Top 25 discussion

Started by Pat Coleman, February 02, 2005, 12:01:07 AM

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RogK

She may seem unusually tall, but if her legs were any shorter, her feet wouldn't reach the ground and then where would we be.

Augie2020

#2896
When conference play starts taking place you never know what will happen.Great game in the Mac freedom tonight #6Desales upset by Steven's by 1 what a great game!!This is why d3 is so great in any sport these kids play for the love of the game!


Darryl Nester

#2898
How They Fared - Complete except for UCSC/Pomona-Pitzer (tips at 4:00pm EST)

Top 25

Rank   Pts   TeamW-L   Results
#1615Trinity (Texas)19-0def. Centenary (La.), 96-46; def. St. Thomas (Texas), 96-38
#2590Transylvania17-0def. Hanover, 69-44; 01/21 vs. Rose-Hulman canceled
#3585Christopher Newport17-0won at Southern Virginia, 77-66
#4552Scranton17-0won at Drew, 63-50; won at Juniata, 62-34
#5499Smith16-1won at WPI, 67-64 OT; won at Clark, 64-36
#6459DeSales16-1LOST at Stevens, 48-49; def. FDU-Florham, 83-22
#7448Rochester13-3LOST at Brandeis, 71-77; LOST at #8 New York University, 67-80
#8435New York University13-2def. #27 Emory, 76-63; def. #7 Rochester, 80-67
#9390Hope16-2def. St. Mary's (Ind.), 121-51; def. Alma, 89-37
#10387Chicago15-1won at Carnegie Mellon, 89-63; won at Case Western Reserve, 63-49
#11361Babson15-1def. Hamilton, 71-64; def. Clark, 70-42; def. Coast Guard, 66-50
#12358Baldwin Wallace16-1def. John Carroll, 81-60; won at Wilmington, 66-61
#13338Trine14-3def. Albion, 68-41
#14303Ohio Northern15-2def. Heidelberg, 67-31; LOST at Marietta, 61-68
#15300Hardin-Simmons16-2won at T#34 East Texas Baptist, 67-56; won at LeTourneau, 77-59
#16258UW-Eau Claire16-3def. T#34 UW-Stout, 85-59; won at #33 UW-La Crosse, 64-60 OT
#17254Trinity (Conn.)16-1def. Roger Williams, 58-41; won at Wesleyan, 59-43
#18198Puget Sound15-2def. Pacific Lutheran, 68-38; def. Lewis and Clark, 101-56
#19160UW-Whitewater14-5LOST to UW-Platteville, 49-65; won at UW-River Falls, 65-54
#20146Ithaca14-2won at Skidmore, 73-61; won at Union, 50-39
#21113Loras14-4LOST at T#39 Wartburg, 51-63; won at Buena Vista, 88-61
#2276Calvin14-3def. Kalamazoo, 70-29; won at St. Mary's (Ind.), 90-66
#2352Mary Hardin-Baylor13-4def. Concordia (Texas), 65-57
#2446Messiah16-2won at Stevenson, 67-47; def. Widener, 67-52
#2536Washington and Jefferson16-1def. Westminster (Pa.), 65-47; 01/21 vs. Thiel postponed


Others receiving votes
Rank   Pts   TeamW-L   Results
#2623Gustavus Adolphus14-2def. Hamline, 84-55; def. St. Olaf, 91-44; won at Carleton, 87-40
#2722Emory12-3won at Rhodes, 74-50; LOST at #8 New York University, 63-76; won at Brandeis, 77-58
#2819Amherst13-5def. Williams, 50-40; LOST to Hamilton, 47-50
T#2918Cortland15-3def. T#41 Bowdoin, 70-66; LOST at SUNY New Paltz, 67-71; won at SUNY Oneonta, 52-45
T#2918Millikin15-3won at Elmhurst, 94-43; def. Augustana, 81-63
#3114La Verne17-1won at Occidental, 59-57; def. Whittier, 70-33
#3210UC Santa Cruz13-4won at Cal Lutheran, 57-44; won at Pomona-Pitzer, 78-59
#336UW-La Crosse15-4def. UW-River Falls, 63-36; LOST to #16 UW-Eau Claire, 60-64 OT
T#345East Texas Baptist13-5LOST to #15 Hardin-Simmons, 56-67; def. McMurry, 73-61
T#345Elizabethtown15-1won at Catholic, 64-58; def. Goucher, 84-55
T#345Tufts12-5def. Bates, 84-75 OT
T#345UW-Oshkosh13-5won at UW-Stevens Point, 58-38; def. T#34 UW-Stout, 75-73
T#345UW-Stout13-6LOST at #16 UW-Eau Claire, 59-85; LOST at T#34 UW-Oshkosh, 73-75
T#393Springfield12-5won at Wellesley, 68-34
T#393Wartburg13-4def. #21 Loras, 63-51
T#412Berea17-1won at Maryville (Tenn.), 85-59
T#412Bowdoin13-6LOST at T#29 Cortland, 66-70; def. Husson, 80-76; def. Colby, 52-43
#431Washington U.11-5LOST at Case Western Reserve, 64-74; won at Carnegie Mellon, 77-74

