FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[usee]

Here is an interesting research project:   

When is the last time a team in NCAA football played against a competitive rival on the road, turned the ball over 5 times, 100 + yards in penalties, early special teams issues and still won the game?

Not worth looking for the answer, but I bet it has been awhile.

2 very good examples:

Last week Elmhurst @ Carthage: Elmhurst 5 turnovers, 84 yds in penalties, down 26-7 and won the game 29-26.

The week before that: Carthage @ IWU: Carthage had 4 turnovers, 101 yds in penalties was losing in the 4th quarter and won 26-21.

Also, if you are looking for Turnover examples take a look at Carthage this year--- 26 TO's in 6 games. Wheaton has won at least 2 conference titles with a negative TO ratio.

[Schwami]

From the not worth bragging about department:

Coming into the game today, Wabash led the NCAC in turnover margin at +4.  Witt was third at -1.  Kind of sad that the third place ranking in a ten team conference was in negative territory. 

Now Witt is +3 and Wabash is level in turnover margin.  This is something the LG's must improve upon if they are to reach their potential.

Also, I used to freak out when the LG's needed to kick a PAT or FG.  No longer.  Now my anxiety level skyrockets whenever the LG's attempt a punt.  Today we had a 12 yard punt (after a false start penalty wiped out a decent 36 yard punt into the wind) and another attempt that actually gets scored as a rush for a loss of 14 yards.

Let's hope we don't have to punt at all next week (but not because we're turning the ball over first!) 

[WAF78]

Wow...I agree with Wally...I'm still in a bit of shock after one of the most frustrating yet exciting Wabash games I've seen. Just a few comments.
The D was awesome...last year we'd have been stomped if the O had played like that. Our D is aggressive, physical, ...giving up 5 turnovers and only yielding 10 points...wow
With that game out of Hudson's system...he can get back to playing football. The O line did a very good job of protection...for the most part. In the first half Hudson was aiming the ball...and couldn't hit his receivers...he threw behind or over or led them too far. He did get hit this game a lot more...but he usually had 4+ seconds to throw...however...
Witt's defense was very good...and they had the best defensive backfield we've seen by far. Our receivers couldn't get separation...which made Hudson hold the ball longer...and then he'd get hit more as the O line can only hold blocks for so long.
The penalties were maddening. I wonder how many procedure penalites we had...and in the sixth week of the season. Yikes...those are mental mistakes.
Witt played a great game...played hard...hit hard...made the plays when they had to. That pass play down the seam over the middle to the tight end...we couldn't stop that all day.
And...I echo what has already been said...the sign of a great team is when they play like dog poop and still win.
Woo next week will be tough. Glad we're facing them at Hollett.
Congrats to the Little Giants.
Wabash Always Fights!!!!!

[WAF78]

One more thing...though Hudson had a tough day...when the chips were down...he made the plays he had to make to win the game. Again, the sign of a true champ.

[BashFan74]

Question for Wally (or anyone else who was at the game):

It sounded like the officiating crew did not have their head in the game -- at least during the first half.  That was the consensus of both the Wabash and Witt announcing teams.  For example, the pass interference penalty which set up the first qtr FG was on a pass that was apparently not catchable.   That was a major swing for Witt, and, without that penalty, the Wabash D looks even better.  And a 7-yard motion penalty?  Another difference-maker.

[BayernFan]

I usually have a real hard time blaming refs for bad calls.  And this is no exception.  Sometimes refs make mistakes, but a good team has to play through adversity (whether an injury, an off day, or bad officiating).

Plus, I really didn't see anything that would make be actually question the calls that went against Wabash.  Most of them are "eyesight" calls that we in the stands are certainly in no position to call.

Except for two calls that come to my mind.  vbg

And I bring them up for my education.

The first was the pass interference call against Wabash early in the game where the receiver was near the goal line and the ball clearly was at least 5 yards over his head and landed our of bounds at the back corner of the end zone.  Problem was, the Wabash defender (who was not looking at the ball) saw the Witt receiver turn to look at the ball so the defender simply wrapped him up with both arms at the waist and took him out of bounds.

The pass was clearly uncatchable, yet the call was def PI.  Was the call correct?

