FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[DPU3619]

My apologies for getting my feathers all ruffled then, wally.  I'll gladly stand up and discuss what I may have said, just don't like having words put in my mouth, that's all.  Maybe I'm just priming the pump for Bell week.   

Sure I can. I've seen those teams play and I saw Wabash play last year and have an idea of your personnel (which is very good)...I think I said unless you were better than last year you would not beat beat Millsaps or Trinity (especially on the road)...it was a response to Wes' post...no disrespect meant...

I think Wabash IS much better than they were last year, that's the thing.  Just my thought on it, though.  Nothing saying we can't disagree.  Maybe they would beat Millsaps and maybe they wouldn't.  I think they're pretty interchangable through this point in the season.  Apparently a lot of voters do, too, as they're ranked so closely.  I'll be able to pass a better judgement on that after they play Trinity this weekend.

One thing I do believe is that the LG's would have had a really difficult time if they had played Millsaps on that particular Saturday that DPU played 'em.  Not many that could have beat Millsaps that day, I don't believe.  I watched a good deal of the video feed of that game, and that's just about the best I've ever seen a football team play at this level.  Better than Wabash in the '02 Bell game (Knott to Short, Knott to Short, Knott to Short..over and over and over).  Better than when DPU hung 60 on Rose in '05.  But, then MC goes on to only beat Centre by 20 and only beat Sewanee by 21. Maybe the LG's could get by 'em on a good day.  I do think they're better than Trinity, although that might depend on who's officating the ballgame.   

Also, I think that comparing this year's Millsaps and Trinity to this year's Wabash based on last year's Wabash is incredibly complicated.  So many changes to schemes and things with the new staff.  I'm reading about a lot of unfamiliar names in the Wabash box score every week.  There's a new guy in the #1 jersey.  There's also no more of that insanely complicated Neatherly 4-4-3/4-2-5 or whatthehellever it was.  I think it's too different to try to make a comparison to the '07 LG's, but that's just me.

[D3_DPUFan]

I do think they're better than Trinity, although that might depend on who's officating the ballgame.

Officiating? Are there questions about officiating in San Antonio? 

[BashBacker#16]

Wes,

Wasn't Neal Neathery's D last year PRETTY BASIC as in BASE COVER 3 ALL DAY LONG...then Cover 3, then Cover 3, then Cover 3, then halftime.  2nd half:  Cover 3, Cover 3, then Marks goes over 150...Cover 3, then Mulligan catches his 10th ball of the game...Cover 3, then Cover 3.........   

Did you really say "insanely complicated?"  I don't think Spud & Co. thought that... 

[WAF78]

BB16
Totally agree with your post.

Wes...I do believe that Wabash's D is much better than last year. However, after watching Wooster put up over 400+ yards on the D...I'm not as sure as I was. However, 4 picks and 2 fumble recoveries say something about a D as well. Irrespective...I think it'll be another barn burner in C'ville this year. So, invite as many of your DPU friends, family and buddies as you want...we won't turn them away or limit your attendance. In fact, we hope you bring a lot of folks...makes the atmosphere even better. And...one more thing...make sure you Dannies ring the bell a lot during the game...I have a feeling you won't be hearing that sound for a long time after the end of the game. 
Also, Wes...I always appreciate your posts.

[bashbrother]

Marks was great and Wabash was flat....... that was the story of last year IMO.

This year, if Wabash comes out flat again, they may lose again.   In a rivalry game, there is so much emotion and so much build up before the game, that the team that plays with more emotion has a great shot. 

On last week's defensive effort by this Little Giants team,  they allowed some big plays and had trouble with defending the quick passing game.   You have to give Wooster a ton of credit, great offensive game plan with great execution. 

ER will make the needed defensive adjustments and will correct those holes.

[BashBacker#16]

WAF78,

As we have said, Holter is the real deal and is a serious DUAL threat QB which makes him very difficult to defend...although they are both good QB's, he and Spud Dick (DePauw) have very contrasting styles...

Holter:  82 rushes, 521 yards
Dick:  20 rushes, -25 yards

If I was a D Coordinator, I would much rather face the single dimension guy.  I also think you have to consider the fact that Woo played from behind most of the game...by as many as 3+ scores throughout which can impact the D's approach. 

[Geezer Citizen]

BB16 -

One thing that impressed me about Holter was his choice of the short patterns and  his incredibly quick release. I don't think I have seen a qb with such a quick release in a long time. Don't think Spud is as quick as Holter.

