Top 25 discussion

[jagluski]

Here's some fuel for the fire

Gwynedd Mercy is ranked 25th in yesterday's WBCA USAToday ESPN poll

http://www.wbca.org/DIIICoachesPoll.asp

You mean the poll with 10 voters and only 9 first place votes/9 voters who cast a ballot?

[bbald eagle]

yup, that's the one    Maybe if the tenth voter voted GMC'd  be even higher  or maybe lower  . either way, like I said, fuel for the fire 

[TC HOOPS]

David Collinge : Did I tell you we were ONLY down by 2 at the half to Kean? Sorry NOT everyone is sitting there waiting for my every post like you are. He asked a question I answered it. And I guess it did work since GMC has only gone 24-1 since then. But since you never played or coached you wouldn't get it.

Pat : Thanks for the Massey Ratings. Your right GMC is 43 in the Massey and 42 in the TOP 25. But they have a higher Massey Rating then 11 teams ranked ahead of them. But no big deal, like I said I give up.

I ONLY follow the ESPN coache's poll where GMC is RANKED 25. But I guess those coache's are CLUELESS. Thanks for the fuel bbald eagle.

[Pat Coleman]

Ask them how "No. 1 Chicago" turned out for them.

[gobombers15]

TC, save your energy for Manhattan, you don't want to go toe-to-toe with the Guru. It won't end well.

[hornetiger]

David Collinge : Did I tell you we were ONLY down by 2 at the half to Kean?

Odd, I thought the score at the end of the game mattered than the score at half, maybe I'm missing something.

[Ralph Turner]

David Collinge : Did I tell you we were ONLY down by 2 at the half to Kean? Sorry NOT everyone is sitting there waiting for my every post like you are. He asked a question; I answered it. And I guess it did work, since GMC has only gone 24-1 since then. But since you never played or coached, you wouldn't get it.

Pat : Thanks for the Massey Ratings. Your right GMC is 43 in the Massey and 42 in the TOP 25. But they have a higher Massey Rating than 11 teams ranked ahead of them. But no big deal, like I said, I give up.

I ONLY follow the ESPN coaches' poll where GMC is RANKED 25th. But I guess those coaches' are CLUELESS. Thanks for the fuel bbald eagle.

I am always amazed when someone finds a poll to their liking and then comes to another website to complain why another set of fans/authorities/pundits don't agree with the other poll.

Goodness, TC.  We have had multiple polls forever.  The test of these two polls will be to see whether they reflect the quality of the teams as they are ranked.  At #25, I expect GMC to win easily their first game and take the second game to within 2 possessions, or at least within 4 possessions with 5 minutes left versus NYU.

Does that sound reasonable?  Why don't we compare these two polls after the tourney and see how they reflect the brackets?

For my alma mater, Pat has McMurry at #12.  That suggests that we should beat #30 UPS and then beat our hostesses, #27 George Fox, only to lose to #2 HPU the next weekend.  (Now fans across the country may call that an upset, but no one at McMurry will think it is an upset, only our chance to get them again!  )

I definitely think that a receving votes (#42) GMC should beat Ithaca.  If you beat NYU, you will be on everybody's radar!

Travel Safely!

[TC HOOPS]

Ralph : To me D3 hoops poll means MUCH more then ESPN Coaches poll. I just said that ESPN is the only poll that means something to me because GMC is actually ranked in it. But I agree with everything you said. Goodluck to your team this weekend.

[bearsfan]

The ESPN poll would seem to have more bias than the D3hoops poll does. I am in no way saying GMC shouldn't be ranked or anything as I have not seen them play. I have followed alot of NYU though so maybe I will jump in next week after how they do vs NYU if they beat Ithica.

