Bumblin' B's

[ronk]

    If Moravian, Juniata, and/or Merchant Marine win out, they would have records of 17-8, which is higher than .667.

[Ralph Turner]

If Moravian, Juniata, and/or Merchant Marine win out, they would have records of 17-8, which is higher than .667.

Hello, ronk!

Since there are only 3 Pool B bids, I don't think that the Landmark Conference gets more than one Pool B bid.  (Am I correct that there is a post-season tourney?)

We don't have OWP or OOWP for these schools, and it is the in-region winning percentage that we consider.

[ronk]

  Ah,yes,the in-region winning percentage-but I haven't seen the Landmark assigned a region yet;does that mean the region for a school is the one they were in last year(Atlantic - Goucher,Catholic; Mid-Atlantic-Scranton,Moravian,Juniata,Susquehanna,Drew) and Merchant Marine(guessing East or Atlantic)? Might as well get these policy questions out in the open,so there are no surprises.
  Yes the Landmark is having a conference 4-team playoff, although I, personally, would be in favor of skipping it for at least the 2 years where it doesn't have the AQ reward.

[Ralph Turner]

  Ah,yes,the in-region winning percentage-but I haven't seen the Landmark assigned a region yet;does that mean the region for a school is the one they were in last year(Atlantic - Goucher,Catholic; Mid-Atlantic-Scranton,Moravian,Juniata,Susquehanna,Drew) and Merchant Marine(guessing East or Atlantic)? Might as well get these policy questions out in the open,so there are no surprises.
  Yes the Landmark is having a conference 4-team playoff, although I, personally, would be in favor of skipping it for at least the 2 years where it doesn't have the AQ reward.

Ronk, for the Landmark Conference members, the Handbook has all eight assigned to the Middle Atlantic Region, e.g., Capital, Commonwealth, Freedom, Centennial, PnAC, etc.  Also please remember the Administrative Regions (#2 being NY and PA, #1 being DC, MD, DE, NJ, and New England) and the 200-mile radius limit.

2008 Men's Handbook

My bad.

http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2008/2008_d3_w_basketball_handbook.pdf]2008 Women's Handbook

Unfortunately, the Women's Handbook is not as descriptive or as clear in designating the evaluation regions as the men's.

Click on Division III, click on Women's Soccer
It looks like the landmark is in the Mid-Atlantic, except Merchant Marine which is in the Atlantic Region.

[ronk]

Ralph,
   Since this is the women's side, their handbook says that members of the Landmark will be placed in their natural geographic region, but it doesn't define what that is. Is it the NCAA admin region(1 for Catholic,Goucher, and Drew and 2 for the rest of the members) or something else?
    It also states the primary selection criteria will be regional competition. Only in the secondary criteria is the record versus all D3 teams including out-of-region. This is backwards when you're choosing for a national tournament. For example, a couple years ago, Scranton played Simpson and Baldwin-Wallace(2 good teams) on a neutral court in Las Vegas; I submit those 2 games were better evidence of the relative merits of being selected to a national tournament than regional considerations.
   All of this is a preamble to my real concern - how does the 2nd best team in the region convince the committee that they're better than the #1 teams in the other regions for the pool B(and, by extension, pool C) selection when the primary criteria is regional?

[Ralph Turner]

Ralph,
   Since this is the women's side, their handbook says that members of the Landmark will be placed in their natural geographic region, but it doesn't define what that is. Is it the NCAA admin region(1 for Catholic,Goucher, and Drew and 2 for the rest of the members) or something else?
    It also states the primary selection criteria will be regional competition. Only in the secondary criteria is the record versus all D3 teams including out-of-region. This is backwards when you're choosing for a national tournament. For example, a couple years ago, Scranton played Simpson and Baldwin-Wallace(2 good teams) on a neutral court in Las Vegas; I submit those 2 games were better evidence of the relative merits of being selected to a national tournament than regional considerations.
   All of this is a preamble to my real concern - how does the 2nd best team in the region convince the committee that they're better than the #1 teams in the other regions for the pool B(and, by extension, pool C) selection when the primary criteria is regional?

Ahh, Ronk!  The D-III conundrum.     

Seriously, I assume that Pat Coleman has assigned the respective Landmark Conference teams to their respective regions.  It is not unusual for a conference to have members in more than one region, e.g., the UAA, the SCAC, the North East AC.

As we mortals understand the selection process in the ultimate smoke-filled room, the teams are regionally ranked. (The first regional rankings come out on Wednesday)  The Pool A bids are taken off the table and everyone left is moved up.

