FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[formerd3db]

Back the wagon up, bashbro.  It stinks that we're out and it stinks that we got squashed, but it's patently unfair to say that the NCAC teams have anything to do with it.  It's unfair to say the other teams in our conference blew our shot at greatness.  We expected to be in the playoffs and we got there...with a team consisting of players that were in the playoffs last year.  Experience...we had it.  I won't deny that our schedule isn't great and that we don't get the best "prep" for the postseason, but the onus is on Wabash to be ready to play the teams that we have to play in the playoffs.  We've been there enough to know what time it is.  In the past, the Wooster hoopheads have tried to use the weak NCAC schedule as a reason that they can't win it all and it's bogus.  It's just as bogus for Wabash football. 

So now we hit the recruiting trail...we lift...we practice our butts off in the spring and in the summer and we come back next November and take another stab at this thing we call the playoffs.  As long as we believe it, we'll make it happen.  That's how it works at Wabash.  We'll get there.  I know we will.   

I understand disappointment, but this just doesn't fit the motto......WAF!!!

WAF, indeed-- but the level of disappointment right now is not just about a weak schedule, but the merit of a team that doesn't stand as tall as that schedule seemed to suggest.

Once upon a time, winning outright in the NCAC meant you were pretty damn competitive nationally. Those days, at the moment, are far gone. Getting walloped by yet another conference's second-best sure doesn't inspire confidence, especially for a program that has done well to establish and raise-- amongst its fans, alumni, and a national audience--expectation.

Mount Union is Mount Union and Mount Union, this ain't. This Bash team was woefully blown up by a shiny record and inflated stats and that bubble got burst, violently, twice. I think we're all just wishing we'd been given an indication of our problems a little earlier; and I'm sure that the staff in Crawfordsville probably does too.  If you think the losses to Depauw and Wheaton have no correlation to those teams having two losses in much tougher leagues, I cry bologna. Depauw didn't have any overwhelming athletes, no better than ours, and as for Wheaton: what the hell happened since that scrimmage in august? They got good and we didn't? How? Maybe they played better teams.

In any case, this is all in reaction to our team and our players not being as good as we thought they were. And that's a bummer. We don't, after all, have any Knotts or Suttons or Chris Kerns' or Pierre Garcons or Blake Elliots. We don't have those elite type of players.  Watching the Bell game, it was apparent from the beginning-- You never looked at the screen and mistook someone for being a DI guy, the way you could during the 2001 bell game or 2002's Witt game or last year's Stagg Bowl (hell, even in today's Millsaps game; Bobby Swallow and Joseph both were really impressive). And to be blunt, you need a couple of those guys to be successful outside of our league. We ain't got'm. Not yet.

And finally: as much as this sucks, I believe in our school and our program and our guys. They'll learn from this. Surely more than if they hadn't been in the playoffs at all. They earned the trip and they should be congratulated. That senior class is the most successful class to leave the program and doing so with back-to-back trips to the playoffs is no small thing. A decade ago, Bash followers weren't afforded the opportunity to gripe about runs for the Walnut and Bronze. As a program and a community, I think we've earned as much. Any other reaction would be irresponsible and, to me, wholly disheartening. Let's keep pushing.

Wabash Always Fights.

Wally, BashDad and others:
That is a most interesting discussion.  You bring up some valid points, many of which we've tried to figure out in our own MIAA.  As you know, the level of play in the MIAA has not been anywhere near to what it was several years ago, and I dare say, obviously not very good against what I would term the better non-conference opponents.  Like you have mentioned, I, too, have always been of the opinion that in order to "get to the next level", a school has to upgrade their non-conference schedule conistently for several years.  Aside from just playing better teams, this includes via the process a changing of attitude, mind-set or whatever you want to term it (i.e. example of Northwestern in recent years - of course, they won't be a powerhouse ever, yet they are now quite competitive and that had as much to do with a new attitude, commitment of the administration to upgrading the program as much as it did with the current level of parity in college football today).