[DPU3619]

Wes,

Wasn't Neal Neathery's D last year PRETTY BASIC as in BASE COVER 3 ALL DAY LONG...then Cover 3, then Cover 3, then Cover 3, then halftime.  2nd half:  Cover 3, Cover 3, then Marks goes over 150...Cover 3, then Mulligan catches his 10th ball of the game...Cover 3, then Cover 3.........   

Did you really say "insanely complicated?"  I don't think Spud & Co. thought that... 

That's true, and I know you're more kidding than anything else, but that's only one year.  Look at the struggles DePauw had moving that football against you guys in previous years.  I recall having a REALLY hard time getting anything going in 2006.  So much so that DPU went for it on that 4th down near midfield.  They didn't get it and Wabash went down and scored near the half.  Might have been the key play in that football game.  Maybe that's your defense and maybe that was a freshman QB on our side.  Who knows? 

DePauw just COULD NOT run the football in 2005.  I've always felt DePauw lost that football game because our head football coach in that particular season was a little too stubborn about that and we ran out of time to catch up. 2004 was a defense struggle. 

I don't know exactly when NN took the coordinator job.  We'll say 2001 for the fun of it.  Since then, DePauw has scored just a tick over 17 pts per game in the Bell game.  Always had a hard time figuring that guy out.  Glad he's on to bigger and better things, honestly.

[wally_wabash]

Spud is a better passer than Holter IMO*...I thought the numbers would back that up a little more but their completion percentages aren't that different.  I would have expected Spud to be over 60% (maybe I've been spoiled, but less than 60% seems to be average at best anymore).  If a team is going to drop back and throw 40 times on Wabash (I expect DePauw will be doing this on 11/15), they will get some yardage.  There are holes in the cover 2 that can be exploited.  But, and this is a big but, I don't think it is probable that a team is going te be able to throw 40 times and 1) not get their quarterback DK'd at some point and 2) not throw a ball or two to the outside that is destined to get picked off...the safeties and corners have been taught to really jump on the outside stuff (not selling state secrets here...ER has mentioned it several times in interviews this year).  It'll be interesting to see how DPU chooses to go at the new LG defense. 

*As an addendum, I think Holter is tougher to defend.  Both qb's are good at what they do and fit their systems well...I don't know which is a better quarterback.  They're different quarterbacks and both are pretty good.

[BashBacker#16]

Wes,

Agreed on Coach Neathery's D's and he is a heck of a coach (now at Drake with CC).  It was just frustrating to see us never adjust the whole game knowing it was going to either Marks or Mulligan.  Wabash changed their D the next week and it seemed much more effective in helping produce playoff wins over Mt. St. Joe and Case.  Until the playoffs, we played the same Cover 3 for 10 games.

[Fripp52]

I was the one saying Wabash had a cream puff schedule.  It was intended to get some comments going back and forth.  With 2 losses now, besides a few games in between, all we have to look forward to now is the Wabash game.  So I figured I would get it started now.
My point is simple.  There is no Trinity or Millsaps on Wabash's schedule.  If anyone thinks it is Witt or Wooster, they are mistaken.  And even the rest of the conference is weaker than most of the rest of the SCAC.  That facilitates giving Wabash the opportunity to do what they do - end the previous season in the playoffs, start the next year somewhere in the top 20, run through their schedule with wins, climb the rankings, and win or lose against DePauw, make the playoffs.  I applaud them for doing so.  And, Wes is right, I cannot pretend that Wabash playing DePauw's schedule, or DePauw playing Wabash's schedule, would end with the current results, just flipped.  It's my opinion that it would.  That's what forums are for.
I wish Wabash good luck YTG.  And I look forward to 15 Nov.  Unless DPU can figure out how to stop people from scoring, I won't like the score that day.
By the way, any Wabash players on the forum who played 1980 thru 1984 ?

[fijidoc]

I will throw my observations into the ring.

You are correct there is no Millsaps/Trinity on our schedule. Our confernce as a whole is not as difficult as the SCAC.  But the reason we have got to where our ranking is today is because of the consistency in the program and what we have done in the playoffs(not just winning the conference and going out first round).  Twice getting into the playoffs and getting to the final 8 only to lose to the eventual national champion shows a heck of a lot I think.  No we are not to the upper level with Mount and UWW but we have proven that we are in that next level right below them by winning two playoff games to get to the final 8.  Plus the year we lost in the first round was to one hell of a Capital team which was a game we should have won.

