Pool C

[Pat Coleman]

GAVA:

In causing all this discussion with your smart-ass comments about losing points you completely overlooked what I was pointing you to in Ralph's post. There was an adjustment in the way we calculated .6666666 opponents. THAT'S your change.

Sheesh. Don't bring the ODAC women's board smarminess over here.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

GAVA - also be advised that is you played a team earlier in the year that had a stellar record and was worth 15 QOWI points... BUT that team you played fell apart and finished below .500... that game NO longer worth 15 points... but maybe 11!  You could lose points for teams falling apart!

Ask some of the mid-atlantic men's teams about how they thought their wins over Salisbury were going to help them... when they did just the opposite in the end!

[GAVA]

GAVA:

In causing all this discussion with your smart-ass comments about losing points you completely overlooked what I was pointing you to in Ralph's post. There was an adjustment in the way we calculated .6666666 opponents. THAT'S your change.

Sheesh. Don't bring the ODAC women's board smarminess over here.

Excuse you Pat. I have made no SMART ASS remarks ever. I was truly trying to understand how RMC and VWC lost points in the rankings after their first rounds victories in the ODAC tournament. Ralph has explained it that it was due to the weakness of the #7 and #8 seeds in the tourney. I still have no idea what you mean by adjustments and .6666 ?
Your apology is accepted in advance.

[Ralph Turner]

GAVA:

In causing all this discussion with your smart-ass comments about losing points you completely overlooked what I was pointing you to in Ralph's post. There was an adjustment in the way we calculated .6666666 opponents. THAT'S your change.

Sheesh. Don't bring the ODAC women's board smarminess over here.

Excuse you Pat. I have made no SMART ASS remarks ever. I was truly trying to understand how RMC and VWC lost points in the rankings after their first rounds victories in the ODAC tournament. Ralph has explained it that it was due to the weakness of the #7 and #8 seeds in the tourney. I still have no idea what you mean by adjustments and .6666 ?
Your apology is accepted in advance.

GAVA, Pat's computer program (before about Wednesday) took the raw data of schools with records of 12-6, gave them a won-loss percentage of .667 and awarded them the highest stratum in games against them, i.e., a 15 point road win or a 7 point road loss.  As he worked the calculations he found that the NCAA computer was interpreting a 12-6 record as .666666666... and the software logic saw that .66666.... was less than .667 and therefore was worth only 13 points for a road win and 5 points for a road loss.  That threw off the calculations for multiple teams, all thruout the program.

That has been some of the consternation that we fans have had with the NCAA this season. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

GAVA... do you read what people post?

We have been going on the assumption of .667 is the cut off... but since the NCAA takes that all the way down to .66666 that could actually push some teams below a certain point level. Thus... the QOWI up until recently would need to be adjusted and teams would LOSE POINTS!!!

As for beating a #7 or #8... if they are both below .500... the points earned for that victory will certainly be below 10... thus the average your team has FALLS. Because those top teams have QOWI's above 10 most likely. Do you understand the math? The QOWI is an AVERAGE... not a complete total. So if you are averaging a 10.000 and the next game adds only 9 points to your QOWI... your new number is going to be lower... since 9 is below your AVERAGE.

Also... if you played a team earlier in the year and earned 15 points lets say... but they fell apart and are below .500... then you don't get those 15 points anymore... you get maybe 11... you lost four points on your total that the average comes from.

[GAVA]

GAVA... do you read what people post?

As for beating a #7 or #8... if they are both below .500... the points earned for that victory will certainly be below 10... thus the average your team has FALLS. Because those top teams have QOWI's above 10 most likely. Do you understand the math? The QOWI is an AVERAGE... not a complete total. So if you are averaging a 10.000 and the next game adds only 9 points to your QOWI... your new number is going to be lower... since 9 is below your AVERAGE.

Yes I read the post Ralph wrote explaining that the ODAC first round wins were worth only 9 points thus reducing RMC's and VWC's rankings.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Then GAVA - if you read the post I don't understand why you still ask why the top teams lost points!

[scottiedoug]

Ralph!  Should I assume Maryville's losing to Piedmont keeps the Scots out?