However, all the great points you raise/suggest in having Wabash improve next year and beyond to get to that next level, for some reason has not seemed to work for Hope (let alone some of our fellow MIAA schools).  Within our own conference, Hope just did not have the horses this year, which was a very different experience for them.  I'm not sure if that was simply a talent issue or just "one of those bad years that happen" sometimes.  As far as the overall aspects you've discussed regarding making that next step at Wabash, many of us on the MIAA board have discussed/speculated on some reasons why, as I said, that hasn't worked for Hope/the other MIAA schools.  Among one of those that has been suggested is the large number of DII schools in our greater region which attract some of the better talent players who might have gone to the DIII MIAA schools (and who did in years past).  Many of the MIAA head coaches believe that because they've seen that happen in the course of their recruiting.  Yet, on the other hand, I'm not sure how/why that doesn't apply to and/or affect the other DIII schools in the Midwest such as your conference and others in OH, IN, IL.   Perhaps I'm wrong and/or just am unaware of the underlying details that would come into play for your conference, but I haven't seen that same effect.  Of course, in regards to comparing Wabash with most of the other similar schools that have both women and men enrollement, perhaps Wabash is in a slightly different situation as far as attracting football student-athletes in the overall scheme because it is an all-male school??  Not sure if that would make any difference?  Anyway, if you have any suggestions that might help us out, please let us know!!

[usee]

I don't think the NCAC is doing Wabash any favors in preparing them for post season play but I agree with Wally they have seen enough of where they need to be to be successful. As for the MIAA I will say Trine is better than any MIAA rep I have seen since Albion in the 90's. They have it figured out if they can keep it going. Some great athletes there. I would put Trine on a par with Wabash and many of the teams in the CCIW as far as athletes and talent. They are obviously on a par with Franklin, having beaten them this year.

In my opinion it is really about consistently evaluating and upgrading your talent wherever possible. Guys like Darryl Kennon are winners. Those are great athletes who can be disruptive. Wabash just needs more of them. They are out there and it will happen.

[D3_DPUFan]

Like you have mentioned, I, too, have always been of the opinion that in order to "get to the next level", a school has to upgrade their non-conference schedule conistently for several years. 

While that can help, it is the conference schedule that provides, week in and week out, the competition that helps create the team you are at the end of the season.   Wabash hadn't been tested for a month heading into the Bell game. A non conference game or two can perhaps help, but the conference schedule provides far greater impact, no matter what level you are talking about, IMHO.
 

[Li'l Giant]

While that can help, it is the conference schedule that provides, week in and week out, the competition that helps create the team you are at the end of the season.   Wabash hadn't been tested for a month heading into the Bell game. A non conference game or two can perhaps help, but the conference schedule provides far greater impact, no matter what level you are talking about, IMHO.

I agree. Unfortunately, we can't do anything about what the other schools do. And that's not meant as a slight to any other NCAC team. It's just the truth. The only part of our schedule we have had control over was our non-con.

Maybe we are making more of this than we should. Yes, I know we just didn't win the games we needed to. But if we cant talk about this type of stuff in the offseason, what's a message board for? 

[bashbrother]

Winning 60-7 and 63-0 and pulling the starters at halftime the two weeks leading up to Bell Game...... was not the best way to prepare for it.  I agree.  Not much control over how the schedule shakes out.

Kind of a tough scheduling dilema.   Anyone know what the 2009 Schedule heading into the Bell Game looks like?

Plus, the NCAC as a whole was down this year (11-19 non-conference).  Lets hope all the NCAC programs have great recruiting years and healthy Springs and come out fighting next year.

[wally_wabash]

Winning 60-7 and 63-0 and pulling the starters at halftime the two weeks leading up to Bell Game...... was not the way to prepare for it.  I agree.

Kind of a tough scheduling dilema.   Anyone know what the 2009 Schedule heading into the Bell Game looks like?

Next year's schedule is identical to this year's schedule, just flip the home/away sites. 

