FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Li'l Giant]

I would have thought that the fact that he only started seven games was as big an obstacle or a bigger one than his age.

But 6 of those 7 were NCAC contests. So in reality, he only started 1 fewer game than Carroll. And he was instrumental in relief against OWU.

[Pat Coleman]

Is all-conference just on 70% of the games?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Is all-conference just on 70% of the games?

All-conference presumably just means performance in conference games - that's how it is in CCIW, anyway.

[Li'l Giant]

Is all-conference just on 70% of the games?

There's nothing I can find on the NCAC site that says so explicitly but the PDF listing does state that they are voted on by the NCAC coaches. I would assume that means it's based on what those coaches saw.

[Superfoot Wallace]

Went to the Oberlin game last week and was impressed with RV Carroll.  Not sure he isn't OPOY.  All depends on whether he can lead his team to an upset of Gheny.  If Obie beats Gheny RV can't be denied.

Though, McKinley for newcomer?  The strip of Sobecki isn't the only great play this kid's made this year. 

Any stats for Carroll today against Sanchez?

That right there sums up why Carrol won OPOY.  Bash may or may not have won conference with a different QB under center, something that has been done before.  And while Oberlin didn't win the conference or knock off either of the less than 800 pound gorillas, they did pull off a win against the team with the conference's only national championship that has had at least eight 800 pound gorillas unlike those ever seen by Wabash.

Yea, yea I know Wabash has seen the eight hundred pound gorilla of MUC in the playoffs, but the defeat of Allegheny is of epic proportions.  Of much greater proportions than THE upset of Wooster a few years back.  Bigger even than Wabash knocking that field goal through the uprights back in 02 against Witt.

Just don't see how you couldn't give the award to RV.  He did things for that program unlike any that have ever been done for that program before.

And think that Bell loss, whether conference only are taken into consideration or not, did not help Hudson's chances.  Though, newcomer of the year?  It doesn't say freshman of the year.  Just think how laughable it should be in the legacy of the Monon Bell were the LG's to win, heaven forbid, a NC whilst the Bell resides in Putnam County.

signed,
HEED

[Pat Coleman]

Is all-conference just on 70% of the games?

There's nothing I can find on the NCAC site that says so explicitly but the PDF listing does state that they are voted on by the NCAC coaches. I would assume that means it's based on what those coaches saw.

Those coaches never see non-conference games on tape? They aren't aware that Hudson didn't start the first three games?

[wally_wabash]

Went to the Oberlin game last week and was impressed with RV Carroll.  Not sure he isn't OPOY.  All depends on whether he can lead his team to an upset of Gheny.  If Obie beats Gheny RV can't be denied.

Though, McKinley for newcomer?  The strip of Sobecki isn't the only great play this kid's made this year. 

Any stats for Carroll today against Sanchez?

That right there sums up why Carrol won OPOY.  Bash may or may not have won conference with a different QB under center, something that has been done before.  And while Oberlin didn't win the conference or knock off either of the less than 800 pound gorillas, they did pull off a win against the team with the conference's only national championship that has had at least eight 800 pound gorillas unlike those ever seen by Wabash.

It's not like Allegheny won a national championship recently...I don't see the relevance of Allegheny's championship in 1990-ish to Allegheny's team now.  The Gators are clearly not anywhere near that kind of team anymore. 

In hoops, Wooster beats Wabash like a drum.  Wabash has a national championship banner and Wooster doesn't.  Is Wooster notching major program wins twice every year when they beat the LGs because Wabash won a championship 25 years ago?  Of course not...that's absurd. 

Yea, yea I know Wabash has seen the eight hundred pound gorilla of MUC in the playoffs, but the defeat of Allegheny is of epic proportions.  Of much greater proportions than THE upset of Wooster a few years back.  Bigger even than Wabash knocking that field goal through the uprights back in 02 against Witt.

Again, not even close.  We're talking about an Allegheny team that has recently lost to Kenyon, lost three out of the last four to OWU....they aren't an elite team. 

Just don't see how you couldn't give the award to RV.  He did things for that program unlike any that have ever been done for that program before.

I maintain that the 2003 team was a bigger deal than the 2007 team.  That 2003 team came out of nowhere, had just snapped a 4 year losing streak the year before...that was the team that set Oberlin on the right path.  Most figured Oberlin, with some good skill players who had experience, could be competitive this year, which they were. 

Just think how laughable it should be in the legacy of the Monon Bell were the LG's to win, heaven forbid, a NC whilst the Bell resides in Putnam County.

There's nothing funny about the Bell being held captive in Greencastle, but this is an interesting point.  I can promise you that Wabash will the Bell again.  I can also promise you that Wabash will lose the Bell again.  But a national championship...you don't ever lose that.  Wabash has a chance to have the best season ever...with or without the Bell. 

[Li'l Giant]

Those coaches never see non-conference games on tape? They aren't aware that Hudson didn't start the first three games?

I don't doubt they are aware he didn't start the first 3 games. I just don't see how the fact he didn't start 2 non-con games is relevant to whether he is worthy of an all-NCAC award. And the one NCAC game he didn't start he thew both Wabash TDs. If the criteria for all-NCAC awards is based on conference play then the fact he didn't start against Franklin and Millikin is irrelevant. And the fact he didn't start against OWU is countered by the fact he engineered both scoring drives.