[GAVA]

Then GAVA - if you read the post I don't understand why you still ask why the top teams lost points!

I haven't ask since Ralph's explanation. When do Pat and you begin your civility class?

[Ralph Turner]

Ralph!  Should I assume Maryville's losing to Piedmont keeps the Scots out?

Doug, I think that it puts you into contention for a Pool C bid opposite ETBU and maybe HSU.

If VWC and Oglethorpe both win their tourneys tomorrow, then I think those teams end up in the mysterious secret Final Regional Rankings, and you have wins over both!  (That is a criterion.)  Your QOWI is weak. Your won-loss percentage in South Region games is strong.

[Pat Coleman]

Your apology is accepted in advance.

Did you delete a post that read, in part, "how many points are we going to lose today?" It was here a little bit ago but now is gone.

That was what I was referencing.

[GAVA]

Your apology is accepted in advance.

Did you delete a post that read, in part, "how many points are we going to lose today?" It was here a little bit ago but now is gone.

That was what I was referencing.

Nothing deleted. Post # 144. At that point I was wondering if having to play the # 5 and #6 seeds in the semis were also going to cost points. Ralph responded it wouldn't.I am going to overlook your's and Dmac's rudeness as you are both young enough to be my sons.

[Pat Coleman]

RMC wins again tonight and advances to finals.....hope that didn't cost them more points !!

Bingo. I read that the way I read that, yep.

[Pat Coleman]

Through Saturday:

Overall   QOWI   Rk in reg   Team   Region Win%   Overall
1   12.333   1   Bowdoin   0.958 (23-1)   25-1
2   11.731   1   Messiah   0.962 (25-1)   25-2
3   11.500   2   Emmanuel   0.962 (25-1)   27-1
4   11.462   2   Scranton   0.923 (24-2)   25-2
5   11.320   1   New York University   0.920 (23-2)   23-2
6   11.259   3   Southern Maine   0.926 (25-2)   25-2
7   11.192   2   Cortland State   0.923 (24-2)   25-2
8   11.037   4   Fitchburg State   0.926 (25-2)   25-2
9   11.000   3   Rochester   0.800 (20-5)   20-5
10   10.962   1   UW-Stout   0.846 (22-4)   23-5
11   10.815   1   Mary Washington   0.926 (25-2)   26-2
12   10.778   3   Gwynedd-Mercy   0.926 (25-2)   25-2
13   10.773   5   Williams   0.773 (17-5)   20-6
14   10.773   2   Lake Forest   0.955 (21-1)   23-2
15   10.769   2   Kean   0.885 (23-3)   24-3
16   10.750   1   Luther   0.900 (18-2)   22-4
17   10.700   1   DePauw   0.850 (17-3)   24-3
18   10.667   4   St. Lawrence   0.917 (22-2)   24-3
19   10.654   6   Maine Maritime   0.885 (23-3)   25-3
20   10.643   3   Mount St. Mary   0.857 (24-4)   24-4
21   10.615   2   Wilmington   0.846 (22-4)   24-4
22   10.607   7   Maine-Farmington   0.893 (25-3)   25-3
23   10.577   1   Howard Payne   0.962 (25-1)   26-1
24   10.571   3   Washington U.   0.810 (17-4)   20-5
25   10.560   3   Denison   0.880 (22-3)   24-4
26   10.550   4   Calvin   0.950 (19-1)   25-2
27   10.500   4   Concordia (Wis.)   0.909 (20-2)   23-3
28   10.478   8   Brandeis   0.783 (18-5)   19-5
29   10.462   9   Norwich   0.885 (23-3)   24-3
30   10.458   5   Manchester   0.833 (20-4)   21-6
31   10.440   5   Carroll   0.840 (21-4)   21-4
32   10.423   2   McMurry   0.885 (23-3)   24-3
33   10.360   2   St. Benedict   0.875 (21-3)   22-5
34   10.348   6   Hope   0.870 (20-3)   24-3
35   10.346   4   McDaniel   0.885 (23-3)   23-3
36   10.333   3   Puget Sound   0.810 (17-4)   21-6
37   10.278   4   George Fox   0.763 (14-4)   18-6
38   10.261   6   UW-Whitewater   0.739 (17-6)   19-7
39   10.160   10   Salve Regina   0.840 (21-4)   22-6
40   10.136   5   Chapman   0.773 (17-5)   22-5
41   10.125   3   Oglethorpe   0.833 (20-4)   21-6
42   10.125   7   Transylvania   0.750 (18-6)   19-8
43   10.120   4   William Paterson   0.840 (21-4)   22-5
44   10.087   5   Medaille   0.913 (21-2)   23-4
45   10.083   7   Illinois Wesleyan   0.833 (20-4)   22-5
46   10.045   6   Simpson   0.773 (17-5)   21-6
47   10.042   11   Tufts   0.708 (17-7)   18-7
48   10.040   5   Dickinson   0.840 (21-4)   22-4
49   10.038   12   Keene State   0.769 (20-6)   21-6
50   10.000   6   Oswego State   0.704 (19-8)   19-8
51   10.000   4   Randolph-Macon   0.880 (22-3)   23-4
52   10.000   7   Gustavus Adolphus   0.846 (22-4)   22-5
53   9.913   8   Chicago   0.696 (16-7)   18-7
54   9.864   9   Maryville (Mo.)   0.864 (19-3)   22-5
55   9.815   8   Capital   0.741 (20-7)   20-7
56   9.792   5   Virginia Wesleyan   0.792 (19-5)   21-6
57   9.773   10   Wheaton (Ill.)   0.727 (16-6)   19-7
58   9.760   7   Brockport State   0.720 (18-7)   20-7
59   9.741   13   Colby-Sawyer   0.815 (22-5)   22-5
60   9.739   9   Thomas More   0.826 (19-4)   22-4
61   9.731   6   Albright   0.654 (17-9)   17-9
62   9.727   6   East Texas Baptist   0.818 (18-4)   22-5
63   9.727   11   Millikin   0.773 (17-5)   20-6
64   9.720   7   Hardin-Simmons   0.800 (20-5)   21-5
65   9.652   12   UW-Eau Claire   0.696 (16-7)   19-9
66   9.615   8   Ferrum   0.769 (20-6)   21-7
67   9.609   8   Hamilton   0.696 (16-7)   19-7
68   9.609   9   Maryville (Tenn.)   0.826 (19-4)   23-5
69   9.583   10   Westminster (Pa.)   0.750 (18-6)   22-6
70   9.542   13   UW-Stevens Point   0.708 (17-7)   18-7
71   9.500   14   Bates   0.583 (14-10)   15-10
