Pool C

[hsusid]

Looks like all of the questionable Pool C's got beat in the first round. Without trying to sound like Dickie V, common sense should be a criteria. No nine loss team should ever be in the tournament as an at-large selection.

Gustavus, Albright, New Jersey, William Patterson.

[Ralph Turner]

Looks like all of the questionable Pool C's got beat in the first round. Without trying to sound like Dickie V, common sense should be a criteria. No nine loss team should ever be in the tournament as an at-large selection.

Gustavus, Albright, New Jersey, William Patterson.

Yeah, hsusid, are you campaigning for a HSU vs. McMurry and Trinity vs. HPU and HSU goes to the Final Four? 

[hsusid]

Not that it would have happened that way, but it would have been nice to have that chance. The geography was for sure there. I have no doubt we would have beaten all four of those teams listed above and maybe about 30 more teams in the tournament - but what can you do. That is the system we have.

It doesn't look like we (meaning the ASC) will ever get a bubble pool C bid with the new set up. The 15-team conference will not allow that, even if all 15 teams went 4 or 5-0 in non-conference against DIII foes. The smaller conferences, especially the ones that are over multiple regions for sure have the advantage now. That is why you see four from UAA and three from the SCAC. 

The top end of the ASC is on par or better than those two conferences, they just don't have the bad teams to drag them down OWP and OOWP wise. 

You have to win 22 or 23 games to get a lock Pool C if you are in our conference and other conferences have to win 18 to get a lock Pool C.

It will for sure make the conference administration, presidents, ADs and coaches take a serious look if the way we are doing it is the right way. Does the ability to for sure fill a schedule outweigh not having a realistic chance to get more teams in the tournaments for all the sports that play such a conference-weighted schedule (basketball, volleyball, soccer, softball). 

Does it lead to a split of the conference? Does it lead to less conference games? Do you remain status quo? Those are the questions that will have to be answered in the future.

The thing is nothing would change for at least another year, because you couldn't schedule more non-conference games for next year at this point of the year.

[Pat Coleman]

Looks like all of the questionable Pool C's got beat in the first round. Without trying to sound like Dickie V, common sense should be a criteria. No nine loss team should ever be in the tournament as an at-large selection.

Gustavus, Albright, New Jersey, William Patterson.

Bowdoin won.

New Jersey won.

[feces monkey]

Bowdoin might have been questionable from a NESCAC perspective (we have higher standards), but the Polar Bears were far more worthy than any non-qualifying team from another conference or region, especially the south.

[Ralph Turner]

Pool C Berths (21):

Albright--MAC-C:  LOST to Mount St Mary 62-75

Bowdoin--NESCAC:  Def. Bridgewater St 64-49

Brandeis--UAA:  Def. Southern Maine 74-71

George Fox--NWC:  Def. Chapman 71-55

Gustavus Adolphus--MIAC:  LOST to Simpson 64-73

Marymount (Va.)--CAC: LOST to Salem State 63-73

McMurry--ASC:  Def. Trinity TX 71-67

New Jersey--NJAC: Def. Bridgewater VA 65-52

Oglethorpe--SCAC: Def. Piedmont 91-78

Rochester--UAA:  Def. E.ConnSt 71-66

Salem State--MASCAC: Def. Marymount 73-63

Southern Maine--LEC:  LOST to Brandeis 71-74

St. Thomas--MIAC:  LOST to Chicago 59-62

Trinity (Texas)--SCAC:  LOST to McMurry 67-71

Tufts--NESCAC:  Def. Wheaton MA 71-67

UW-Eau Claire--WIAC:  Def. Carleton 61-52

UW-Whitewater--WIAC:  Def. Manchester 77-60

Washington U.--UAA:  Def. Wilmington 73-72

Wilmington--OAC:  LOST to Washington U (StL) 72-73

William Paterson--NJAC: LOST to St Lawrence 57-64

William Smith--LL:  Def. Colby-Sawyer 76-72

Record vs Pool A -- 8-4
Record vs Pool B -- 1-0
Record vs Pool C -- 4-4


Corrections appreciated

[Ralph Turner]

Pool C -- Second round Scores

Bowdoin--NESCAC:  LOST to Amherst 60-61

Brandeis--UAA:  LOST to Kean 61-95

George Fox--NWC:  Def. Puget Sound 72-66

McMurry--ASC:  LOST at Howard Payne 64-79.

New Jersey--NJAC: LOST at Mary Washington 50-56.

Oglethorpe--SCAC:  Def. Thomas More 65-55.

Rochester--UAA:  Def. Medaille 69-50.

Salem State--MASCAC: LOST to DeSales 55-74.