scottiedawg

# Biggest Vote Gainers
Messiah: +52
Chicago: +50
Washington & Jefferson: +47
Babson: +43
NYU: +40
Mary Hardin-Baylor: +39
Hardin-Simmons: +38
Puget Sound: +34
Hope: +33
Baldwin Wallace: +31
UW-Eau Claire: +28
Gustavus Adolphus: +27
Ithaca: +24
Calvin: +23
Trine: +21
Elizabethtown: +21
Millikin: +19
Smith: +15
Trinity (Conn): +15
Wartburg: +13
Berea: +11
UW-Oshkosh: +9
La Verne: +7
Scranton: +4
Mary Washington: +3
Stevens: +3
Trinity (Texas): +1
Tufts: +1
St. John Fisher: +1

# Biggest Vote Decliners
Rochester: -195
Ohio Northern: -107
UW-Whitewater: -107
DeSales: -106
Loras: -91
Amherst: -19
Cortland: -14
UW-La Crosse: -6
East Texas Baptist: -5
Transylvania: -3
UC Santa Cruz: -3
Emory: -2
Bowdoin: -2
WashU: -1

scottiedawg

Looking only at losses (and also not looking at who the losses were to):

1/23/23
#9
#11 ORV

1/25/23
11
14
#13 ORV

1/26/23
22

1/27/23
16
17
#16 ORV
#5 ORV

1/28/23
9
10
23

Darryl Nester

How They Fared (Complete)

Top 25

Rank   Pts   TeamW-L   Results
#1616Trinity (Texas)19-0IDLE
#2587Transylvania19-0def. Manchester, 69-54; won at Bluffton, 65-42
#3585Christopher Newport20-0won at Marymount, 69-52; won at Pratt, 107-34; won at New Jersey City, 88-64
#4556Scranton19-0def. Moravian, 79-56; won at Goucher, 83-51
#5514Smith18-1def. #35 Tufts, 70-60; won at Mount Holyoke, 85-24
#6475New York University15-2def. Carnegie Mellon, 77-52; def. Case Western Reserve, 73-62
#7437Chicago16-2won at #30 Emory, 66-61; LOST at #16 Rochester, 75-85
#8423Hope18-2won at #11 Trine, 83-69; def. Albion, 78-49
#9404Babson16-3LOST to #15 Trinity (Conn.), 61-65; won at Mount Holyoke, 103-25; LOST at T#37 Springfield, 61-71
#10389Baldwin Wallace17-2won at Heidelberg, 47-37; LOST to Marietta, 49-59
#11359Trine15-4LOST to #8 Hope, 69-83; won at Olivet, 71-39
#12353DeSales18-1won at King's, 66-28; def. Lycoming, 77-32
#13338Hardin-Simmons18-2won at Sul Ross State, 90-89; def. Howard Payne, 95-53
#14286UW-Eau Claire16-4LOST at UW-River Falls, 70-81
#15269Trinity (Conn.)19-1won at #9 Babson, 65-61; def. Hamilton, 55-37; def. Amherst, 51-45
#16253Rochester14-4LOST to Washington U., 67-75; def. #7 Chicago, 85-75
#17232Puget Sound16-3LOST at Whitman, 50-61; won at Whitworth, 80-52
#18196Ohio Northern17-2won at Wilmington, 74-66; def. Mount Union, 90-47
#19170Ithaca16-2def. William Smith, 71-42; def. RPI, 59-39
#2099Calvin16-3def. Benedictine, 81-55; def. Adrian, 61-47
#2198Messiah18-2won at York (Pa.), 52-41; def. Albright, 55-41
#2291Mary Hardin-Baylor14-5LOST to East Texas Baptist, 61-67; def. LeTourneau, 89-45
#2383Washington and Jefferson17-2def. Chatham, 59-56; LOST at St. Vincent, 53-57
#2453UW-Whitewater15-5def. UW-La Crosse, 66-36
#2550Gustavus Adolphus16-2won at Bethel, 66-53; won at Augsburg, 55-43