72   9.500   11   Rose-Hulman   0.773 (17-5)   21-5
73   9.480   5   Baruch   0.720 (18-7)   20-8
74   9.480   7   Muhlenberg   0.720 (18-7)   19-7
75   9.407   6   Stevens   0.778 (21-6)   21-6
76   9.385   8   King's   0.692 (18-8)   19-8
77   9.348   10   Piedmont   0.739 (17-6)   18-7
78   9.320   15   Eastern Connecticut   0.640 (16-9)   16-11
79   9.320   12   Baldwin-Wallace   0.720 (18-7)   19-7
80   9.318   9   RPI   0.636 (14-8)   15-10
81   9.304   10   Keuka   0.727 (16-6)   18-7
82   9.250   8   La Verne   0.750 (15-5)   19-6
83   9.240   16   Suffolk   0.720 (18-7)   18-9
84   9.231   11   Ithaca   0.615 (16-10)   16-11
85   9.222   7   York (Pa.)   0.667 (18-9)   18-9
86   9.222   14   Benedictine   0.704 (19-8)   20-8
87   9.200   8   SUNY-Farmingdale   0.720 (18-7)   19-7
88   9.192   17   Worcester Polytech   0.769 (20-6)   20-6
89   9.192   13   Penn State-Behrend   0.808 (21-5)   21-5
90   9.192   14   Allegheny   0.692 (18-8)   19-8
91   9.185   18   Endicott   0.667 (18-9)   18-9
92   9.167   11   Christopher Newport   0.708 (17-7)   20-8
93   9.160   19   Mount Holyoke   0.720 (18-7)   20-7
94   9.160   15   Ohio Northern   0.640 (16-9)   17-10
95   9.148   9   Carleton   0.704 (19-8)   19-8
96   9.143   12   Elmira   0.714 (15-6)   21-6
97   9.130   12   Trinity (Texas)   0.652 (15-8)   17-8
98   9.120   9   Lehman   0.680 (17-8)   19-9
99   9.111   9   Ursinus   0.667 (18-9)   18-9
100   9.091   15   Carthage   0.591 (13-9)   15-11
101   9.038   10   Moravian   0.577 (15-11)   16-11
102   9.000   13   William Smith   0.583 (14-10)   14-11
103   9.000   16   St. Norbert   0.667 (16-8)   16-8
104   9.000   10   Redlands   0.684 (13-6)   16-8
105   9.000   11   Loras   0.667 (16-8)   17-10
106   8.960   13   Shenandoah   0.640 (16-9)   17-9
107   8.957   16   Washington and Jefferson   0.652 (15-8)   19-8
108   8.917   12   Minnesota-Morris   0.833 (10-2)   15-12
109   8.917   13   Concordia-Moorhead   0.667 (16-8)   18-9
110   8.889   11   Cabrini   0.704 (19-8)   19-8
111   8.857   20   Wesleyan   0.571 (12-9)   15-9
112   8.833   14   Bridgewater (Va.)   0.667 (16-8)   17-9
113   8.833   17   Wittenberg   0.583 (14-10)   15-11
114   8.826   15   Eastern Mennonite   0.696 (16-7)   17-8
115   8.786   10   Marymount   0.643 (18-10)   18-10
116   8.769   21   Wheaton (Mass.)   0.615 (16-10)   17-10
117   8.760   14   Utica   0.680 (17-8)   18-8
118   8.737   14   Lewis and Clark   0.632 (12-7)   16-9
119   8.708   15   Geneseo State   0.542 (13-11)   14-12
120   8.667   11   Rutgers-Newark   0.667 (16-8)   16-10
121   8.667   17   UW-River Falls   0.583 (14-10)   16-11
122   8.652   12   Juniata   0.609 (14-9)   15-10
123   8.650   13   Johns Hopkins   0.700 (14-6)   14-9
124   8.640   22   Rhode Island College   0.640 (16-9)   16-10
125   8.640   12   Villa Julie   0.708 (17-7)   19-9
126   8.640   16   Mary Hardin-Baylor   0.640 (16-9)   16-10
127   8.636   23   Mass-Boston   0.591 (13-9)   15-11
128   8.636   15   Buena Vista   0.636 (14-8)   17-10
129   8.615   24   Castleton State   0.692 (18-8)   19-8
130   8.609   17   Greensboro   0.696 (16-7)   18-9
131   8.607   25   Salem State   0.607 (17-11)   17-11
132   8.591   18   Hendrix   0.727 (16-6)   19-7
133   8.583   16   Union   0.542 (13-11)   13-12
134   8.560   17   New Paltz State   0.680 (17-8)   17-10
135   8.550   19   Texas-Tyler   0.700 (14-6)   17-8
136   8.550   16   Linfield   0.550 (11-9)   14-11
137   8.542   18   Rochester Tech   0.583 (14-10)   15-11
138   8.520   18   Aurora   0.680 (17-8)   17-9
139   8.500   13   Montclair State   0.583 (14-10)   15-10
140   8.481   26   Western New England   0.556 (15-12)   15-12
141   8.478   14   Susquehanna   0.522 (12-11)   15-11