[Superfoot Wallace]

It's not like Allegheny won a national championship recently...I don't see the relevance of Allegheny's championship in 1990-ish to Allegheny's team now.  The Gators are clearly not anywhere near that kind of team anymore. 

In hoops, Wooster beats Wabash like a drum.  Wabash has a national championship banner and Wooster doesn't.  Is Wooster notching major program wins twice every year when they beat the LGs because Wabash won a championship 25 years ago?  Of course not...that's absurd. 

It's not so much that Allegheny won the championship but that 1990 represents the conference's lone title.  It's simply perspective.  Reverence for the Gators is just not easily dismissed here.  Too many echos in the pantheon.

Also have to take into account the Pennsylvania-Ohio football rivalry.  Holy shooting match they base one of the best HS all star games along these lines.  Surely being an Indiana boy the same is said for the Kentucky-Indiana basketball all star series.

The Wabash basketball title is as relevant as say the Wittenberg football titles here.  They're from different conferences from a different era.  While 1990 isn't present era the Allegheny football title is from the present conference affiliation with some similitude of composition and parity.

Having trouble tracking it down, but there was a post indicating that Carol did nothing against the conference gorillas, and frankly, have to disagree with the assertion.  RV did everything to keep Obie in the game with Witt from touchdowns to two point conversions.  The two point conversion was what actually sold me.  Witt really tilted the flank with some pass defense in the Obie game, but Carrols combined numbers rushing and receiving were formidable that game.

As for head to head, Huson destroying Carroll, Hudson wasn't playing the Bash defense as RV wasn't playing the Obie defense.  Really though, think the award is one of those Rolex watch and steak dinners for the offensive line awards.  Was thoroughly impressed with the Obie O-line (gack! to think I just said that.)  Think that game as much as any is a testament to the Wabash dline this year, which in its own right might be one of the Rolex-steak awards from Adi.

And yes, do believe Wooster takes great pride as much as any Ohio school in beating anything remotely Indiana in basketball.  But as bad as Wabash basketball goings might be recently, don't see any jerseys buried in the fieldhouse or endzome for that matter.

Will point out that the Thiel team Obie beat to get off the record (yes, record) schnide is coached by the Allegheny pantheon.

signed,
Pellini to UM

[Pat Coleman]

Those coaches never see non-conference games on tape? They aren't aware that Hudson didn't start the first three games?

I don't doubt they are aware he didn't start the first 3 games. I just don't see how the fact he didn't start 2 non-con games is relevant to whether he is worthy of an all-NCAC award. And the one NCAC game he didn't start he thew both Wabash TDs. If the criteria for all-NCAC awards is based on conference play then the fact he didn't start against Franklin and Millikin is irrelevant. And the fact he didn't start against OWU is countered by the fact he engineered both scoring drives.

That's a big if -- glad you italicized it.

[Li'l Giant]

That's a big if -- glad you italicized it.

I'm not going to claim to know something I don't. If there is something somewhere that says so, I'd have pointed it out to you.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Those coaches never see non-conference games on tape? They aren't aware that Hudson didn't start the first three games?

I don't doubt they are aware he didn't start the first 3 games. I just don't see how the fact he didn't start 2 non-con games is relevant to whether he is worthy of an all-NCAC award. And the one NCAC game he didn't start he thew both Wabash TDs. If the criteria for all-NCAC awards is based on conference play then the fact he didn't start against Franklin and Millikin is irrelevant. And the fact he didn't start against OWU is countered by the fact he engineered both scoring drives.

That's a big if -- glad you italicized it.

Pat, in the CCIW all-conference awards are based solely on conference performance, which seemed common sense to me.  Is that NOT usual in other conferences?  (Obviously things would be different for all-region or all-American awards, but for all-conference awards?)

[Pat Coleman]

Unless it's a statistical award, I can't imagine that how someone played the rest of the season would be totally irrelevant to a human voter.

[bashbrother]

I think this RV OPOY issue comes down to one thing.   NCAC Politics and a stretch of definition.  Sure he is a quality player that has done some special things in his years at Oberlin.

Oberlin was 5-5 last year and was 5-5 this year.  Beating AC this year and losing to Heidelberg..does not equal an improvement.

1,280 yard rushing in 2006 to 1,038 yard rushing in 2007 

Politics......  A representative from the NCAC told me once that "they like to spread the awards around."  I think this was a great opportunity for the conference to award a quality athlete from one of the middle to bottom half teams in the conference.

Is he the best offensive talent in the league.....no.  Is he one of the top 2 or 3 ...probably

But, I am ok with it,  as I accepted long ago the global motivations of the NCAC.

I would have been more upset if the Oberlin coach would have taken Coach of the Year.   

Bottom line is Carrol did a great job on an average team and Hudson will have two more years to fill his trophy case.

[BayernFan]

Anyone know if there will be any Wabash fan functions in Cleveland the night before the game?   Five years ago, the Alumni Association had a small party in Canton the night before the MUC game.  Anything like that in the works for the weekend?   The Wabash site is silent about it.   I am booked into the Cleveland Hilton-Beachwood, and am fired up for the game.  I'm thinking that there will be a good showing of Scarlet at the game.