Top 25 discussion

[David Collinge]

HOW THEY FARED (week of Jan. 14-20) (COMPLETE)
#   2   Howard Payne (15-0) def. Texas Lutheran 102-22 and def. Schreiner 79-27

HOW THEY FARED (week of Jan. 21-27)       
#   6   McMurry (15-1) won at Hardin-Simmons 68-59, won at Schreiner 81-68, and plays at Texas Lutheran Sat.

Couldn't help but notice the difference in those two Schreiner scores, one from 5 days ago and the other from this evening.  I'm morbidly curious now in the McMurry/TexLu game this weekend.

[Mr. Ypsi]

David, thanks a bunch for doing the "How They Fared" for both the men and women - saves a LOT of time trying to keep track of the national leaders!

But I must say that the men's has been much more exciting than the women's - the women's scores are nearly always blue!  If two top-25 teams hadn't played each other, they would ALL be blue so far this week.)

I can easily remember when the winner in women's games routinely had 2-5 times the points of the loser, so vast progress has been made.  But I just don't think the sheer numbers of talented women players has yet allowed the relative parity of the men.  One more 'generation', and I suspect the "How They Fared" boards will look a lot more similar to one another.

[David Collinge]

You're welcome, Chuck, I'm glad you find it useful.  It's more difficult than it probably appears, if only in the avoidance of error, something I still need to improve on.

I agree with you about the parity issues, both that they've improved and still have a ways to go.  Ralph has made this point before.  We do still see scores like 102-22 from time to time (check out some of the scores Kean has put up) but not nearly as frequently as in the past, and not nearly as frequently as I still see in high school girls' games around where I live (and even those are improving.)

Another reason the women's scoreboard tends to be "bluer" than the men's is that the top teams are more spread out than on the men's side.  In any given week, the men's top 25 will be more than half CCIW, WIAC, UAA, NESCAC, and ODAC; in other words, there's usually a number of good games between top 25 teams each week as ranked conference foes square off.  Here, that's less often the case.   There's the UAA, of course, and to a lesser extent the WIAC, and the OAC (although the OAC seems a bit down this year), but generally there seem to be more conferences represented in the women's poll, and therefore fewer Top 25 matchups. 

Look at the current poll, for example.  On the men's side, there are 15 conferences represented, four of them (UAA, WIAC, CCIW, and ODAC) with three teams each.  In the women's poll, however, there's just one conference with three teams (WIAC, and one of them is #25), and 19 conferences represented in 25 slots.  Now that we're in conference play, generally speaking teams don't play outside their conferences.  That means that 14 current women's top 25 teams are unlikely to play another top 25 team, as they are the only ranked team in their conference.  For the men, this number is 9, and just four of those are in the top 15.  This week we have six games between ranked men's teams, vs. just one between ranked women's teams. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

David, I don't know how it may appear to others, but I know how difficult it is.  Perhaps I should have clarified: it saves ME a lot of time; you, not so much!

Your point about the conferences is a good one, though that, too, probably largely goes back to the parity issue.  But intra-top 25 games explains only a (small?) part of the difference.  With the men, any team in the top 100-125 is a very legitimate threat to beat all but perhaps the top 5 (especially if at home).  With the women, that depth of teams just isn't there yet.  My impression is that top 25 men have lost at least twice as many games to unranked teams as top 25 women, but it doesn't seem an important enough issue to manually search all the records!

[David Collinge]

Upset alert:
Emory leads Rochester 49-35 with 9:50 remaining.  Live stats.

UPDATE:  It never fails....draw attention to it, and it immediately goes away, like public nudity. 
Rochester is on a 17-5 run and has closed to 54-50, 2:35 left.
Rochester now in the lead, 55-54, 1:06 left.  Run is 22-5 since 10:20.
Rochester wins 57-54.  Emory with one field goal in last 10:20.  Unbelieveable.

ELSEWHERE:
Wash U leads NYU 56-52, 4:10 left.  Live Stats.
DePauw holding off Hendrix, 71-66, 5:27.  Live Stats.
UPDATES: see below.

[atn alum]

entering sunday, top 25s are 48-3 against non-top 25s this week.

