone (maybe Ryan) mentioned a possible or known reason and I thought it had to do with non-D3 games? (Though admittedly there aren't many of those this year as you stated)

[Augie2020]

A couple upsets tonight-#1 NYU at Chicago 57-71,#25/26Tufts at #16/21Amherst 56-54(Nice backdoor play) N/R Middlebury at N/R,#25 Bowdoin 84-68 and on Wednesday 11th #7  Baldwin wallace lost to #22/18 Ohio Northern 51-53 and another top 25 game was #19/30 Elizabethtown at #6/6 Scranton final was 67-87.Should be some shakeup in the Ladies top 25 poll this week !

[Augie2020]

Crazy weekend Did I see Albion beat #5 hope- 69-53?You can tell first full week of Conference play!