Others receiving votes
Rank   Pts   TeamW-L   Results
#2637Millikin16-3def. North Central (Ill.), 86-60
#2726Elizabethtown17-1def. Drew, 74-53; def. Susquehanna, 79-52
#2822Loras15-4def. Simpson, 85-60
#2921La Verne18-1won at Caltech, 55-52 OT
#3020Emory12-5LOST to #7 Chicago, 61-66; LOST to Washington U., 57-60
#3116Wartburg15-4won at Dubuque, 75-49; won at Simpson, 79-63
#3214UW-Oshkosh15-5won at UW-Platteville, 60-59 OT; def. Finlandia, 83-49
#3313Berea18-1def. Covenant, 68-47
#347UC Santa Cruz15-4def. Pacific Union, 81-26; def. Bethesda, 94-35
#356Tufts14-6LOST at #5 Smith, 60-70; def. Williams, 64-50; def. Middlebury, 66-59
#364Cortland17-3def. SUNY Potsdam, 75-50; def. Plattsburgh State, 81-44
T#373Mary Washington17-3won at Lynchburg, 85-53
T#373Springfield13-6LOST to MIT, 58-61; def. #9 Babson, 71-61
T#373Stevens17-3def. Delaware Valley, 70-54; won at Wilkes, 57-36
#401St. John Fisher16-2def. Nazareth, 84-66; won at Elmira, 74-51; won at Alfred, 72-45

scottiedawg

# Biggest Vote Increasers
Trinity (Conn): +115
Ithaca: +90
Ohio Northern: +82
Hardin-Simmons: +72
Messiah: +61
Calvin: +56
DeSales: +47
Gustavus Adolphus: +39
Hope: +37
UW-Whitewater: +35
WashU: +31
Elizabethtown: +26
Wartburg: +20
Cortland: +13
Millikin: +11
La Verne: +10
UW-Oshkosh: +8
Berea: +8
Stevens: +7
Smith: +5
Concordia Moorhead: +5
Trinity (Texas): +2
UC Santa Cruz: +2
Albertus Magnus: +1


# Biggest Vote Decliners
Babson: -159
Baldwin Wallace: -113
Mary Hardin-Baylor: -80
Puget Sound: -76
UW-Eau Claire: -71
Washington & Jefferson: -55
Chicago: -51
Trine: -49
NYU: -46
Rochester: -40
Emory: -18
Loras: -3
Springfield: -3
Mary Washington: -3
Christopher Newport: -2
Transylvania: -1

Darryl Nester

#2903
How They Fared (Complete)
Trinity at Colorado College is ... somewhere in the second half? Live stats and stream don't seem to be working.
Quote from: Darryl Nester on February 05, 2023, 08:36:58 PM
Quote from: monsoon on February 05, 2023, 07:33:10 PM
For some reason your program lists Calvin as idle on both the men's and women's side even though they definitely played this week.

Oops, that's an issue that arose around Christmas. I've been too lazy to try to track down the reason for the issue, and had been correcting it manually ... but forgot to do so this time.

I'll edit to correct.

Top 25

Rank   Pts   TeamW-L   Results
#1618Trinity (Texas)20-1won at Schreiner, 71-60; LOST at Colorado College, 64-70
#2586Transylvania21-0won at Franklin, 76-46; def. Defiance, 76-33
#3583Christopher Newport22-0def. Regent University, 96-42; def. #36 UC Santa Cruz, 73-62
#4556Scranton21-0won at Susquehanna, 56-36; def. Catholic, 55-47
#5519Smith20-1def. Wheaton (Mass.), 76-40; def. Coast Guard, 86-57
#6460Hope19-2won at St. Mary's (Ind.), 109-62
#7429New York University17-2won at Carnegie Mellon, 82-50; won at Case Western Reserve, 82-44
#8410Hardin-Simmons19-2won at Texas-Dallas, 67-48
#9400DeSales20-1won at Wilkes, 72-42; won at Misericordia, 67-51
#10386Chicago17-3LOST to #39 Emory, 67-78; def. #18 Rochester, 87-75
#11384Trinity (Conn.)20-2LOST at Williams, 48-49; won at Middlebury, 60-47
#12310Trine16-5LOST at Albion, 62-63; def. Alma, 73-51
#13278Ohio Northern19-2def. Otterbein, 65-54; won at Capital, 69-65
#14276Baldwin Wallace18-3def. Mount Union, 66-40; LOST at Otterbein, 55-58
#15260Ithaca18-2def. Union, 64-48; def. Skidmore, 52-49
#16245Babson18-3def. Emerson, 91-47; def. Wheaton (Mass.), 86-43
#17215UW-Eau Claire16-6LOST to #30 UW-Oshkosh, 57-65; LOST at #23 UW-Whitewater, 52-84
#18213Rochester14-6LOST at T#27 Washington U., 59-64; LOST at #10 Chicago, 75-87
#19159Messiah19-2won at Hood, 70-52
#20156Puget Sound18-3def. Willamette, 67-45; def. George Fox, 61-51
#21155Calvin18-3won at Alma, 77-68; def. Olivet, 89-37
#2289Gustavus Adolphus19-2def. St. Scholastica, 83-52; def. St. Benedict, 83-57; won at Macalester, 69-46
#2388UW-Whitewater17-5won at UW-Stevens Point, 73-64; def. #17 UW-Eau Claire, 84-52
#2452Elizabethtown18-2def. Juniata, 86-44; LOST at Moravian, 70-75
#2548Millikin17-4def. North Park, 70-50; LOST at Wheaton (Ill.), 48-66