But it bears repeating...I don't think that Wabash can use the schedule as an excuse for getting blasted by good teams at the end of the year.  Wabash ought to be playing at a level that is good enough to beat DePauw or Wheaton or whoever every single week...regardless of who the opponent is.   Flipping the switch "on" in November isn't the answer.  The switch needs to be "on" from the jump. 

[aueagle]

.......We all had the conference "toughness" discussion over a year ago...
The end result, I thought, was that many of the programs in the NCAC need to step-up.
I don't think playing the UAA is helping most of us...other than fanning the flames of a merger of the two leagues.
Football is the 3W's and the rest. Hiram has made strides, the Gators need to come-back to the greatness they once had. The others need to decide if they want to make the investment into football.
I think the NCAC should go with OAC non-conference games after this UAA contract is done. That would give us a barometer and great smack talk with our bras over at the OAC.
We are a good conference....not great...we need to be better.

[bashbrother]

Wally -

Who is using it as an excuse???   Just saying it is not the greatest way to prepare your team for battle.
That is all....nothing more... nothing less.

It is what it is.... We need to get better...period.

ER has the experience and with the backing that we have from the School..... we will get there.

[wally_wabash]

Wally -

Who is using it as an excuse???   Just saying it is not the greatest way to prepare your team for battle.
That is all....nothing more... nothing less.

I may have been too harsh there bashbro...I guess my angle on this is that our schedule is what it is and our schedule isn't changing for the foreseeable future (we're tied into this UAA thing for the long haul I'm afraid).  Most of the schools that are on Wabash's schedule aren't going to get meaningfully better any time soon (Hiram is a lot better today than they were a year ago, but they still lost 7 games against a soft schedule).  Wabash will need to handle their own here.  Hopefully the NCAC gets better.  But that isn't really isn't imminent. 

[bashbrother]

Agree Wally...... we have to play the hand we have been dealt.   We will be fine.

Well, heading into 2009,  Holter and Wooster should be better and a healthy Witt will be right there as well. (is Huffman eligible for a medical redshirt?)

Great Season....tough, that it is over.

[wally_wabash]

Wooster and Wittenberg will be better for sure.  But I think we can agree that there is no satisfaction in C'ville...there's definitely room to improve and our guys will be pressing to do better in 2009.  I don't think 2008 was a highwater mark...the tide is still rising.   

[aueagle]

Men of Wabash....Like Dick Nixon....You don't have OWU to kick around anymore...
WHY...Because not only didn't we play against you in 2008...but, we WON'T in 2009 either.
The Bishops haven't helped our conference status by NOT winning a non-conference game in 3 years (won 2 in last 4 yrs).
I think I saw a Wis or Minn D3 school play a D2 as part of their non-conference.
That AD & Head Coach sure have a pair for doing that.

[bashbrother]

Aueagle -

Your Bishops will be back.... they just need to find a direction.   Actually missed having OWU on the schedule this year, they always played Wabash tough it seemed.

Good luck in recruiting and getting things on the right track over in Delaware.  I am sure there is talent there, just need to get it focused.

May need a change or direction.... West Coast Offense anyone?

[Li'l Giant]

Wally:

I don't think we have meant that the schedule was the reason Wabash's season ended the way it did. But I think it's worthy of discussion and it is something we ideally would want to improve. Until we get the albatross off our non-conference neck it's all academic.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Men of Wabash....Like Dick Nixon....You don't have OWU to kick around anymore...
WHY...Because not only didn't we play against you in 2008...but, we WON'T in 2009 either.
The Bishops haven't helped our conference status by NOT winning a non-conference game in 3 years (won 2 in last 4 yrs).
I think I saw a Wis or Minn D3 school play a D2 as part of their non-conference.
That AD & Head Coach sure have a pair for doing that.

In both 2006 and 2007 there were 15 games between d3 and d2 teams (the 'good' guys won 5 in 2006, 3 in 2007).  I've put in a request on the appropriate thread of the 'general football' board for someone to tally 2008 (the thread seems to have gone semi-kaput this year, but d3 Adrian beat (provisional?) d2 Lake Erie - not sure on other games.