FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[formerd3db]

Fightin'Scot and Mr. Ypsi:

Good comments.  Although I think we've all pretty much covered the topic well for all potential scenarios, I will just add the following.  I agree with you that if a student-athlete was taking a very easy schedule for their "5th year semester" due to a medical redshirt, then the DIII colleges are right to not offer the same % or amount of academic financial aid that they did for that student during their regular four years (of course, I mean this in regards to the school being in compliance with the NCAA rules/regulations concerning that as you have mentioned).  While I do not doubt that it does happen that a student-athlete would take an extremely easy class load for that last 5th yr semester as you've mentioned in an example, I will say that, at least in my experience, that is very uncommon.  The people who I have seen having to take that 5 year have not had easy classloads whatsoever and that has not been their fault, but rather, as Mr Ypsi pointed out, a fault of the system in classes in their degree curriculum not being available and/or non-synchronized time slots, etc.  Furthermore, that scenario came to be in some instances because a class "here and there" had to be dropped or rescheduled in past years due to other conflicts and/or necessary rearrangements (I think you guys get my point about this).  So in that situation, the financial aid (IMO) should be covered to the limits if allowed by the NCAA.  The school should comply also with that - if only for the reason that it is not a large number of student-athletes that this occurs for at any one time, but rather those isolated one or two cases.  That is not going to break the school.  Yet, as you have mentioned, that is a school's choice it appears.

Also, Mr. Ypsi, I totally understand your choice, opinion and perogative in relating to your kids that they get only 4 years of $ for their degree.  Certainly many parents do that and in many cases, that is only what they can afford.  On the other hand, it has always been my philosophy that I promised my kids a college degree if they wanted it and would honor that commitment to the end - obviously so long as they gave 100% effort and were making legitimate progress towards their degree and within reason (i.e. certainly I would not be paying for the 6-7 year plan if a kid was slacking. 

However, we are not talking about that kind of scenario here but rather the legitimate occasional situation where someone was injured, wanted to get their "4th year" of eligibility in conjuction with trying to complete their degree which for whatever reason (again curriculum/class availability, delays, etc) required them to do that for a 5th yr semester even if they had already used up their 4 full years of eligibility.  Anyway, I think we've covered it all    

[BashBacker#16]

Someone asked about the Center position at Wabash for next season...obviously it is still very early but one name that I have heard is Chris Daniel (current Frosh).  He's listed at 6'5 297 out of Perry Meridian.  If he does win the job, can you imagine the size along with Morris (6'6 300) and Tokar (6'6 310)?  That is crazy.

[zed07]

Thanks for the info on the potential man in the middle of the OL.  They're huge!  And the smallest potential starter (Morrison) is probably the strongest player on the team.  He can squat a house (or even a Coach House!).

[raiderguy]

Am I missing something here. Why should it matter how long it takes for an athlete to get his degree? Red shirts or not?

I know of a certain senior on campus who is completing his requirements for his degree who happens to be in the NFL. Anything wrong with that? Graduation is the key here in my opinion.

[wally_wabash]

I think what's being confused here is that a student's status of being an athlete or not doesn't matter when it comes to aid policies.  The monies given by the College to assist students in completing their education is substantial and comes with the stipulation that you should be able to complete your degree in eight semesters.  This is completely fair and completely doable.  The College isn't slamming the door on kids that don't finish in four years and the College isn't telling anybody that they can't play a sport during any semester beyond that eighth semester in which said students are enrolled.  The only thing the College is saying is that the scholarship money won't be there after eight semesters...which, again, I see as being a completely fair agreement. 

I'll also reiterate that this was my understanding of the aid policies when I was a student many years ago now...I don't have intimate knowledge of the current aid policies, but I don't think that this would have changed much if at all. 

[formerd3db]

I think what's being confused here is that a student's status of being an athlete or not doesn't matter when it comes to aid policies.  The monies given by the College to assist students in completing their education is substantial and comes with the stipulation that you should be able to complete your degree in eight semesters.  This is completely fair and completely doable.  The College isn't slamming the door on kids that don't finish in four years and the College isn't telling anybody that they can't play a sport during any semester beyond that eighth semester in which said students are enrolled.  The only thing the College is saying is that the scholarship money won't be there after eight semesters...which, again, I see as being a completely fair agreement. 