Others receiving votes
Rank   Pts   TeamW-L   Results
#2636Wartburg17-4def. Luther, 66-59; def. Nebraska Wesleyan, 83-33
T#2731La Verne20-1def. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, 77-67; won at Chapman, 78-64
T#2731Washington U.15-5def. #18 Rochester, 64-59; def. #39 Emory, 78-61
#2928Washington and Jefferson19-2won at Allegheny, 66-43; def. Franciscan (Ohio), 77-47
#3022UW-Oshkosh17-5won at #17 UW-Eau Claire, 65-57; def. UW-River Falls, 54-44
#3121Berea20-1def. Wesleyan (Ga.), 106-38; won at Huntingdon, 84-69
#3219Loras17-4won at Coe, 69-46; def. Central, 75-47
#3317Cortland18-4def. SUNY Oneonta, 51-47; LOST to SUNY New Paltz, 46-64
#3411Mary Hardin-Baylor15-6LOST at Sul Ross State, 74-77; won at Howard Payne, 85-60
#3510Stevens18-3def. FDU-Florham, 73-46
#369UC Santa Cruz16-5def. (n) Mary Washington, 66-55; LOST at #3 Christopher Newport, 62-73
#376Tufts16-6won at Colby, 59-53; won at Bowdoin, 66-54
#385Concordia-Moorhead18-3def. St. Benedict, 67-56; def. Macalester, 73-57; won at St. Catherine, 67-66
#392Emory13-6won at #10 Chicago, 78-67; LOST at T#27 Washington U., 61-78
T#401Albertus Magnus19-2won at St. Joseph (Conn.), 106-104 3OT; def. Johnson and Wales, 76-54; LOST at Rivier, 70-76
T#401St. John Fisher19-2won at Keuka, 106-29; def. Medaille, 91-53; def. Houghton, 77-56

gordonmann

#2904
In recognition of our new No. 1, here are some notes on this week's Top 25 ranking.

Christopher Newport hops over Transylvania and takes the top spot in our rankings. This is CNU's second time as our No. 1 team, following last season when the Captains entered the NCAA Tournament with the top ranking.

CNU's achievement is unusual because the Captains didn't garner the most No. 1 votes. Transylvania had 13 top nods, two more than the Captains. But voters were a little more divided on Transylvania. For voters who use the "whom have you beaten/whom have you lost to" criteria, the Pioneers have a lighter resume. Their best win is Berea (ARV) and their next best win is probably Concordia (Texas) or Texas-Dallas, which are middle of the ASC.

The last time a team was No. 1 but did not have the most No. 1 votes was the preseason poll for 2019-20 when Amherst had the top spot and Scranton had more No. 1 votes. You can see why that would happen in the preseason, especially in a year where there's not a clear favorite and voters have widely varying opinions of teams that haven't played a game yet.