142   8.476   18   Anderson   0.571 (12-9)   16-10
143   8.462   19   Edgewood   0.577 (15-11)   15-12
144   8.458   15   DeSales   0.583 (14-10)   16-10
145   8.440   27   Emerson   0.640 (16-9)   16-10
146   8.440   14   John Jay   0.640 (16-9)   18-9
147   8.440   20   Austin   0.600 (15-10)   15-10
148   8.423   17   St. Thomas   0.577 (15-11)   15-11
149   8.400   18   Whitworth   0.550 (11-9)   14-11
150   8.368   19   Whitman   0.526 (10-9)   12-13
151   8.364   20   Lawrence   0.545 (12-10)   13-11
152   8.333   20   Occidental   0.611 (11-7)   16-9
153   8.333   16   Neumann   0.667 (18-9)   18-9
154   8.333   17   Alvernia   0.593 (16-11)   16-11
155   8.320   19   Mount Union   0.520 (13-12)   14-13
156   8.316   21   Claremont-Mudd-Scripps   0.579 (11-8)   15-10
157   8.304   19   Oneonta State   0.522 (12-11)   14-12
158   8.304   20   Albion   0.565 (13-10)   15-11
159   8.280   21   Wisconsin Lutheran   0.560 (14-11)   15-11
160   8.269   28   Western Connecticut   0.538 (14-12)   15-12
161   8.261   29   Amherst   0.522 (12-11)   12-13
162   8.259   15   New Jersey   0.481 (13-14)   13-14
163   8.231   18   Gettysburg   0.577 (15-11)   15-11
164   8.222   22   Principia   0.667 (12-6)   19-7
165   8.192   23   Lakeland   0.577 (15-11)   15-11
166   8.185   30   Nichols   0.630 (17-10)   17-10
167   8.185   31   Husson   0.519 (14-13)   14-13
168   8.176   22   Pacific Lutheran   0.529 (9-8)   13-11
169   8.174   16   Mt. St. Vincent   0.565 (13-10)   15-10
170   8.154   21   Roanoke   0.577 (15-11)   16-11
171   8.125   21   Kenyon   0.542 (13-11)   14-13
172   8.087   22   Washington and Lee   0.565 (13-10)   16-11
173   8.087   22   St. Mary's (Ind.)   0.522 (12-11)   12-12
174   8.048   24   North Park   0.571 (12-9)   15-9
175   8.045   17   Salisbury   0.591 (13-9)   15-11
176   8.045   18   Catholic   0.545 (12-10)   15-11
177   8.045   23   Emory   0.455 (10-12)   10-15
178   8.045   25   UW-La Crosse   0.455 (10-12)   13-13
179   8.038   32   Springfield   0.538 (14-12)   14-12
180   8.038   19   Richard Stockton   0.500 (13-13)   13-13
181   8.000   20   St. Mary's (Md.)   0.458 (11-13)   12-13
182   8.000   24   Rhodes   0.609 (14-9)   16-10
183   8.000   23   Defiance   0.524 (11-10)   14-11
184   7.962   25   Mississippi College   0.615 (16-10)   16-10
185   7.960   33   Worcester State   0.480 (12-13)   14-13
186   7.958   34   Bridgewater State   0.542 (13-11)   14-11
187   7.957   24   Otterbein   0.522 (12-11)   14-12
188   7.917   20   St. John Fisher   0.500 (12-12)   13-12
189   7.917   21   Frostburg State   0.625 (15-9)   17-9
190   7.917   19   Drew   0.500 (12-12)   13-13
191   7.875   25   Wooster   0.542 (13-11)   14-12
192   7.864   22   Notre Dame (Md.)   0.727 (16-6)   18-6
193   7.864   26   Olivet   0.545 (12-10)   12-12
194   7.857   26   Fontbonne   0.571 (12-9)   13-13
195   7.842   26   Agnes Scott   0.526 (10-9)   16-9
196   7.840   23   St. Catherine's   0.560 (14-11)   15-11
197   7.810   27   Greenville   0.614 (13-8)   17-8
198   7.792   20   Delaware Valley   0.458 (11-13)   11-13
199   7.762   35   Trinity (Conn.)   0.524 (11-10)   12-12
200   7.750   36   Middlebury   0.458 (11-13)   12-13

[GAVA]

Your apology is accepted in advance.

Did you delete a post that read, in part, "how many points are we going to lose today?" It was here a little bit ago but now is gone.

That was what I was referencing.

Nothing deleted. Post # 144. At that point I was wondering if having to play the # 5 and #6 seeds in the semis were also going to cost points. Ralph responded it wouldn't.I am going to overlook your's and Dmac's rudeness as you are both young enough to be my sons.

and post # 146.