The second occurred during Wabash's first possession after tying it at 3-3.  Sobecki rushed 4 yards to make it 2nd and 6 at the Wab 36.  Then, Wab was called for illegal motion.  That is a five yard penalty, right?

The officials were obviously confused as to the placement of the ball, because the play that was called back was for a 1st down and the stick guys were already moving to mark the new 1st and 10 spots.  When the play was called back, the down stick guy didn't remember where he had just been and the ref, who was looking to him for the spot was holding his arms out with palm upturned as in "Well?".  The stick guy shrugged and plopped his stick down where he was standing.  The ref marks out 5 yards.

to the Wabash 29.  Not the 31.  It was a 7 yard motion penalty.  It is in the game stats.  illegal motion for 7 yards.

Am I out of my mind thinking that this was a bad call?

It was important because Wabash failed to make a 1st down in the drive......... by one yard.

Kinda ticked me off a bit there.  Everyone in the stadium knew it but the zebras and the stick guy, it seemed.

[wally_wabash]

I thought that the pass interference was pretty dicey as well.  Here's the rule from the NCAA rule book (Rule 7-3-8-c):

Defensive pass interference is contact beyond the neutral zone by a Team B player whose intent to impede an eligible opponent is obvious and it could prevent the opponent the opportunity of receiving a catchable forward pass.  When in question, a legal forward is catchable.

The important part of the rule here is the last sentence...the rule gives the benefit of the doubt to the offense.  Now, I agree that the pass in question was in no way catchable.  From my angle, it looked like the ball had actually gone past the receiver at the time of the contact (my angle on the play was NOT optimal for that observation, so I could be mistaken there).   That being said, I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a crew pick up a flag because the pass was ruled to be not catchable.  In today's game, contact on the targeted receiver is going to get penalized regardless of the catchability of the pass.  Maybe the rules committee will make this a point of emphasis in the near future, but for now that's just the way it is. 

The 7-yard illegal motion mark off was brutal.  I'm not sure if that was the fault of the crew or the fault of the guy with the LOS marker.  But they definitely blew that.  The interesting thing about that 7-yard illegal motion mark off is that Wabash made 12 yards on the subsequent 3rd and 13 and had to punt on 4th and 1.  Those extra two yards killed a Wabash drive. 

[DarkSide-D]

Adding to the discussion of turnovers, as Scotlass stated, one of the touchdowns against Woo on Saturday was an interception ran back.  However, the first touchdown also resulted from an interception.  Neither of these INTs, in my opinion, were Holter's fault.  Both hit the WRs in the hands, the WR bobbled the ball, and a WashU player was there to pick it off.  Although Holter did throw a few balls behind the WRs, if the ball hits you in the hands, you catch it.  There were many balls bobbled and dropped during the game.  I don't think that will get it done against Bash.

With that said, Woo played really well yesterday.  The Defense came in and played tough hard nose ball.  Even on the offensive side I was happy to see the ball carrier (even WRs) lowering their shoulder and running through a WashU defender for a few extra yards.  As long as Woo comes to play, it will be a great game on Saturday.  However, Woo needs to remain focused.

I also wanted to note that unlike at the Denison game, when there was a big hit, both the player making the hit and the sidelines got fired up.  That is the way the game should be played, with excitement!

[jam40jeff]

That being said, I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a crew pick up a flag because the pass was ruled to be not catchable.  In today's game, contact on the targeted receiver is going to get penalized regardless of the catchability of the pass.

I completely disagree here.  I have seen numerous flags not thrown (and a few thrown then picked up) when there was what looked to be pass interference but the ball was clearly uncatchable.  I would say the majority of the tiem there is no flag thrown and many fans either (A) don't even notice the receiver was contacted by the defender, (B) the fans think the referee simply missed the call, or (C) the fans realize the ball was not catchable and don't think anything of the contact.  However, yes, if there is even a remote possibility of the receiver making the catch without contact, the referee will almost always throw the flag (and rightfully so by the rule).  Now I didn't see the play in question, so I can't say whether or not it was obvious that the ball was not catchable, but it seems that it may have been even from your own admission.

[BayernFan]

Thanks, Wallly.

I guess the call that we would have wanted would be for the ref not to throw the flag at all, but instead give the signal for uncatchable.