Tufts--NESCAC:  Def. Mount St Mary 54-38

UW-Eau Claire--WIAC:  LOST to Simpson 63-70

UW-Whitewater--WIAC:  Def. Illinois Wesleyan 87-63

Washington U.--UAA:  LOST to DePauw 66-73

William Smith--LL:  Def. Brockport State 78-73.

Record vs Pool A --  6-7 Second Round
Record vs Pool A -- 14-11 Overall

Corrections appreciated

[Ralph Turner]

Not that it would have happened that way, but it would have been nice to have that chance. The geography was for sure there. I have no doubt we would have beaten all four of those teams listed above and maybe about 30 more teams in the tournament - but what can you do. That is the system we have.

It doesn't look like we (meaning the ASC) will ever get a bubble pool C bid with the new set up. The 15-team conference will not allow that, even if all 15 teams went 4 or 5-0 in non-conference against DIII foes. The smaller conferences, especially the ones that are over multiple regions for sure have the advantage now. That is why you see four from UAA and three from the SCAC. 

...

hsusid, I think that HSU would have received a Pool C bid, if the Cowgirls had beaten Trinity TX.  That might have boosted you above TU with the head-to-head.

However, that was Coach Briggs second game with her "new" team.

[Ralph Turner]

Pool C -- Third and fourth round (Sectional)  Scores

George Fox--NWC:  LOST to Hope 40-47

Oglethorpe--SCAC:  Def. Wm Smith 69-63; Def. Kean at Kean 98-86.

Rochester--UAA:  LOST at Messiah 61-73.

Tufts--NESCAC:  Def. Mary Washington 48-45; LOST at Messiah 49-55.

UW-Whitewater--WIAC:  Def. Simpson 96-69.  Def. DePauw 83-80

William Smith--LL:  LOST to Oglethorpe 63-69.

Record vs Pool A --  4-3 Third and Fourth Rounds
Record vs Pool A -- 18-14 Overall

Record vs Pool B -- 1-0 Overall

Record vs Pool C -- 1-1 Third Round
Record vs Pool C -- 5-5 Overall

Record in the playoffs -- 24-19 Overall

Corrections appreciated

[Ralph Turner]

Pool C -- Final Four Scores

Oglethorpe--SCAC:  LOST to Messiah, 60-80; LOST to UW-Whitewater 67-80.

UW-Whitewater--WIAC:    LOST to Howard Payne 59-69; Def. Oglethorpe 80-67.


Record vs Pool A --  0-2 Finals.
Record vs Pool A -- 18-16 Overall

Record vs Pool B -- 1-0 Overall

Record vs Pool C -- 1-1 Finals (This game occurred in the Third Place Game, UWW vs. Oglethorpe)
Record vs Pool C -- 6-6 Overall

Record in the playoffs -- 25-22 Overall

Corrections appreciated

[Ralph Turner]

Regional Rankings for women begin on Feb 11th.  There will be 6 women's teams ranked in each region, except for the Northeast which will rank 8 teams.

There are 20 Pool C bids this season to go with 40 Pool A conferences and 3 Pool B bids.

2009 Women's Basketball Handbook

[deiscanton]

Pabegg--

I appreciate your numbers and analysis of the Pool C side for the men's bracket very much.  I wonder if you could do the same for the women's side of the NCAA tournament so that I can get a picture of the women's DIII national scene?  Thank you in advance if you can do it.

[Ralph Turner]

Update from the 2/2/2009 revision. 

2008-09 Division III Women's Basketball Sponsorship Data

Division III institutions sponsoring women's basketball: 436
Provisional institutions (not eligible for the championship): 13
Declared NAIA (not eligible for the NCAA championship): 2
Institutions eligible for NCAA championship: 419
Conferences meeting automatic qualifying requirements: 40
Eligible teams in automatic-qualifying conferences: 385
Pool B teams: 34
Access ratio (eligible teams in AQ conferences/# of AQ conferences:
1:9.625

No change in bid allocation (40A' 3 B's 20 C's)
University of Dallas women are not listed as affiliating with the NEAC this season.
Presentation is not desginated as a provisional member in the UMAC.
The Landmark Conference, the New England Collegiate Conference and the Upper Midwest Athletic Conference are not designated as provisional (Pool B) conferences.
There is no listing of Pool B teams, teams declaring for the NAIA or , or provisional members in the handbook.

I have not found any other errors at this time.

[Ralph Turner]

Good comments by Mark Simon on Hoopsville.

Remember that your team will get a tourney loss, but 5 in-region losses seem to the threshold for getting a Pool C bid.

[Pat Coleman]

Regional rankings released:
http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2009/02/11/ncaa-regional-rankings