But it's very rare that this happens during the season. This is just the fifth time in the history of the poll, and it has never happened this late in the season:

* Week 4 of the 2005-06 season: Southern Maine was No. 1, but WashU had the most No. 1 votes
* Week 5 of the 2005-06 season involving those same two teams. Southern Maine eventually consolidated most of the No. 1 votes, entered the Tournament as the favorite, and then lost to Hope in the Final.
* Week 9 of the 2004-05 season: Bowdoin was No. 1 but Messiah had the most No. 1 votes.
* Week 1 of the 2001-02 season: Messiah was No. 1 but WashU had the most No. 1 votes. WashU had beaten the Falcons in the title game the year before

CNU is our fourth different No. 1 this season following Hope, NYU and Trinity (Texas). This is the first time we've had four No. 1s in the same season since 2013-14 when the top spot changed hands from DePauw to Whitman to Thomas More to FDU-Florham after the Devils won the title. Those switches happened over the course of four consecutive rankings.

Wash U. also accomplished a relatively rare feat, jumping from 0 votes last week all the way into the Top 25. As I've mentioned before, when I distribute the information to our voters each week, I include all results from any team that received a vote in the prior poll and then tack on a couple more teams for voters to consider. This week's additions were WashU and SUNY New Paltz.

This is the Bears' 260th appearance in our poll, third most behind Hope and DePauw.

At the other end of the spectrum, La Verne makes its Top 25 debut. The Leopards are spotless against Division III opponents, with their only loss coming to Division I Utah State. La Verne is just the fourth SCIAC team to appear in our rankings, joining Cal Lutheran, Chapman and Claremont-Mudd-Scripps.

One last fun note for you.

Q: What would be the perfect number of votes for Trinity to receive?

A: See how many points the Bantams had at No. 12.

FCGrizzliesGrad

Just to add to those notes... Transylvania was #2 in the preseason poll, is unbeaten, and yet isn't one of the four who have been #1 this year.
Started at #2 behind Hope, then fell to #3 after NYU moved ahead in week 1, then back to #2 when Hope lost in week 4, only to immediately get passed by Trinity (TX) in week 5, NYU fell in week 7 to get the Pioneers once again back to #2, then week 10 Trinity loses but Chris Newport moves ahead and they stay at #2.

I was going to do some homer talk in support of Transylvania, but I think I ended up coming to the conclusion that if I were a voter my #1 would be neither Transy nor CNU but the third unbeaten of Scranton.
.

Football picker extraordinaire
5 titles: CCIW, NJAC, ODAC:S
3x: ASC, IIAC, MIAA:S, MIAC, NACC:S, NCAC, OAC:P, Nat'l
2x: HCAC, ODAC:P, WIAC
1x: Bracket, OAC:S

Basketball
2013 WIAC Pickem Co-champ
2015 Nat'l Pickem
2017: LEC and MIAA Pickem
2019: MIAA and WIAC Pickem

Soccer
2023: Mens Pickem

Roundball999

FWIW, Massey SoS for the top 10 teams are:

72    CNU
165  Transylvania
108  Scranton
81    Trinity
53    Smith
18    NYU
28    Hope
65    Hardin-Simmons
276  Desales
62    Ohio Northern

I suspect the comparatively weak SoS of the top undefeated teams is causing some confusion among voters and splitting some votes.

Augie2020

Roundball:Not sure how massey works but when you go deep into the schedule CNU played one team under 40 and that was Santa Cruz #35,Transylvania played no one under 40 and just one team in the top 100 in massey  Scranton beat #13 Wartburg by 22 neutral court,#31 Tufts by 9 neutral court #34 Ithaca by 20 at home and #38 etown at home by 20.So I will never understand massey and how they work I just don't get how Scranton played all those teams and SOS is still thst high?

Roundball999

Quote from: Augie2020 on February 07, 2023, 12:49:44 PM
Roundball:Not sure how massey works but when you go deep into the schedule CNU played one team under 40 and that was Santa Cruz #35,Transylvania played no one under 40 and just one team in the top 100 in massey  Scranton beat #13 Wartburg by 22 neutral court,#31 Tufts by 9 neutral court #34 Ithaca by 20 at home and #38 etown at home by 20.So I will never understand massey and how they work I just don't get how Scranton played all those teams and SOS is still thst high?

I don't pretend to fully understand Massey, but do know it's just math.  No such thing as an "eye-test" for Massey.  It doesn't cherry pick certain games or opponents, it considers all games and strength of all opponents.  I don't think it pays much (any?) attention to winning margins since that is too subjective and dependent on the coach; we all know that some of the strongest teams could have much higher average winning margins if they played their best players more minutes.  It does seem with Massey that if a team doesn't have a relatively strong SoS compared to other top contenders, it's very hard for that team to climb to the top of the rankings.

More explanation of SoS from Massey here:  https://masseyratings.com/theory/sched.htm

Pat Coleman

Those great opponents are balanced out by King's, Wilkes and two games against Goucher.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.