[David Collinge]

HOW THEY FARED (week of Jan. 21-27) (COMPLETE)       
      
#   1   Hope (17-0) def. Alma 72-53 and won at St. Mary's (IN) 82-73
#   2   Howard Payne (17-0) won at Mary Hardin-Baylor 69-45 and won at Concordia-Austin 61-40
#   3   UW-Whitewater (17-1) won at UW-Platteville 85-63 and won at UW-Superior 92-41
#   4   Mary Washington (16-1) def. Villa Julie 71-36 and won at Salisbury 72-54
#   5   Thomas More (17-0) won at St. Vincent 62-50 and def. Bethany 81-55
#   6   McMurry (16-1) won at Hardin-Simmons 68-59, won at Schreiner 81-68, and won at Texas Lutheran 79-39
#   7   Kean (17-1) won at Richard Stockton 107-48 and won at Montclair St. 76-63
#   8   NYU (13-3) lost to Washington U. 66-60 and lost to Chicago 72-68
#   9   Simpson (17-1) won at Central 86-58, def. Buena Vista 99-75, and won at Loras 81-66
#   10   UW-Stevens Point (15-3) lost at #25 UW-Eau Claire 62-54 and lost at UW-Oshkosh 59-42
#   11   Messiah (15-2) def. Lebanon Valley 66-42 and won at Elizabethtown 73-64
#   12   Rochester (15-1) won at Emory 57-54 and won at Case Western Reserve 75-70
#   13   Southern Maine (16-1) won at Mass.-Boston 64-56 and def. Keene St. 58-53
#   14   George Fox (16-1) won at Whitman 55-47 and won at Whitworth 65-49
#   15   DePauw (15-3) def. Hendrix 78-70 and def. Millsaps 78-60
#   16   Amherst (17-1) def. Middlebury 68-59 and lost at Williams 64-59
#   17   Medaille (16-1) won at Hilbert 69-39, def. LaRoche 61-46, and won at Mt. Aloysius 77-51
#   18   Tufts (16-1) won at Wheaton (MA) 61-36, def. Worcester St. 67-58, and won at Bates 61-46
#   19   Illinois Wesleyan (15-2) won at Elmhurst 86-76, def. Robert Morris-Springfield 108-59,* and won at North Central (IL) 82-66
#   20   Randolph-Macon (14-1) def. Washington & Lee 68-57, def. Roanoke 60-58, and def. Hollins 87-26
#   21   William Smith (13-1) won at Skidmore 69-49 and won at Union 78-74 (OT)
#   22   Cortland St. (13-1) won at Albany Pharmacy 86-57, def. New Paltz St. 70-57, and def. Oneonta St. 63-51
#   23   Puget Sound (14-3) won at Lewis & Clark 66-56 and won at Willamette 62-51
#   24   Baldwin-Wallace (15-2) won at Capital 58-40
#   25   UW-Eau Claire (15-3) def. #10 UW-Stevens Point 62-54 and def. UW-La Crosse 60-53

*Game rescheduled from Dec. 16.

[Ralph Turner]

Big game tonight will be McMurry at HPU.  HPU has a big promo this week...Any Brown County student or teacher can get in free to the Brownwood Mausoleum Coliseum for the McMurry game or the HSU game on Saturday.

I expect 2500-3000 fans tonight, including a few that have driven down from Abilene.

(Brownwood, where HPU is located, is the county seat.  There are about 37,000 residents in the county and this will be the big game!)

We are assured by the officials in Brownwood that there will be adequate TP available for the attendees of the big game.   


Official attendance for HPU-McM tonight was 2670.

[goubears89]

Now I am admitted hometown fan here, and I do not know a lot of the ins and outs of the voting process, or whether there are any midseason strength-of-schedule rankings that are considered, but I'm curious as to why Bowdoin is not receiving at least some votes for Top 25? Of their five losses, three came to Top 25 teams (Rochester, USM, Wilmington) and the other to the conference leader. If they knock off Amherst and Tufts, does that change the story? Do the five losses just knock them out of consideration?

I know this is a semantics inquiry, but would welcome insight from David and other poll-ologists.

Off to see a Rochester doubleheader at WashU. Big tailgate and new mascot name unveiling.

[David Collinge]

Now I am admitted hometown fan here, and I do not know a lot of the ins and outs of the voting process, or whether there are any midseason strength-of-schedule rankings that are considered, but I'm curious as to why Bowdoin is not receiving at least some votes for Top 25? Of their five losses, three came to Top 25 teams (Rochester, USM, Wilmington) and the other to the conference leader. If they knock off Amherst and Tufts, does that change the story? Do the five losses just knock them out of consideration?