They then look at the eight teams on the table and look for the best "Pool B team" using the criteria that are listed in the Handbook.  That team is taken off with a Pool B bid.  The teams are then re-evaluated and the second Pool B team is awarded a bid.  The teams are re-evaluated and the process occurs again.

The remaining teams in the country are the considered for the at-large (Pool C bids) on a one-by-one basis until all Pool C bids are awarded.

I am becoming more comfortable with the process, having seen it working now for 5-6 seasons in multiple sports.

In fact, I will bet that the "over-under" on the correct picks that Pat Coleman can make in the final hour before the selections are announced is 62 (of the 63 women's picks).

The brackets are then filled, remembering to consider geographic proximity.

[David Collinge]

The regional alignment of Landmark Conference teams is as follows:
Atlantic: Catholic, Goucher, Merchant Marine
Mid-Atlantic: Drew, Juniata, Moravian, Scranton, Susquehanna

Source:
http://web1.ncaa.org/onlineDir/exec/sponsorship?sortOrder=1&division=3&sport=WBB

(On the men's side, MMA is Atlantic and the other seven are Mid-Atlantic, per the men's handbook and
http://web1.ncaa.org/onlineDir/exec/sponsorship?sortOrder=1&division=3&sport=MBB)

[ronk]

  Ok, thanks, that's the way it was last year when they were in different conferences. Let's see what the 1st regional rankings show on Wednesday.

[Ralph Turner]

From the Daily Dose  (3 bids are awarded) --

Women's basketball
In-region record, followed by overall record

Central Region
No NATHC team is ranked in the Central Region.

Mid-Atlantic Region

3. Scranton 15-4 16-5  (Landmark Conference)

West Region

4. Chapman 13-3 20-3  (Independent)

[Just Bill]

I would suggest the Scranton and Chapman are virtual Pool B locks, while the third bid will come down to the top NATHC team or the #2 in the Landmark.  None of the NATHC teams look like particularily strong contenders right now, although I imagine if Concordia Wisconsin would win the regular season and the NATHC tournament that should give them the third bid.

[gordonmann]

Programming note...

D3hoops.com will broadcast Saturday's Scranton/Moravian doubleheader live from Johnston Hall in Bethlehem...

5:30 pm - Women: Scranton Royals versus Moravian Greyhounds
7:30 pm - Men: Scranton Royals versus Moravian Greyhounds

The broadcast will be available at www.d3hoops.com/audio starting with pregame coverage 10 minutes before tipoff.

[Ralph Turner]

As 2008 winds down, here are the moves that we anticipate in Pool B in 2008-09.

New England Collegiate Conference (NECC):  9 members-- Five teams move out of the North Atlantic Conference (Bay Path, Becker, Elms, Lesley and Wheelock) to join Daniel Webster from the GNAC and the independents Mitchell (a fourth-year provisional in 2008-09), Newbury and Southern Vermont.  At the earliest, this conference will get a Pool A in 2010-11.

Landmark Conference (LAND):  8 members spend one more year in Pool B.

Upper Midwest AC (UMAC):  7 members.  This includes 3 established members (St Scholastica, Northland and Martin Luther) and four new members coming from D-II (UMinn-Morris) and Provisional status (Bethany Lutheran, Crown and Northwestern).  The UMAC should get Pool A in 2010-11.

Independents:  8 members, including New Rochelle NY (East), St Elizabeths NJ and Trinity DC (Atlantic), Rust and UDallas (South), Chapman, UC Santa Cruz and Neb Wesleyan (West).

New independents completing provisional status in August 2008:  2 members -- UMaine-Presque Isle and Salem NC.

I count 34 Pool B schools.  The access ratio probably means that there will be 3 Pool B bids in 2008-09.  There are 10 new schools anticipated in D-III in 2008-09, which means one new bid (64 bids total). 

Northern Athletics Conference (NATHC):  12 13 members move to Pool A in 2008-09.

I anticipate 40 Pool A bids, 3 Pool B bids and 21 Pool C bids.

Corrections are greatly appreciated.  Thanks to Just Bill for catching Alverno in the NATHC.

[Just Bill]

The NATHC actually has 13 members on the women's side (Alverno).

[Just Bill]

Edgewood College knocked Concordia Univ. Wisconsin out of the NATHC semifinals, 72-70 in OT.

Will that knock CUW out of Pool B?  Does Juniata need to beat Scranton today to get that spot?

[WLCALUM83]

Edgewood--in turn--lost to WLC-- in the NAthCon final.