Now with regards to this year vs last year and Wabash.   I think that this team is much better than last years and that is for one simple reason.  WE CAN RUN THE BALL.  Last year teams could play with four lineman and two linebackers and still stop whatever running game we tried to put on the field.  This year that is not the case.  If you want to take away our deep passing game and keep safties 20 yards deep then fine we will pound you with the run(ie Wooster).  If you want to try and stop the run fine we will beat you with the pass.  This year's team is not as explosive because the WR's aren't as dynamic as last year but with regards to the overall offense it is far superior.  I also find our Defense to be much stronger.  The last few years we had to bring the blitz to get pressure and also at times to stop the run.  This year our front four alone has controlled the line of scrimmage both against the pass and the run.  Our secondary may not be outstanding but they are solid and getting better every week.  If Depauw can't run the ball than I feel sorry for Spud because if that D line can forget about the run and just bring the pressure that allows our LB's and DB's to fill the passing lanes.  It will be a long day.  If Depauw can muster up at least a running threat then that will open things up.

Finally, the Special Teams are far superior to anything I have seen over that past 3 years.

Also after losing the Bell last year there will be no chance of a let down this year.  One they want the Bell back and #2 they know what it means with regards to assuring better seeding in the playoffs.

As always the Bell game is an entity all to itself so it really doesn't matter who has the better team because we all know that often the better team doesn't come out on top.  I mean after a 100+ years to be seperated by one game in the victory column proves that will never change.

[wally_wabash]

Plus the year we lost in the first round was to one hell of a Capital team which was a game we should have won.

'Tis the season for fact checking....the 2005 Capital game was a second rounder.  The LGs squashed Albion in the first round in 2005.  Wabash has never lost a first round playoff game.   

There isn't a Millsaps or a Trinity on Wabash's schedule...which brings me back to the point I was trying to make earlier when the debate over schedule strength came up.  When Wabash joined the NCAC, Wittenberg was that Trinity/Millsaps of the conference...the nationally relevant, top tier, 300-lb gorilla that just seemed to play football at a higher level than anything Wabash had been used to.  DePauw experienced the same thing when they moved to the SCAC.  That first game against Wittenberg was a bit of an eye opener...well played until a lightning delay, then Wabash succumbed to a superior team.  Now instead of standing in awe of Wittenberg and crossing fingers that maybe one of these years we can get lucky and beat 'em, CC took the bull by the horns and set the goal of not just maybe beating Wittenberg, but becoming Wittenberg in the sense that Wabash should be the team that is the top tier, nationally relevant, 300-lb gorilla in the conference.  By the end of 2007, I think it's clear that he accomplished that.  So no, Wabash doesn't have a Trinity/Millsaps on the schedule in large part because Wabash assumed the role in the NCAC that Trinity/Millsaps plays now for you all in the SCAC.  Wabash doesn't get to play the top dog in the conference because Wabash is the top dog.  Wittenberg and Wooster are good programs and have good teams.  They might not quite be on the level that Millsaps is right now, but there is nothing easy about those games. 

As for the rest of the conference, there isn't anything Wabash can do.  Ohio Wesleyan has been an above average team in the past but for whatever reason is in the tank.  Other schools like Oberlin, Hiram, Earlham (champions of the D-IV movement), Kenyon, and Denison (although Denison is improving) just don't seem particularly interested in having great football teams and I think  frankly that, and especially with those schools in Ohio, that there just isn't enough local resources so that everybody can be awesome all the time (for example, Hiram has apparently adopted a policy of heading to the southeast to recruit...they can't mine enough players from Ohio to have a chance).  You can't just wave the magic football wand and have everybody yield a competitive team.  In football there are haves and there are have-nots.  That's just the way it is and that's the way it always will be.  I just don't see the point in comparing one conference's bad teams to another conference's bad teams.  Once teams reach a certain degree of "bad" it just doesn't matter anymore.  Is Colorado College better than Earlham?  Probably, but isn't the difference negligible?  Don't both of those teams fall into the category of "teams that good teams should beat with little trouble"?

That was a little rambly. but I think my points are clear.  11/15 is going to be fun.  You never know what's going to happen in a Bell Game...that's why we keep flocking to it every single year.   

[Geezer Citizen]

Wally -

Great anaylsis - no rambling when you make strong points.

It's Friday - let the games and the tailgating begin. I cannot make it to C'ville tomorrow, but rest assured, i will have it dialed up on my computer.

Good luck to all the NCAC teams tomorrow except Oberlin, and maybe Witt.

[fijidoc]

Thanks for correcting me with regards to the Capital game.  Even makes my point stronger.

Heck I was at the Albion and Capital game don't know why I couldn't remember that.  Oh yeah maybe it was because I was drunk.