I know this is a semantics inquiry, but would welcome insight from David and other poll-ologists.

Off to see a Rochester doubleheader at WashU. Big tailgate and new mascot name unveiling.

Judging only by the scores, Bowdoin really got thumped by those Top 25 teams (Rochester by 20, USM by 19, Wilma by 19).  Plus, they don't have any really good, marquee-type wins.  Add to that the top-heavy nature observed in the women's game this year (nobody in the Top 25 with more than 3 losses), and I can see how, if I were a voter, I'd be able to find 25 teams to rank ahead of Bowdoin.  Remember, there's no consolation points: to get a point, you have to be in some voter's Top 25.  If you're #26 on every voter's worksheet, you get 0 points.

And what of the conference leader, Wesleyan?  They've also got 5 losses, and as you note they beat Bowdoin and presently lead the NESCAC (at 3-0, since losses to Bates, Amherst and Williams were officially non-conference games )...and they also have 0 votes.

[David Collinge]

HOW THEY FARED (week of Jan. 28 - Feb. 3) (COMPLETE)       
      
#   1   Hope (18-0) def. Kalamazoo 85-68
#   2   Howard Payne (19-0) def. #6 McMurry 58-46 and def. Hardin-Simmons 67-51
#   3   UW-Whitewater (19-1) won at UW-La Crosse 99-87 (OT) and def. #20 UW-Eau Claire 60-50
#   4   Mary Washington (18-1) def. Hood 90-33 and def. York (PA) 92-64
#   5   Thomas More (19-0) won at Thiel 87-58 and won at Westminster (PA) 69-56
#   6   McMurry (17-2) lost at #2 Howard Payne 58-46 and won at Sul Ross St. 78-59
#   7   Kean (19-1) def. Rowan 89-64 and won at Ramapo 91-36
#   8   Simpson (17-2) lost to Dubuque 73-70
#   9   Messiah (17-2) def. Lycoming 60-47 and won at Widener 67-43
#   10   Rochester (17-1) def. Washington U. 58-55 (OT) and def. Chicago 54-48
#   11   Southern Maine (18-1) won at Plymouth St. 69-50 and won at Mass.-Dartmouth 68-39
#   12   George Fox (17-2) won at Pacific Lutheran 58-35 and lost at #23 Puget Sound 59-43
#   13   DePauw (17-3) won at Southwestern 55-45 and won at Trinity (TX) 68-51
#   14   Medaille (18-1) won at Pitt-Bradford 79-62 and def. Frostburg St. 56-38
#   15   Tufts (18-1) won at Conn. College 59-44 and won at Wesleyan 66-52
#   16   William Smith (16-1) won at Hamilton 70-60, def. Clarkson 91-50, and def. St. Lawrence 75-67
#   17   Amherst (19-2) def. Western New England 64-42, won at Colby 71-44, and lost at Bowdoin 72-61
#   18   Illinois Wesleyan (17-2) won at North Park 83-47 and def. Carthage 80-63
#   19   Randolph-Macon (16-2) won at Bridgewater (VA) 61-53, won at Guilford 66-57, and lost at Emory & Henry 76-68
#   20   UW-Eau Claire (16-4) won at UW-Superior 79-40 and lost at #3 UW-Whitewater 60-50
#   21   NYU (13-5) lost at Emory 80-60 and lost at Case Western Reserve 70-58
#   22   Cortland St. (15-2) lost at Geneseo St. 59-51, def. Morrisville St. 75-56, and def. Oswego St. 60-46
#   23   Puget Sound (16-3) def. Pacific 84-54 and def. #12 George Fox 59-43
#   24   UW-Stevens Point (16-3) def. UW-River Falls 81-46
#   25   Baldwin-Wallace (17-2) def. Mt. Union 65-47 and won at Ohio Northern 62-56

[dballa]

Are Regional Rankings out this week or next?  If I'm not mistaken weren't they first out Wed. Feb. 7th last year?

[Pat Coleman]

Feb. 13 this year, since it's the final three Wednesdays before Selection Sunday.

[dballa]

Makes sense, thanks Pat.

[LogShow]

#17 Puget Sound has put together a nice 10 game win streak...great job!