But if you look at the ESPN poll we can examine a situation I witnessed and has been mentioned a couple of times so far. Chicago was ranked #1 in week 8 of the ESPN poll and then went 2-7 in their last 9 games. They didn't fall out of the top 25 poll until after the 7th loss in week 13 and they still received 7 votes in the latest poll. Also of note is that both Chicago's head coach and Rochester's coach (who Chicago beat once early and took to the wire in their second game) are part of the 10 coaches voting. D3Hoops on the other hand dropped Chicago out after week 11 from their high postion of 4 in week 8 when they had lost 5 of their last 6 including a loss to unranked Emory  and three home losses. They received no votes in the last poll. While Chicago was a very talented team this season, their collapse down the stretch should have dropped them much faster out of the poll than they did in the ESPN poll.

There are other similar situations in the past where coaches polls will sometimes show a bias towards certain teams that the D3hoops does not show and why most people respect rankings in the D3hoops poll more than the ESPN poll. I will always respect 25 voters who try to act unbiasedly based on results over 10 coaches who will always be slightly biased towards voting common opponents a little inflated to try to make their own cases look a little better. Even if you try not to, a coach will always rank a team that beat them soundly a little higher than a team that they have never seen play if they look similar on paper. Just the nature of the beast.

[bbald eagle]

I will always respect 25 voters who try to act unbiasedly based on results over 10 coaches who will always be slightly biased towards voting common opponents a little inflated to try to make their own cases look a little better. Even if you try not to, a coach will always rank a team that beat them soundly a little higher than a team that they have never seen play if they look similar on paper. Just the nature of the beast.

I don't have a dog in the fight about GMC or over which poll is better. I look at both polls. I tend to give the  D3Hoops poll more credibility but I recognize that may be because there is more visibility and activity at this site and familiarity with this site breeds comfort. 

But your argument that coach voters are inherently biased is interesting. D3Hoops has coach voters too. Doesn't your argument subtly suggests that D3Hoops should exclude coaches from its voters since you say coaches are inherently biased? SIDs vote too for D3Hoops. Your argument probably would extend to them as well, wouldn't it? If both were excluded, that would leave only "media members" as voters. Do you think the media are inherently unbiased?

[TC HOOPS]

bbald eagle : I know you don't have a dog in the fight but keep it up, I know I couldn't have said it any better. I just don't see how you can be ranked 3rd in your Region like GMC is and the team that's ranked 4th in the Region, McDaniel is ranked
22nd in the D3 poll while GMC is ranked 42nd. I cried like a baby over this long enough, I just don't get it. I GIVE up. The killer is if GMC get's passed Ethaca and plays NYU and losses everyone will say see I told you GMC should have never been ranked. But how many people go to NYU and win? I can tell you one thing, IF GMC beats Ethaca and gets to play NYU, they will be in a game.

[Ralph Turner]

bbald eagle : I know you don't have a dog in the fight but keep it up, I know I couldn't have said it any better. I just don't see how you can be ranked 3rd in your Region like GMC is and the team that's ranked 4th in the Region, McDaniel is ranked
22nd in the D3 poll while GMC is ranked 42nd. I cried like a baby over this long enough, I just don't get it. I GIVE up. The killer is if GMC get's passed Ethaca and plays NYU and losses everyone will say see I told you GMC should have never been ranked. But how many people go to NYU and win? I can tell you one thing, IF GMC beats Ethaca and gets to play NYU, they will be in a game.

TC, if GMC is within single digits with 5 minutes left, everyone will say that they played a great game!

[TC HOOPS]

Ralph : Too bad that don't put lines out in D3 like they do in D1. If they did and GMC get passed Ethaca, what would the line be, NYU-16? If so give me a DIME on GMC. That's is NYU get's past a tough Ursinus team.

[BachDog]

TC, I think you should probably not look ahead to NYU, in fact I will take a dime that Ithaca straight up beats GMC. They are tough and have some momentum coming into the tournament. I will watch both games on Friday. GMC can score, apparently, but Ithaca has something to prove, i.e., beating a team in the Top 25 (on WBCA, not D3). Ursinus is a tough game, I'll give you that...But...No, I won't even give you that. NYU by 15.

[TC HOOPS]

BachDog : I'll take GMC in a pick against Ithaca for a dime, darn that might pay for my weekend in NEW YORK. I said might. TRUST me GMC is not looking past Ithaca.