I'm pretty sure I've seen flags picked up... probably in the NFL.

I bet we see three of them today on TV!!  vbg

I think that Sobecki should now start for Wabash.  He may not be quite as quick as Kimp, but he is stronger against quicker DLs and LBs.  Plus, he is sure handed coming out of the backfield for the pass.

Wabash is obviously going to see quicker stronger defenders against the run against Wooster and DPU and the playoffs (knock on walnut).  It seems to me that Sobecki is 100% now and that he will do better against these defenses that Kimp at this point.  It seems as if half of Sobecki's gains were called back.

I have seen 3 Wabash games this season and I am also glad to see that Hudson has lost the "hitch" in his passing form that pretty much drove me nuts all last year.  

[BashBacker#16]

What a game at Witt yesterday, very frustrating for sure.  McKinley was a beast and Brown is a very good corner who made some great plays today.  Brumfield went 0-for and likely has lost the job to Durbin the rest of the season...just a hunch.  The Bash D front is as good as advertised and set the tone on Witt's first series in the 2nd half...I believe a big tackle for loss, a big sack by DK, and a quick 3 & out.  Some other random thoughts:
- Lemond is unbelievable...his first really big game and he goes for 10 catches, 149 yards and 1 TD including the lone Bash TD and the 35 yard catch to set up Whitehead's winning FG.  He is a SOPHOMORE!  49 catches now in 6 games, over 913 yards, and 13 TD catches...just sick!
- the wind played a factor today without question, Bash had the wind in the critical 4th quarter
- Frosh Witt WR Josh McKee had 0 catches
- the hitting was downright violent!  Both sides had major hits throughout the entire game.
- it was great to see the Bash TE's become more involved in the passing game...Liska is a MAN when he wants to be and Sorenson is steady and a great blocker - both have great size
- Sobecki is going to be a stud down the stretch...tough, 205 pounder, and big game experience
- I thought the officiating was really really bad all day.  No one has mentioned the Witt TD catch where Williams landed out of bounds - no way he had a foot down.  No one has mentioned the NON pass interference call near the scoreboard on Bash's last drive...the Bash WR got knocked down in front of 2 officials...no call.  I was also shocked with a "facemask penalty" when the Bash defender had his head on the SIDE of the Witt player's helmet??
- although Bash's D front had some offsides penalties, I have never seen a Bash front get off the ball so fast...DK nearly grabbed a handoff in the 2nd half and Bubba shoots off like a rocket
- I thought Hudson did get time most of the day but Witt's D backs did a good job in coverage - thus the pressure.  I thought there were several times Matt should have tucked it and got his 5-6-7 yards rather then force throws.  He'll be back for sure.
- I hope Rode gets back and I still think Graham will be a big piece for the Bash O coming back from injury.

Classic game...for sure!

Wabash Always Fights!

[wally_wabash]

I agree with you guys about Sobecki...he was easily the most effective runner for Wabash yesterday and has looked really good since coming back from the ankle injury.  He'll be a big factor for the LGs the rest of the way. 

[BashFan74]

Not to belabor my fellow zebras...

It was interesting to note that both announcing teams felt that the pass interference call was incorrect.

Place the blame for the motion call on both the officiating crew and the Witt chain gang.  Gangs are often very anxious to move the chains and down markers -- especially when it's a home team first down.  They are supposed to wait for the linesman's signal, and he should not have signaled with a flag on the carpet.  What is odd is the the snap marker -- which is placed on the chain at one of the yard markers -- is not re-snapped until the chains are stretched and completely reset for the new series.  Why the linesman did not go back to the snap to get the right placement is anyone's guess.  It should have still been set up from the previous series. 

I will also comment that with the tide turning back and forth, the LG's -- players and coaches -- kept their heads, poise and focus.  THAT kept Wabash in the game and prepared to seize the opportunities that presented themselves in the final minutes. 

It wasn't pretty, but it was a win.  Perseverance and patience paid off in the end.  THAT will pau dividends with a number of tough games to play this season.

WAF !

[medicine man]

 

Stop please, these officiating tales are depressing me. We have never had a bad call, I don't know how you could stand it.

[ScotLass]