I'll also reiterate that this was my understanding of the aid policies when I was a student many years ago now...I don't have intimate knowledge of the current aid policies, but I don't think that this would have changed much if at all. 

wally:

I agree with you in all except that again, I do not belive that it is right or fair for a college to not provide that financial aid to any student-athlete beyond the 8 semesters if the situation is such that their degree requirements do not allow that student-athlete to complete his/her degree within the traditional 8 semester time-frame, again due to the injury situation as we have been discussing.  For sure, those very occasional situations have and do occur.  That being said, I will reiterate I also agree that it is obviously a college's right to decide if they do not wish to provide that aid in such situations, however, that doesn't make it right or fair.  No one can say, truthfully, the latter is not a legitimate argument.  Nonetheless, the colleges will do as they please.  Perhaps I am the "single wing" out on a limb here, yet that again just my personal opinion.  

[LGHistorian]

     This is definitely a FWIW comment but I can say from a personal experience I was  allowed a little additional financial aid as I needed a 9th semester at Wabash to complete my degree.  I was not a medical redshirt nor an athlete looking at one more season of eligibility.  My situation was that I had changed majors between my sophomore and junior years and needed the extra semester to get enough credits to graduate.  I remember the FA Director questioned me when I turned in the form what I was doing and when I explained to him that I was not going to graduate on time and needed to take classes the following year to finish. He still accepted the form but he didn't exactly give me confidence that I was going to receive any aid and I certainly was prepared to get rejected.  But, I do remember getting a little help from somewhere.
     And I also remember that my FA package got smaller every semester anyway since I was not on any of the available Wabash scholarships at that time.  I must also point out that this was back in the late '70s when Wabash was not getting a thousand applications and wasn't anywhere close to having to limit the size of the Freshman class.
     One last thing, I am sorry if this was mentioned earlier, I know there are Wabash Seniors preparing to go into teaching that need a 9th semester to graduate because they spend one of the sememsters during their Senior year practice teaching.  I wouldn't think Wabash or any college would deny FA in this situation.

[wabco]

I may be incorrect, but I believe I remember reading that the 9th semester directed toward obtaining the teaching credits and experience necessary for compliance with secondary teaching requirements is tuition free. 

The Wabash focus is for the student to obtain a "hard" major / minor and then go on to "salt in" the teaching requirements rather than be an "education major" with teaching requirements replacing / in stead of "hard" core major / minor courses (as is true in many/most other schools).  Also, no PE majors for obvious reasons ... that is for what God made Ball State or DePauw.

[DPU3619]

That's the best you've got?  I boo that joke.  Just not funny.  Not original, creative, or exciting.  Very bland.  Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.  I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Pat Coleman]

That's the best you've got?  I boo that comeback.  Just not funny.  Not original, creative, or exciting.  Very bland.  Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.  I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[DPU3619]

Oh come on.  At least mine had a movie quote in it!  Thought the Ball St/DePauw comparison was a little lackluster.  Just sayin'.  Could have at least made a joke about my sportscar or my sweatervest or something...

[cave2bens]

Thought the Ball St/DePauw comparison was a little lackluster.  Just sayin'.  Could have at least made a joke about my sportscar or my sweatervest or something...

Only if a canary Miata and you're sporting a "Charlie Brown" old gold/black argyle, look, Wes.    This from a Neanderthal with a '62 Chevelle in the garage, awaiting an EMP attack.  "Radiation - I'm sick of the talk of it."

Coulda been less funny - it was Ball U and not Sycamore Nation. 

[Ryder16]

As far as the 9th semester of eligibility in one of the cases at Wooster which started the discussion, It is my understanding Josh Clark withdrew when he came down with his illness, which hospitalized him for weeks, not allowing him the opportunity to continue his class work, thus, although his classmates would be in their 9th semester at this time, he is only officially in his 8th semester, and the wide reciever it is my understanding he had a small misunderstanding with his adviser when he came in as a freshmen, and was advised to take some of the wrong classes, therefore leaving him with some serious classes to take to finish his major.

[smedindy]

Regarding the construction of new athletics facilities:

The sad fact of the matter is that endowments are down across the board and major giving is very slow at many places. Many schools are cutting staff, freezing salaries, dropping academic programs and generally acting in a reactive mode. And since many endowments are on a three-year or five-year rolling average for spending, the effects of this economy will be felt in 2010 and 2011.

All things being equal, I'd like to see my money go for scholarships than artificial turf if I had to choose.

[Backer25]

is there a conference shake up about to happen?